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  1. #26
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    favorites in east or the hole thing?

  2. #27
    Dyna5ty BatManu20's Avatar
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    Cavs summer-league team about to play on NBATV. Wiggins suited up and ready to go so obviously nothing is imminent at this point.

  3. #28
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    james afraid to lead a team with youngster by himself
    AFRAID OF FAILURE
    afraid of the long process a year or two longer without love in the weak east
    Cavs would still be incredibly young. Kyrie/Waiters/Thompson are very young. Love is only 25. It's a good blend of young and experience which is what you need to make the jump. On value alone, it's hard to say Wiggins ever becomes the player Love is. He could, but if you can essentially guarantee your #1 pick turning out to be as good as Love, IMO you do that.

    If it doesn't work, he's extremely tradeable. If he works, you have a young legit number two option to go with James and plenty of young guys to sustain (Kyrie, Waiters, Thompson). Plus they have plenty of draft picks to add cheap talent:

    2015 first round draft pick from Memphis

    Memphis' 1st round pick to Cleveland protected for selections 1-5 and 15-30 in 2015, 1-5 and 15-30 in 2016, 1-5 in 2017 or 1-5 in 2018 or unprotected in 2019 [Cleveland-Memphis, 1/22/2013]

    2015 first round draft pick from Miami

    Miami's 1st round pick to Cleveland protected for selections 1-10 in 2015 or 1-10 in 2016 or unprotected in 2017 [Cleveland-Miami, 7/9/2010]

    2015 second round draft pick from Boston

    Boston's 2015 2nd round pick to Cleveland protected for selections 31-55 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Boston's obligation to Cleveland will be extinguished) [Boston-Brooklyn-Cleveland, 7/10/2014]

    2016 second round draft pick from L.A. Clippers

    L.A. Clippers' 2016 2nd round pick to Cleveland (via New Orleans) protected for selections 31-55 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then the L.A. Clippers' obligation to Cleveland will be extinguished) [L.A. Clippers-New Orleans, 8/12/2009 and then Cleveland-New Orleans, 7/11/2014]
    Eventually, IMO having too many young good players is a problem (due to being able to keep them/pay them, trade them (with low contract values while getting good return) - especially when the goal is to make the jump from potential to contender. Love talent wise is a guarantee and while Wiggins in theory is a great fit with Lebron/Cavs, it's no guarantee.

  4. #29
    My Favorite Faded Fantasy The Gemini Method's Avatar
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    What long term consequences? They got their prodigal son back and are trying to bring in a 2nd superstar to couple with the best player in the world and a rising PG. That's ensuring the future. Im not sold on Wiggins but if you think he's going to be anything more than an occasional all-star then I stand corrected. I don't see him being a superstar or HoF type player. If he becomes that then Cleveland would be at fault.

  5. #30
    Dyna5ty BatManu20's Avatar
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    Lebron has made it apparent that he wants K. Love in Cleveland. That's all that really needs to be said at this point tbh. The Cavs are going to make this trade happen.

  6. #31
    you are a faggot Phillip's Avatar
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    Cavs would still be incredibly young. Kyrie/Waiters/Thompson are very young. Love is only 25. It's a good blend of young and experience which is what you need to make the jump. On value alone, it's hard to say Wiggins ever becomes the player Love is. He could, but if you can essentially guarantee your #1 pick turning out to be as good as Love, IMO you do that.

    If it doesn't work, he's extremely tradeable. If he works, you have a young legit number two option to go with James and plenty of young guys to sustain (Kyrie, Waiters, Thompson). Plus they have plenty of draft picks to add cheap talent:



    Eventually, IMO having too many young good players is a problem (due to being able to keep them/pay them, trade them (with low contract values while getting good return) - especially when the goal is to make the jump from potential to contender. Love talent wise is a guarantee and while Wiggins in theory is a great fit with Lebron/Cavs, it's no guarantee.
    Well put.

    Whatever choice they make, they should be fine. Making the trade probably guarantees more instant success, while keeping put is a more higher risk/higher reward decision.

  7. #32
    Board Man Comes Home Clipper Nation's Avatar
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    ing re ed move by the Cavs, they're clearly still the dumbasses they were when LeBron left.... this is why Kang needed to force his way to the Clippers

  8. #33
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    I'd hold on to Wiggins for now. Love is great but the Cavs will probably get the same production from Thompson, Waiters and Bennett. These kids' stock will rise once they play with Lebron. Develop the younger guys for the first half of the season and if Love is still available use them as trade chips. Wiggins has way too much potential to be traded for a one dimensional player.



    The Cavs are in the driver seat, not the Wolves.
    Even if you believe that, Cavs aren't giving up Thompson in the deal reported. So do you think that Bennet/Wiggins is going to give them the same production as Love/Brewer/Kevin Martin? If you are talking about value, sure, this puts CLE is some serious cap over the next two years, but they will be young and legit contenders with a lot of tradeable players (Kyrie, Waiters, Love ect..).

    Depth is critical in the NBA. This gets CLE more top tier talent (Love), vets and depth (Brewer/Martin). Bennett may improve, but he looked historically bad so far. So really, the only thing that seems likely to suck giving up is Wiggins/1st rounder.

  9. #34
    Believe. Mr Bones's Avatar
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    I agree that Love has some liabilities-- mainly on the defensive end, and largely having to do with effort-- but calling him a "one dimensional" player is kinda ridiculous. He can score inside and out, he's a great rebounder, a great outlet passer, and a good passer generally. There's no way anyone can honestly say he's one-dimensional.

  10. #35
    Dyna5ty BatManu20's Avatar
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    I agree that Love has some liabilities-- mainly on the defensive end, and largely having to do with effort-- but calling him a "one dimensional" player is kinda ridiculous. He can score inside and out, he's a great rebounder, a great outlet passer, and a good passer generally. There's no way anyone can honestly say he's one-dimensional.
    Offensively, Love is the total package at the PF position.

    And what also has to be taken into account here is he's going to be even better playing with Lebron (as are all Lebron's teammates). But that's a perfect fit for Love and instantly makes CLE better.

  11. #36
    R.C. Deez Nuts. Mugen's Avatar
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    Wiggins isn't even in Cleveland if Embiid doesn't get hurt. It's a no-brainer for the Cavs...

  12. #37
    Rum and Coke SupremeGuy's Avatar
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    Seeing either the Warriors or Cavs shoot themselves in the foot for Kevin Love is going to bring me the lulz... Wonder who it will be?

  13. #38
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    The only way this blows up in CLE's face is if Wiggins turns into a legit superstar (talking a legit top 3 option on a playoff team) AND Love completely doesn't fit with CLE and makes a scene/leaves. That seems (with what we know currently) a highly unlikely scenario.

    I also don't get the entire argument of "Bosh was negated with Lebron". While true numbers wise, that limitation of Bosh did not result in anything negative. It resulted in MIA having the best 3rd option in the league and going to 4 straight finals. While Bosh is a better fit with MIA than Love is with CLE (due to Bosh being a solid defender and that being a need) I don't see Love coming preventing results (even if Love's numbers dip some because of usage rate dipping).

    It's a legit concern about defense with that CLE squad, but the offense should be unreal. Like the Spurs shifting (although I think the Spurs defense over the last 3 years will be better than CLE's) from defense to offense, I think CLE's offense will offset the defense enough to advance very far if healthy.

    Plus, if they can trade for or get surprising help with a cheap FA on defense, that could change quickly.

  14. #39
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Early reports are saying Wiggins, Bennett, and a 1st rounder for Love, Corey Brewer, and Kevin Martin.

    That is highway robbery for the Wolves if true. Don't think it is though.
    That deal is not even close to possible. It's something like $4 Million out and $25 Million in. And Cleveland doesn't really have spare salary to send anymore.

  15. #40
    Transition 3 Willbreaker Captivus's Avatar
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    Cavs management has never been particularly bright. They are so insecure about Lebron leaving that they pull the trigger on any trade without thinking about long term consequences.
    Agree. They are probably thinking Wiggins will leave ASAP...so...

    Regardless...that team will be fun to watch.

  16. #41
    808s & Heartbreak Kool Bob Love's Avatar
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    ing re ed move by the Cavs, they're clearly still the dumbasses they were when LeBron left.... this is why Kang needed to force his way to the Clippers
    This is Lebron's doing. He can't take a rook under his wing and make him great, that's reserved for the Duncan's of the world.

  17. #42
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    sorry spurs beat cavs 4 out of 5 times

  18. #43
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    This is Lebron's doing. He can't take a rook under his wing and make him great, that's reserved for the Duncan's of the world.
    People don't want to admit it, but a big reason why Cleveland's roster sucked those years was because they let James call the shots. GMs need to ignore their players when it comes to roster moves.

  19. #44
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    amazing no one has seen this team play together and they since they have james they will win the hole thing when he is batting .500 in the finals

  20. #45
    Veteran jimbo's Avatar
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    Early reports are saying Wiggins, Bennett, and a 1st rounder for Love, Corey Brewer, and Kevin Martin.

    That is highway robbery for the Wolves if true. Don't think it is though.
    Salaries aren't even close to matching up in that, and the Cavs don't have anyone to add that would make it close.

    Benett = 5.563 Mil
    Wiggins = I don't know if he's been signed yet, but probably around the same

    vs

    Love = 15.7
    Martin = 6.8
    Brewer = 4.7

    Without getting another team involved, the Cavs-Wolves trade difference would have to be under 5 mil more going to Cleveland. (Ex: Cavs send 11, receive 16)

    There's no way the Cavs would be that stupid even if they did want Love. 2 days ago - "Wiggins is off the table", Today - "Not only is Wiggins back on the table, but we're willing to give you last year's 1st overall pick and another pick and take on all your expirings"

  21. #46
    Veteran jimbo's Avatar
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    ^ all disregarding that the Cavs shouldn't do Wiggins for Love too.

  22. #47
    Veteran jimbo's Avatar
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    amazing no one has seen this team play together and they since they have james they will win the hole thing when he is batting .500 in the finals
    I'd rather have a .01 record w/ in Victorias Secret models than have never gotten turned down by one tbh.

  23. #48
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    Even if you believe that, Cavs aren't giving up Thompson in the deal reported. So do you think that Bennet/Wiggins is going to give them the same production as Love/Brewer/Kevin Martin? If you are talking about value, sure, this puts CLE is some serious cap over the next two years, but they will be young and legit contenders with a lot of tradeable players (Kyrie, Waiters, Love ect..).

    Depth is critical in the NBA. This gets CLE more top tier talent (Love), vets and depth (Brewer/Martin). Bennett may improve, but he looked historically bad so far. So really, the only thing that seems likely to suck giving up is Wiggins/1st rounder.
    The proposed deal is different to what it was reported before. Adding Brewer and Martin obviously changes things as they are experienced players, critical to going deep in the playoffs.

    But ask yourself. Is Martin and Brewer the type of players you'd want on a team aspiring or building a championship team? A roster of Irving, Lebron and Waiters plus Kevin Love? This is a horrible defensive team. All players requires a high usage rate to be effective and none has any intention of playing defense, minus Lebron obviously.


    Nothing in this deal screams "improvement". It's a lateral move that puts the Cavs in cap while also losing the #1 pick of the draft.

    No deal IMO.

  24. #49
    Board Man Comes Home Clipper Nation's Avatar
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    I still don't get the hysteria over trading for Love.... the guy's a blatant stat-padder who refuses to play defense (not to mention a locker room cancer), are teams really that desperate for a "name"?

    I also love how the justification is that Wiggins is too young and inexperienced to be counted on in a championship window, as if Love has so much playoff experience under his belt

  25. #50
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    The proposed deal is different to what it was reported before. Adding Brewer and Martin obviously changes things as they are experienced players, critical to going deep in the playoffs.

    But ask yourself. Is Martin and Brewer the type of players you'd want on a team aspiring or building a championship team? A roster of Irving, Lebron and Waiters plus Kevin Love? This is a horrible defensive team. All players requires a high usage rate to be effective and none has any intention of playing defense, minus Lebron obviously.


    Nothing in this deal screams "improvement". It's a lateral move that puts the Cavs in cap while also losing the #1 pick of the draft.

    No deal IMO.
    Well you aren't the only one who thinks it's dumb to give up Wiggins for Love, but I respectfully disagree. I really don't see how you can say swapping an NBA Rookie for Kevin Love is lateral in terms of winning now.

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