saw the video last night.
Gotta say that unless the grand jury saw/heard evidence that we didn't see/know they got that one wrong.
IMHO PoPo overreacted with the 4 on 1 beatdown didn't need to use the choke hold like they did.
Was he cop a murderer? Not intentionally, I'm sure, but 2nd degree negligent manslaughter? I could see that possibility and this one should have gone to trial.
chokehold is meant to ... CHOKE (crush the windpipe, stop breath) which is illegal for NYPD but was done. forearm or upper arm crushing the windpipe.
the approved alternative is to have the crotch of the elbow in front of the windpipe, no crushing, while upper arm and forearm crush the carotids, blood flow to brain stopped, causing the victim to black out (so the police can beat the out him without resistance, then file a report "resisting arrest")
Choke hold in this case was not illegal. It's just not department policy.
Sorry but I've got little sympathy for dumb s that resist arrest.
Over black market cigarettes. smh
Rand Paul Explains How Taxes Murdered Eric Garner
http://wonkette.com/568214/rand-paul...PRlWYy5jClb.99
Selling black market cigarettes doesn't seem to justify a takedown like that. Would you agree? Why not write the mofo a ticket?
vid shows cop's forearm clearly on the guy's windpipe, which is the illegal chokehold.
Alternative action: let the perp give his dramatic speech, wave his arms, be patient, let the situation calm down.
NO, jump the n!gg@ immediately!!
My initial response to watching the Garner video was, "wow, that was a bit harsh."
And, for those arguing he didn't deserve to die for the crime he was committing completely discount the use of force that became necessary to effect the arrest. If we don't want people arrested for stupid, petty crimes, we should not elect officials that enact stupid, petty crimes and then empower the police to arrest people that commit them. It's not the police officer's fault he was there enforcing the law, that was his job.
If he used a banned choke hold to subdue Mr. Garner, he should be held accountable for that. I wasn't privy to all the evidence presented to the Grand Jury but, they certainly saw the video and had access to the autopsy and the Department's rules on use of force. That they came to the conclusion he should not be indicted for a crime tells me we're not being told the entire story. I don't think the officer acted maliciously or that he intended to kill Mr. Garner.
Perhaps the mob should be demanding the Department discipline the officer for breaking policy. And, in any case, I think Mr. Garner's family certainly has cause to seek a wrongful death judgement in civil court.
Resisting arrest justifies the use of force necessary to effect the arrest.
Certain methods (such as choke holds) are barred by some agencies because they can result in exactly what happened.
And, nothing against Mr. Garner but, a healthier person probably would not have suc bed to the force used to arrest him. I believe the medical examiner said as much.
Well, here's an interesting factoid.
You'll notice at the 1:03 mark, an African American female police Sergeant enters the frame. That is Sergeant Kizzi Adoni and she was one of two senior officers present at the arrest of Eric Garner. Does that change my opinion over what happened? No. But, it does tend to support the position this was not a racially motivated act.
EXCLUSIVE: Police report in Eric Garner’s death conflicts with videos, witnesses
Another female sergeant, Kizzy Adoni, made a similar statement in the report. She “believed she heard” Garner say he was having difficulty breathing. Adoni also said “The perpetrator’s condition did not seem serious and he did not appear to get worse.”
I know right? Would the same thing have happened over white market cigarettes?
From watching the video, I'm not sure from where the allegation of selling cigarettes comes. But, again, all we have is the video.
After saying he couldn't breathe 11 times, that should have gotten him some medical attention at the very least, although such claims are common among criminals trying to put off going to jail.
No one started filming until the confrontation happened. The guy was cited for selling ciggys before and was known to the police for such, if memory serves.
Kind of where I'm at on this one, especially those who obviously are in no shape to resist.
I agree with the last part of your statement and feel compelled to point out the obvious; when someone is verbally claiming they can't breathe, they are, in fact, breathing. Watching the video, I'm not sure I would have immediately suspected he was in any serious distress.
I don't disagree but, there were also the witnesses who were saying he had just broken up a fight and that the officer allowed those guys to leave while they stayed behind and confronted Garner. It could be a case of him being a known offender and they suspected he was up to his old tricks but, there is nothing to suggest he was selling cigarettes. When he asked one officer who he saw him selling cigarettes, the officer looked over his shoulder kind of confused looking...
Factually incorrect.
Breathing generally implies enough gas exchange to sustain life. Asthma stops that. You can be able to articulate "I can't breathe" and be in the process of pulmonary collapse that will kill you. It is entirely possible to tell that you are not getting enough air in your lungs for a short period of time before your brain starts dying.
A bit of personal experience, as well as what my kids pediatrician says about his. We are told to pay very close attention to such utterances.
Not a point over which I will quibble. If you're talking, you're inhaling and exhaling. You accurately point out that he may not be effectively exchanging gases in his lungs but, that's different than breathing. My point was merely to suggest the officers might not have been alerted to any crisis simply because he was claiming not to be able to breath. He sounded like a 300lb guy exerting himself and out of breath. That would be expected in this cir stance.
Personal experience: I spent 10 years as an EMT/Paramedic.
"I can't breathe" obviously means "I have enough breath to speak, but I'm having difficulty breathing" (like my windpipe is restricted by an illegal chokehold, my chest is compressed by some fat cops)
Personal experience: one intelligent, well-informed, -slapping, pragmatic sonofa .
I don't disagree that it was a bad move.
It's just not illegal for a cop to do that in NY in this case at this time.
chokehold is ILLEGAL for NYPD
Against department policy, yes. Against the law, no.
Illegal =/= protocol
Seems to be a lot of journalistic confusion about that.
How The Supreme Court Helped Make It Possible For Police To Kill By Chokehold
According to law professor and dean Erwin Chemerinsky’s book The Case Against the Supreme Court, Lyons discovered that sixteen people died after being choked by an LAPD officer, almost all of whom were black men.
When police Chief Daryl Gates was asked why almost all of these fatal chokeholds involved African Americans, Gates replied that the “veins or arteries of blacks do not open up as fast as they do in normal people.”
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...-by-chokehold/
chokehold is non-fatal, like tasers are non-fatal.
100s dead from each
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