Cavs: Reports: Cavs Now Offering Wiggins for K. Love; Trade Could Come Soon

**Random5843** · 07-19-2014

The only thing for sure is that everyone who goes to Minnesota will not improve. So in a couple of years you can safely say "I told you Wiggins was a bust".

**jimbo** · 07-19-2014

Originally Posted by TheCultOfPersonality

Thank you! I don't understand the Wiggins hype either.

The best power forward in the NBA who's not even in his prime yet vs. a project shooting guard/small forward who might turn out to be a bust. This is an easy decision here. You go with the best power forward in the NBA. The only dumb thing I can say that the Cavs did was waiting this long to include Wiggins in this deal in the first place. It's obvious that Love with LeBron gives the Cavs the best chance of winning a championship than LeBron with Project Wiggins.

Problem is, enjoy all your salary tied up in a borderline all star, Lebron and Love. That's not a championship winning team with min pieces around them. If you could get rid of Kyrie for some different pieces (which the Cavs will never do), it'd be a good trade. But I still think the Thunder have a better constructed team for the future than the Cavs if they ship off all their young talent (other than Kyrie/Love/Lebron).

I mean Bron/Love/Kyrie ain't better than Bron/Wade/Bosh for their first couple years. (esp not their first year together) Granted those guys won 2 les, but it wasn't until they got some good role players to join up with them for peanuts. I'd rather leave matters in my own hands tbh than have to beg players to play for the minimum.

Not to mention that team's defense would be

. I think Spurfan should hope that the Cavs get gutted in their trade for Love. IMO the Wiggins Cavs pose a bigger problem than the Love Cavs.

**Chinook** · 07-19-2014

The Spurs match up well with the Cavs not matter what they do. San Antonio has the best defensive personnel in the league (and it's not really close). They can guard anybody while also being able to keep five "live" guys (to borrow James' term) on the court at all times. Offensively, the Spurs showed they can no longer be shut down by taking Parker out of the game. I agree that Wiggins/James is a more intimidating defensive duo than James/Love is an offensive duo, but I don't think the Spurs have trouble with either one provided they remain at their current level.

**Michael Jordan.** · 07-19-2014

I can see why the Cavs wouldn't want to give up Wiggins for Love, but Golden State had no reason to not let go of Thompson.

**N0 LyF3 ScRuB** · 07-19-2014

Originally Posted by Michael Jordan.

I can see why the Cavs wouldn't want to give up Wiggins for Love, but Golden State had no reason to not let go of Thompson.

Yeah. Lee & Thompson should do it.

**jimbo** · 07-19-2014

Originally Posted by Chinook

The Spurs match up well with the Cavs not matter what they do. San Antonio has the best defensive personnel in the league (and it's not really close). They can guard anybody while also being able to keep five "live" guys (to borrow James' term) on the court at all times. Offensively, the Spurs showed they can no longer be shut down by taking Parker out of the game. I agree that Wiggins/James is a more intimidating defensive duo than James/Love is an offensive duo, but I don't think the Spurs have trouble with either one provided they remain at their current level.

I can't imagine Manu dominating Wiggins the way he beat up on Wade at times. Wiggins is going to be able to play the passing lanes pretty damn well with his length. Wade was always a shorter SG at 6'4. Wiggins is 6'8. Likewise, who is going to defend him regularly? He's 6'8 with crazy athleticism and can knock down a wide open jumper. (just to address the whole "sag off him like Rondo/LBJ" deal. He had problems with contested jumpers at Kansas when he settled--but who doesnt?)

The Spurs only have 1 elite perimeter defender in Kawhi. That wasn't a problem vs the Heat this year since they only had one really athletic player perimeter player in Lebron. What happens when they have 2-3? (Much like the '12 Thunder) I think that's when the Spurs players will finally show their age.

Tiago can play Love as well as anyone can which is why he's not nearly as much of a threat imo.

**Chinook** · 07-19-2014

Originally Posted by jimbo

I can't imagine Manu dominating Wiggins the way he beat up on Wade at times. Wiggins is going to be able to play the passing lanes pretty damn well with his length. Wade was always a shorter SG at 6'4. Wiggins is 6'8. Likewise, who is going to defend him regularly? He's 6'8 with crazy athleticism and can knock down a wide open jumper. (just to address the whole "sag off him like Rondo/LBJ" deal. He had problems with contested jumpers at Kansas when he settled--but who doesnt?)

The Spurs only have 1 elite perimeter defender in Kawhi. That wasn't a problem vs the Heat this year since they only had one really athletic player perimeter player in Lebron. What happens when they have 2-3? (Much like the '12 Thunder) I think that's when the Spurs players will finally show their age.

Tiago can play Love as well as anyone can which is why he's not nearly as much of a threat imo.

I disagree with a whole lot of what you just said. I'll just say I'm not worried about Wiggins' offense at all and leave it at that.

**jimbo** · 07-19-2014

Originally Posted by Chinook

I disagree with a whole lot of what you just said. I'll just say I'm not worried about Wiggins' offense at all and leave it at that.

You can't explain? Go ahead and put what you think'll happen on paper.

**Baam** · 07-19-2014

Blatt could be the difference between an easy win and an uncertain series, Carlisle gave the Spurs with ty defensive players (but a smart scheme) and great offense...

**apalisoc_9** · 07-19-2014

Originally Posted by jimbo

I can't imagine Manu dominating Wiggins the way he beat up on Wade at times. Wiggins is going to be able to play the passing lanes pretty damn well with his length. Wade was always a shorter SG at 6'4. Wiggins is 6'8. Likewise, who is going to defend him regularly? He's 6'8 with crazy athleticism and can knock down a wide open jumper. (just to address the whole "sag off him like Rondo/LBJ" deal. He had problems with contested jumpers at Kansas when he settled--but who doesnt?)

The Spurs only have 1 elite perimeter defender in Kawhi. That wasn't a problem vs the Heat this year since they only had one really athletic player perimeter player in Lebron. What happens when they have 2-3? (Much like the '12 Thunder) I think that's when the Spurs players will finally show their age.

Tiago can play Love as well as anyone can which is why he's not nearly as much of a threat imo.

One of the dumbest post.

- San Antonio has two elite perimeter defenders in Kawhi and Danny.

- Wiggin's J is suspect and only a bad team would leave a wide open man. Spurs is an elite defensive team both in terms of personel, and the ability to rotate.

- Manu is not going to dominate wiggins, he doesn't need to.

- Splitter/Bobo can cover up Love

- Danny can Guard Irving

- Kawhi on Lebron

**baseline bum** · 07-19-2014

Originally Posted by jimbo

I can't imagine Manu dominating Wiggins the way he beat up on Wade at times. Wiggins is going to be able to play the passing lanes pretty damn well with his length. Wade was always a shorter SG at 6'4. Wiggins is 6'8. Likewise, who is going to defend him regularly? He's 6'8 with crazy athleticism and can knock down a wide open jumper. (just to address the whole "sag off him like Rondo/LBJ" deal. He had problems with contested jumpers at Kansas when he settled--but who doesnt?)

The Spurs only have 1 elite perimeter defender in Kawhi. That wasn't a problem vs the Heat this year since they only had one really athletic player perimeter player in Lebron. What happens when they have 2-3? (Much like the '12 Thunder) I think that's when the Spurs players will finally show their age.

Tiago can play Love as well as anyone can which is why he's not nearly as much of a threat imo.

**spurraider21** · 07-19-2014

I think Chinook had an aneurysm at the "spurs only have 1 elite perimeter defender in Kawhi" thing

**jimbo** · 07-19-2014

Alright guys I ed up on that one. I legitimately forgot Danny Green existed when writing that post. (and every post I've made regarding the Spurs vs Wiggins Cavs)

He's definitely a guy that could force Wiggins into taking contested jumpers. But that then means there's no one to hide Parker on because of Kyrie. So it goes back to 2012 OKC vs the Spurs. I know a lot of y'all are gonna point to their big men hitting jumpers being the difference maker (and

refs

), but the Beard still did major work in that series. I still think Wiggins'll be better than him. Next year? Probably not. So do the Spurs have the edge in the series? Yeah--but I don't think it's a major one because of how high I am on Wiggins.

But going back to Wiggins vs Love in matchups. Forcing Parker to defend Irving is worse than Tiago on Love imo. Like I said, I still think Tiago is one of the better Love defenders in the league. I wouldn't be afraid of him in the least. Then we could sit Danny on Kyrie and Kawhi on Lebron. All good matchups for the Spurs. (Although I guess they would be running Waiters at SG in the Love matchup, and I have no clue how that'd go versus Parker)

Boiled down, I'm still giving the 2015 Cavs more of a chance against the Spurs than the 2014 Heat. The 2014 Heat matched up horribly with the Spurs. With Danny Green existing, the Spurs have a slight advantage in the matchup unless Wiggins shows some major improvements in his ballhandling. I think the Spurs stomp the Love Cavs.

Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

One of the dumbest post.

- San Antonio has two elite perimeter defenders in Kawhi and Danny.

- Wiggin's J is suspect and only a bad team would leave a wide open man. Spurs is an elite defensive team both in terms of personel, and the ability to rotate.

- Manu is not going to dominate wiggins, he doesn't need to.

- Splitter/Bobo can cover up Love

- Danny can Guard Irving

- Kawhi on Lebron

1) I forgot about Danny, yeah.

2) His J was only suspect when he got frustrated and would settle for contested jumpers. But like I said, who has a good jumper in that situation? The Spurs leave men wide open all the time when it's the best option... Ibaka/Perkins in 2012. Lebron in 2013. I'm sure there's more examples, but I can't think of em right now.

I was thinking they'd do it to Wiggins because they have no answer to him on defense. (Since Green didn't exist in my head when I was writing that post.)

IMO his ballhandling is more suspect than his jumper, that's something Danny would thrive on now that I think of it.

3) Well what other matchups do you win? Manu beating up on Wade was huge this year. I mean for all the hype Kawhi's getting, Manu was nearly as important & Dwyane Wade's athleticism was a big part of that.

4) Agreed

5) Guess that leaves Waiters on Parker? (If we're talking about the Love Cavs) I haven't watched him enough to comment on that tbh.

^) I still don't think Kawhi's defense was anything spectacular on Lebron. He still put up good numbers on Kawhi. It was Kawhi's breakout offense that won him the MVP.

**jimbo** · 07-19-2014

Originally Posted by spurraider21

I think Chinook had an aneurysm at the "spurs only have 1 elite perimeter defender in Kawhi" thing

Woulda been nice had he let me know that about 4 hours ago

**jimbo** · 07-19-2014

Originally Posted by Baam

Blatt could be the difference between an easy win and an uncertain series, Carlisle gave the Spurs with ty defensive players (but a smart scheme) and great offense...

Agreed, but I've sucked off Blatt enough already. He probably heard Manu's interview where he said he was surprised that the only team that forced the Spurs to play 1 on 1 was the Mavs. Being the non re that Blatt is, he'll give the Cavs a real shot at winning.

**Robz4000** · 07-19-2014

Originally Posted by jimbo

Alright guys I ed up on that one. I legitimately forgot Danny Green existed when writing that post. (and every post I've made regarding the Spurs vs Wiggins Cavs)

He's definitely a guy that could force Wiggins into taking contested jumpers. But that then means there's no one to hide Parker on because of Kyrie. So it goes back to 2012 OKC vs the Spurs. I know a lot of y'all are gonna point to their big men hitting jumpers being the difference maker (and

refs

), but the Beard still did major work in that series. I still think Wiggins'll be better than him. Next year? Probably not. So do the Spurs have the edge in the series? Yeah--but I don't think it's a major one because of how high I am on Wiggins.

But going back to Wiggins vs Love in matchups. Forcing Parker to defend Irving is worse than Tiago on Love imo. Like I said, I still think Tiago is one of the better Love defenders in the league. I wouldn't be afraid of him in the least. Then we could sit Danny on Kyrie and Kawhi on Lebron. All good matchups for the Spurs. (Although I guess they would be running Waiters at SG in the Love matchup, and I have no clue how that'd go versus Parker)

Boiled down, I'm still giving the 2015 Cavs more of a chance against the Spurs than the 2014 Heat. The 2014 Heat matched up horribly with the Spurs. With Danny Green existing, the Spurs have a slight advantage in the matchup unless Wiggins shows some major improvements in his ballhandling. I think the Spurs stomp the Love Cavs.

1) I forgot about Danny, yeah.

2) His J was only suspect when he got frustrated and would settle for contested jumpers. But like I said, who has a good jumper in that situation? The Spurs leave men wide open all the time when it's the best option... Ibaka/Perkins in 2012. Lebron in 2013. I'm sure there's more examples, but I can't think of em right now.

I was thinking they'd do it to Wiggins because they have no answer to him on defense. (Since Green didn't exist in my head when I was writing that post.)

IMO his ballhandling is more suspect than his jumper, that's something Danny would thrive on now that I think of it.

3) Well what other matchups do you win? Manu beating up on Wade was huge this year. I mean for all the hype Kawhi's getting, Manu was nearly as important & Dwyane Wade's athleticism was a big part of that.

4) Agreed

5) Guess that leaves Waiters on Parker? (If we're talking about the Love Cavs) I haven't watched him enough to comment on that tbh.

^) I still don't think Kawhi's defense was anything spectacular on Lebron. He still put up good numbers on Kawhi. It was Kawhi's breakout offense that won him the MVP.

Parker's defended Irving well in the past, and that was regular season TP. If he plays as bad or worse than last year, ok, but he's generally been a pretty solid defender at the PG position.

**Chinook** · 07-20-2014

It's not just about Green. Wiggins hasn't even looked unstoppable in the summer league. You think he's going to be some match-up nightmare against the Spurs? Even if he becomes a better offensive player over the season, he'll be the fourth option on the Cavs behind James, Irving and Thompson. The best I see him doing is pulling a Harrison Barnes from the 2013 WCSF, when the Spurs let Barnes try to beat them rather than giving anyone else the ball.

I think the Cavs should kick the tires on Ryan Anderson before blowing their loads on Love. I think they should prioritize defense over getting a third max player. I also don't think Love will extend for the long haul, so the Cavs are making a big gamble if they trade away multiple young talents on rookie-scale deals. But I don't think they'll be serious contenders against the Spurs or Clippers next season unless Blatt ends up being a great coach right off the bat (like Carlisle level).

**buttsR4rebounding** · 07-20-2014

Originally Posted by jimbo

Alright guys I ed up on that one. I legitimately forgot Danny Green existed when writing that post. (and every post I've made regarding the Spurs vs Wiggins Cavs)

^) I still don't think Kawhi's defense was anything spectacular on Lebron. He still put up good numbers on Kawhi. It was Kawhi's breakout offense that won him the MVP.

Except game 3 where he was key into forcing LeBron into 7 turnovers.

**jimbo** · 07-20-2014

Originally Posted by Chinook

It's not just about Green. Wiggins hasn't even looked unstoppable in the summer league. You think he's going to be some match-up nightmare against the Spurs? Even if he becomes a better offensive player over the season, he'll be the fourth option on the Cavs behind James, Irving and Thompson. The best I see him doing is pulling a Harrison Barnes from the 2013 WCSF, when the Spurs let Barnes try to beat them rather than giving anyone else the ball.

I think the Cavs should kick the tires on Ryan Anderson before blowing their loads on Love. I think they should prioritize defense over getting a third max player. I also don't think Love will extend for the long haul, so the Cavs are making a big gamble if they trade away multiple young talents on rookie-scale deals. But I don't think they'll be serious contenders against the Spurs or Clippers next season unless Blatt ends up being a great coach right off the bat (like Carlisle level).

I'm not making any evaluations based on the Summer League, I had enough free time to watch his Kansas games. I think he becomes a nightmare when you couple him with other great players. By himself--no--he's no nightmare. That's not Andrew Wiggins at this point.

He's not the 4th option behind Thompson. Not even close. I went to Texas. I've followed him relatively closely. That's not happening. He's an offensive black hole at this point. There's no way Blatt even gives him a fifth of the touches. I could see Waiters getting more touches as a 6th man before I ever saw Thompson getting more touches than Wiggins. They'll want Thompson to play a garbage man role if anything.

The best I see him doing is pulling a Harrison Barnes from the 2013 WCSF, when the Spurs let Barnes try to beat them rather than giving anyone else the ball.

That and a little Lebron James just might win you the le tbh. It's not like Harrison was bad, he was just inefficient. (from what I remember)

I think the Cavs should kick the tires on Ryan Anderson before blowing their loads on Love. I think they should prioritize defense over getting a third max player.

I can agree with that. But I also think Wiggins is the answer for some of their defensive problems. Their problem is they're just not going to trade Andy or Irving no matter what. I don't know who they can turn Bennett/Waiters/those protected 1st round picks they have into, but they could probably come up with something.

If they trade everything they have for Love, they won't have any ways of making their team better defensively. That'e one of the big reasons I'd be against it.

I also don't think Love will extend for the long haul, so the Cavs are making a big gamble if they trade away multiple young talents on rookie-scale deals.

Disagree about the Love not extending for the long haul. I don't know if they can extend and trade or not, but they'll do that if they can. But I mean at that point Love's going to be on a theoretical contender making max money. Unless he really really wants to play for the Lakers--he's got no reason to leave imo. I just can't see any big free agents heading to LA while Kirby is still there.

But I don't think they'll be serious contenders against the Spurs or Clippers next season unless Blatt ends up being a great coach right off the bat (like Carlisle level).

1) I do think they'll be a serious contender. At least on the level of the Lebron Cavs prior to 2010. They probably won't win as many regular season games as those teams, but they've got a good enough chance to make the finals. That might not meet your definition of serious contender, but imo if you've made the Finals with the best player in the world--you've got an okay chance of winning it.

2) I think Carlisle is the best coach in the NBA, so I won't hold Blatt to that standard. But if he's better than Spo/Thibs/Vogel--and I expect him to be--that'll be good enough to field a good series against the Spurs. I don't think Spo did a good job coaching in the finals either year against the Spurs.