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  1. #76
    --- SAtown's Avatar
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    This should be a great match to watch. It'll be wide open because I don't think Germany will allow for a slow tempo game, and I think that'll give Messi plenty of opportunities to shine on the biggest stage.

    In any case, congrats ST Argies and Germans, must feel good to see your country in a wc final, especially at Maracana.

    Robben
    Brazil

  2. #77
    Veteran pookenstein's Avatar
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    In any case, congrats ST Argies and Germans, must feel good to see your country in a wc final, especially at Maracana.


    Now get it on, Argie.

  3. #78
    The Defense doesn't rest Manu'sMagicalLeftHand's Avatar
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    1) Germany aside from their level advantage have an even bigger one with the extra day of rest and Argentina playing extra-time + Germany didn't need to play at full strength anymore in the second half as the game was already decided after 30 minutes.
    Yes, that is what happens when you play scrubs from the weakest team in the Americas tbh. Anyone from USA to Honduras would've been a harder opponent than the Sideshow Bobs.

  4. #79
    Just like against Netherlands and Belgium, if Argentina stays organized on defence we got this. We just need to reach the 30 minute mark 0-0 and the game is ours.
    Who would've thought that argentina, with the best forwards in the world and mediocre defenders (on a good day), would end up being such a defensive team?

  5. #80
    Spur Forever urunobili's Avatar
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    1) Germany aside from their level advantage have an even bigger one with the extra day of rest and Argentina playing extra-time + Germany didn't need to play at full strength anymore in the second half as the game was already decided after 30 minutes.
    Argentina had their first test last game vs. the Netherlands. Until then, it was all an easy path to Semi's tbh. With Germany having survived one of the death groups, I think it evens out.

  6. #81
    Rubber Dinghy Rapids Bro Muser's Avatar
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    Are Argentina one of the most unconvincing finalists ever? None of their performances so far have been great, and at points they've been extremely lucky.

    I'm pulling for them because I want to see Messi win, only for the Messi needs to win a WC to be placed with Pele brigade to shut up.

  7. #82
    Believe.
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    Amazing flop by Voller. And klinsmann had his own nice flop in that Monzon red card. The funny part is that they didn't even need to flop given the fact that the match was rigged and Codesal was handing the cup to Germany.
    In the beginning let me say that I moved my answer from the ARG-NED thread into this one as it's about the final.

    Well, I already knew that these issues would be brought up again after yesterday's win against the Netherlands. I will now write my opinion about the mentioned incidents, but nothing more. I don't think that there will be any fruitful discusssion about it, the points of view from German and Argentinean fans about it are just too different. I understand and accept that, but I have heavy doubts that a discussion about it on this board will change anything. IIRC we had such a discussion already back in 2010 and the viewpoints didn't change at all. Again, this will be my only post regarding these issues.

    Firstly, I will describe my thoughts about the incident with Klinsmann and Monzon.

    Here is the video of the -> INCIDENT.

    First of all, I will definitely give you that Klinsmann has his fair share for sure of letting this incident in such a bad memory. Were Klinsmann's subsequent theatrics after the tackle obviously exaggerated? Yes, they were. No question. We all know that Klinsmann was a theatrical princess, however that challenge was just nasty. Monzon had no chance at all to reach the ball. Klinsmann had already kicked the ball to the side before the defender even goes to ground, and then the defender kicks his leg out and up clearly aimed for Klinsmann's shin; the ball was long gone and Monzon knew it. Dirty tackle with a malicious intent. He was nowhere near the ball.

    Monzon then hit Klinsmann's leg. You may see clearly on 0:46 - 0:48. Honestly, I have even problems to call that a "tackle". That wasn't an attempt for the ball, it was an attempt to send him into the hospital for several months if the leg had been broken. To cut it short, it was a high, outstretched leg and cleats up challenge that made contact with Klinsmann's right leg. Klinsmann did flop around dramatically, yes, but that is a foul and a red card to anyone who knows jack about soccer, despite all the theatrics by the German player. Exaggerated fall and red card worthy foul. Both sides of the coin are true. You simply cannot challenge like that.

    Even if you think there was still no contact, it was then the successfully attempt of Klinsmann to avoid a broken leg. A tackle with an outstretched leg and cleats up is a straight red (feel free to read up the FIFA instructions). So, the card was justified. If Klinsmann had gotten a yellow for exaggerating the contact, fine with me, but that doesn't change the correct card for Monzon.

    On that second red against Dezotti: It was also the correct call. Yes, it was an unsportsmanlike play by Jürgen Kohler (attempt to waste time), but Dezotti threw him down by the neck. If you clothesline someone, you've got to go. That was nothing but a violent conduct. Kohler should have seen yellow here, though. Dezotti already had a yellow card earlier in the game. So, even if you give Dezotti a yellow for it, he would have been sent off as it was his second. Back in 1990 there wasn't a yellow-red card. A second yellow resulted in a straight red back then.

    So, the 2 red cards were correct calls and honestly, I am quite sure that no Argentinean fan in the world would have complained one second if it had been the other way round.

    The penaly for Germany though was wrong. You might argue that it could have been called outside the box, but honestly, I don't think even then. Völler dived and there was no need to call that. However, there two scenes earlier in the game in which a penalty should have been awarded (one for each team). For Argentina, a clear penalty was not given after Serrizuela (I think it was him) got fouled by Buchwald (not sure, might have been Brehme as well, don't remember). Clear peno. On the other side Goycochea jammed Augenthaler's leg between his legs (around the 60th minute) and that was also a definite peno. Neither was given. I know from that earlier discussion 4 years ago that some Argentinean fans in here still didn't think that the incident with Augenthaler was a peno. For me it was one and that's also visible on the available videos. There was one other short video on youtube displaying not the whole game, but only this particular scene with a different camera angle. On that one it was 100% clear that Augenthaler got fouled. Unfortunately it got removed from youtube. Would have loved to link it here if it had been still around.

    To restate my roundup of this game: I think that the German and Argentinean fans have different views about this game, which is absolutely understandable given the high value of it. It was there WC final, it doesn't get any higher than this. I wish for a fair game on Sunday without any doubtful scenes, so that there won't be any ongoing discussions whether one team got an undeserved win, respectively a win based on a wrong decision by the ref. May the better team win.
    Last edited by Sportstudi; 07-10-2014 at 10:52 AM.

  8. #83
    Ur a fkn wanker Venti Quattro's Avatar
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    Are Argentina one of the most unconvincing finalists ever?
    Messi hasn't looked Messianic at all in the KO stages. But if Lolland did clinch the final berth they would have the tag of most unconvincing finalist. Fact is Germany skewered everything when they killed Brazil at Belo Horizonte.

  9. #84
    In the beginning let me say that I moved my answer from the ARG-NED thread into this one as it's about the final.

    Well, I already knew that these issues would be brought up again after yesterday's win against the Netherlands. I will now write my opinion about the mentioned incidents, but nothing more. I don't think that there will be any fruitful discusssion about it, the points of view from German and Argentinean fans about it are just too different. I understand and accept that, but I have heavy doubts that a discussion about it on this board will change anything. IIRC we had such a discussion already back in 2010 and the viewpoints didn't change at all. Again, this will be my only post regarding these issues.

    Firstly, I will describe my thoughts about the incident with Klinsmann and Monzon.

    Here is the video of the -> INCIDENT.

    First of all, I will definitely give you that Klinsmann has his fair share for sure of letting this incident in such a bad memory. Were Klinsmann's subsequent theatrics after the tackle obviously exaggerated? Yes, they were. No question. We all know that Klinsmann was a theatrical princess, however that challenge was just nasty. Monzon had no chance at all to reach the ball. Klinsmann had already kicked the ball to the side before the defender even goes to ground, and then the defender kicks his leg out and up clearly aimed for Klinsmann's shin; the ball was long gone and Monzon knew it. Dirty tackle with a malicious intent. He was nowhere near the ball.

    Monzon then hit Klinsmann's leg. You may see clearly on 0:46 - 0:48. Honestly, I have even problems to call that a "tackle". That wasn't an attempt for the ball, it was an attempt to send him into the hospital for several months if the leg had been broken. To cut it short, it was a high, outstretched leg and cleats up challenge that made contact with Klinsmann's right leg. Klinsmann did flop around dramatically, yes, but that is a foul and a red card to anyone who knows jack about soccer, despite all the theatrics by the German player. Exaggerated fall and red card worthy foul. Both sides of the coin are true. You simply cannot challenge like that.

    Even if you think there was still no contact, it was then the successfully attempt of Klinsmann to avoid a broken leg. A tackle with an outstretched leg and cleats up is a straight red (feel free to read up the FIFA instructions). So, the card was justified. If Klinsmann had gotten a yellow for exaggerating the contact, fine with me, but that doesn't change the correct card for Monzon.

    On that second red against Dezotti: It was also the correct call. Yes, it was an unsportsmanlike play by Jürgen Kohler (attempt to waste time), but Dezotti threw him down by the neck. If you clothesline someone, you've got to go. That was nothing but a violent conduct. Kohler should have seen yellow here, though. Dezotti already had a yellow card earlier in the game. So, even if you give Dezotti a yellow for it, he would have been sent off as it was his second. Back in 1990 there wasn't a yellow-red card. A second yellow resulted in a straight red back then.

    So, the 2 red cards were correct calls and honestly, I am quite sure that no Argentinean fan in the world would have complained one second if it had been the other way round.

    The penaly for Germany though was wrong. You might argue that it could have been called outside the box, but honestly, I don't think even then. Völler dived and there was no need to call that. However, there two scenes earlier in the game in which a penalty should have been awarded (one for each team). For Argentina, a clear penalty was not given after Serrizuela (I think it was him) got fouled by Buchwald (not sure, might have been Brehme as well, don't remember). Clear peno. On the other side Goycochea jammed Augenthaler's leg between his legs (around the 60th minute) and that was also a definite peno. Neither was given. I know from that earlier discussion 4 years ago that some Argentinean fans in here still didn't think that the incident with Augenthaler was a peno. For me it was one and that's also visible on the available videos. There was one other short video on youtube displaying not the whole game, but only this particular scene with a different camera angle. On that one it was 100% clear that Augenthaler got fouled. Unfortunately it got removed from youtube. Would have loved to link it here if it had been still around.

    To restate my roundup of this game: I think that the German and Argentinean fans have different views about this game, which is absolutely understandable given the high value of it. It was there WC final, it doesn't get any higher than this. I wish for a fair game on Sunday without any doubtful scenes, so that there won't be any ongoing discussions whether one team got an undeserved win, respectively a win based on a wrong decision by the ref. May the better team win.
    To me the klinsmann foul is a yellow. If it wasn't for the theatrics displayed be Klinsmann flying through the air like a bird ala Robben, hitting the ground and, not being happy with the flop yet, made that weird thing at the end with his legs... and the crying... if it wasn't for that over-reaction any credible referee would've given Monzon a yellow card. Like you said, nothing's gonna change the outcome of that game, so there's no point arguing about it. I just hope Muller doesn't try any flop.

  10. #85
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    I love this matchup


    Some people are saying that i t would have ben better if we Germany vs Holland but I prefer Germany vs Argies because those teams are so different

    It's gona be a fantastic match imo

  11. #86
    CDs Nuts. resistanze's Avatar
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    Spain won the WC by winning 1-0 every game in the KO stage.

  12. #87
    Veteran
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    Rumours coming up that Eriksson is/could be the referee.

  13. #88
    Veteran hater's Avatar
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    thinking Messi will put on a show. Germany is probably best team at defending the midget

    thinking this is going to be a great game this is going to be a boring game as Germany will put the midgets on lock down

    I'll be rooting for argentina but they have about a 20% chance of not getting anihiliated

  14. #89
    There is no way Webber is the referee. An english in an argentine final match??? I'm hoping it's the italian guy, Rizolli is it? The worst referee would be the spaniard.

  15. #90
    Believe.
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    There is no way Webber is the referee. An english in an argentine final match??? I'm hoping it's the italian guy, Rizolli is it? The worst referee would be the spaniard.
    His name is Webb.

  16. #91
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    The game is on Sunday. Pretty sure Argentina and Germany are both gonna get adequate rest so I don't get why these pundits are saying that Argentina is gonna come into the game fatigued. The Germans just have an extra day to Brazilian es, that's all.
    120 minutes + penalties one day later after the other team played a glorofied training match is a huge disadvantage. Specially after 7 games in little more than 20 days.

    The more I think about it I just don't see how Argentina can pull this one. Remember that their 2nd and 3rd best player on paper are injured (Di Maria and Aguero). Added to the fact that 90% of the stadium will be against them and that Germany would still be the better side on equal terms and there's just no chance. It would take a massive choke job from the Germans, tbh.

  17. #92
    Believe.
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    120 minutes + penalties one day later after the other team played a glorofied training match is a huge disadvantage. Specially after 7 games in little more than 20 days.

    The more I think about it I just don't see how Argentina can pull this one. Remember that their 2nd and 3rd best player on paper are injured (Di Maria and Aguero). Added to the fact that 90% of the stadium will be against them and that Germany would still be the better side on equal terms and there's just no chance. It would take a massive choke job from the Germans, tbh.
    What's up with Agüero?

  18. #93
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Are Argentina one of the most unconvincing finalists ever? None of their performances so far have been great, and at points they've been extremely lucky.

    I'm pulling for them because I want to see Messi win, only for the Messi needs to win a WC to be placed with Pele brigade to shut up.
    1990 Argentina comes to mind. Actually that team is clearly worse than this one by a distance. This team at least won every match of the WC untill the one against Holland.

    Usually the teams that end up on the final are teams that don't do so great on the group stage, you rarely see a team that breezes through the group stage getting to the final. That's why I was so calm when Argentina started shaky and everybody was freaking out.

  19. #94
    Believe.
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    1990 Argentina comes to mind. Actually that team is clearly worse than this one by a distance. This team at least won every match of the WC untill the one against Holland.

    Usually the teams that end up on the final are teams that don't do so great on the group stage, you rarely see a team that breezes through the group stage getting to the final. That's why I was so calm when Argentina started shaky and everybody was freaking out.
    That's why I wasn't convinced with Holland. They were great during group stage, but it's important to peak at the right time. The Netherlands peaked too early. Great in the group stage, looking pretty average in the elimination rounds. Had huge luck to get past Mexico, needed penalty shootout against Costa Rica. And vs. your team they were far away from being good.

  20. #95
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    What's up with Agüero?
    He tore a muscle during this WC, he's available but nowhere near his actual form. When he came in against Holland he was the worst player on the pitch.

  21. #96
    lol yes. The bald guy.

  22. #97
    Believe.
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    He tore a muscle during this WC, he's available but nowhere near his actual form. When he came in against Holland he was the worst player on the pitch.
    True. I recall thinking why he was so slow, lacking basically every bit of energy he's known for.

  23. #98
    Believe.
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    lol yes. The bald guy.
    He has been decent though thus far. But I can understand why you don't want him as th ref -> Islas Malvinas...

  24. #99
    Even before that injury you could see Aguero was fat and slow. Now he's fat, slow, clumsy with the ball and afraid of getting injured again.

  25. #100
    He has been decent though thus far. But I can understand why you don't want him as th ref -> Islas Malvinas...
    yup. Not only that but the hand of god. Imagine if your team scores a hand goal!!!!

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