NBA: Why the Thunder Will Never Win a le with Westbrook

[buttsR4rebounding]

Clay Bennett and Scott Brooks are bigger roadblocks for OKC's championship aspirations than Westbrook tbh

+1

[hater]

setting an NBA Allstar record for most FGs attempted

[DMC]

I would appreciate TS go learn some paragraphing

This I agree with. I fixed it.

[DMC]

Dmc may be right about him not ringing. But I disagree that going hard in a ASG is an example of why he wont he likes to compete and there is nothing wrong with that. Magic, and Jordan took it seriously LeBron and Kobe too they have won plenty of les. I get its part of the Spurs mindset and I agree that focusing on ball movement and on playoffs primarily is smart ...but it's not the only way. If Shaq was in his prime or Jordan I bet they could still win les even with the antiquated triangle ... Talent is still more important than system you just need a good system to take advantage give me prime Shaq with Kobe or Prime Jordan with Pip they will always look to eat first but they will still win. Give me the dominant player over lets say the Hawks model.

I addressed the Kobe/Lebron comparison in the OP. Lebron had to go to Miami and stack to win a ring because no one wanted to play in Cleveland, and Kobe is in what used to be the premier location for free agents in the US (his presence on the roster makes it less desirable now it seems).

[DMC]

Water is wet

So is your back

[hater]

Water is wet

So is my mom

[DMC]

^That might be interesting if my actual quote wasn't right above it.

[hater]

except it's not

[Killakobe81]

I addressed the Kobe/Lebron comparison in the OP. Lebron had to go to Miami and stack to win a ring because no one wanted to play in Cleveland, and Kobe is in what used to be the premier location for free agents in the US (his presence on the roster makes it less desirable now it seems).

I know you did. Im just saying despite whatever flaws Lebron has mentally, lack of a polished post-game, to stat conscious ... I would take his talent over anything else. IF let's say Lebron was ringless and shot happy like Kobe or Westbrook I would rather have him and try my best to work it out and get him a good coach rather than having a way less talented guy who is more unselfish. IF it's close of course I want the team first guy but talent trumps all. I would take a chance on Westbrook if the alternative is a less talented star.

[DMC]

I know you did. Im just saying despite whatever flaws Lebron has mentally, lack of a polished post-game, to stat conscious ... I would take his talent over anything else. IF let's say Lebron was ringless and shot happy like Kobe or Westbrook I would rather have him and try my best to work it out and get him a good coach rather than having a way less talented guy who is more unselfish. IF it's close of course I want the team first guy but talent trumps all. I would take a chance on Westbrook if the alternative is a less talented star.

None of that has anything to do with the OP. Russ is a point guard. From the onset in OKC he fought KD's uprising in the NBA with his own. He competed for notoriety for himself instead of for his team, though they benefited through association. We all know KD is beta to Westbrook, but that's because KD doesn't want to fight that intra-team battle for stats/notoriety. Had Russ spent more time trying to get his team involved in the offense than trying to raise his own stock price, the Thunder would likely be looking back at a ring or two right now. They have the pieces. They just won't win it with a chucking PG.

We could probably blame that on the head coach, but at this point it's so ingrained into the makeup of the team's offense that a new HC would have a very hard time changing it. Russ might not go for scoring fewer points even if it translated to more wins. The league has a lot of guys who are on winning teams that don't get a lot of individual notoriety, so perhaps Russ is more concerned with self promotion than winning. He wouldn't be the first.. the game was full of them last night including the host himself who, oddly enough could play almost 30 minutes in a meaningless game but has to "shut it down" immediately afterward. Someone who needs surgery shouldn't be out there dunking the ball.

That seems to be the dichotomy among the upper tier players in the league, winning vs looking good individually, and if they cannot have both they often prefer the latter.

[Killakobe81]

None of that has anything to do with the OP. Russ is a point guard. From the onset in OKC he fought KD's uprising in the NBA with his own. He competed for notoriety for himself instead of for his team, though they benefited through association. We all know KD is beta to Westbrook, but that's because KD doesn't want to fight that intra-team battle for stats/notoriety. Had Russ spent more time trying to get his team involved in the offense than trying to raise his own stock price, the Thunder would likely be looking back at a ring or two right now. They have the pieces. They just won't win it with a chucking PG.

We could probably blame that on the head coach, but at this point it's so ingrained into the makeup of the team's offense that a new HC would have a very hard time changing it. Russ might not go for scoring fewer points even if it translated to more wins. The league has a lot of guys who are on winning teams that don't get a lot of individual notoriety, so perhaps Russ is more concerned with self promotion than winning. He wouldn't be the first.. the game was full of them last night including the host himself who, oddly enough could play almost 30 minutes in a meaningless game but has to "shut it down" immediately afterward. Someone who needs surgery shouldn't be out there dunking the ball.

That seems to be the dichotomy among the upper tier players in the league, winning vs looking good individually, and if they cannot have both they often prefer the latter.

agree it was shameless of Melo to hold off on shutting it down until after he could play host to that game. And I get your point that Russ right now is in the category of me first guys. But I think looking at him as a traditional PG is wrong. I also think that OKC despite the talent they have NEED Russ to score. Part of it is lack of creativity from the head coach and some is probably russ isnt quite as amazing when he is not heavily featured. He plays balls to the wall but would he if his role was lessened? Not sure.

I already agreed with your premise. I just felt calling Russ out for a game that you admit is meaningless, for going for MVP is not fair. But I freely admit I am a BRUIn and a westbrook apologist. I have always liked guys that attack. I even defended rose on here pre-injury as well .. I just dont mind guys that shoot especially if they play defense and hustle the way he does. Again would love to see him with RC or POp who were able to rein in Parker and Montae. Ellis is probably the closest example of a guy many thought was a selfish gunner but has evolved in to more by a great coach and who people tried to make a PG but really needs to be PG/SG hybrid ...

[Koolaid_Man]

You make a solid argument. I agree and think deep down inside Westbrook rather put up 30 PPG on a bottom feeder while challenging for the MVP award every year. Whether he will admit it or Thunder fan acknowledge but he has and will continue to hold resentment towards Durant like Kobe did Shaq but at the end of the day, Westbrook isn't as great of a Basketball player as Kobe was.

Responding to the fat homie DMC is like asking to get your grabbed.

[DMC]

agree it was shameless of Melo to hold off on shutting it down until after he could play host to that game. And I get your point that Russ right now is in the category of me first guys. But I think looking at him as a traditional PG is wrong. I also think that OKC despite the talent they have NEED Russ to score. Part of it is lack of creativity from the head coach and some is probably russ isnt quite as amazing when he is not heavily featured. He plays balls to the wall but would he if his role was lessened? Not sure.

I already agreed with your premise. I just felt calling Russ out for a game that you admit is meaningless, for going for MVP is not fair. But I freely admit I am a BRUIn and a westbrook apologist. I have always liked guys that attack. I even defended rose on here pre-injury as well .. I just dont mind guys that shoot especially if they play defense and hustle the way he does. Again would love to see him with RC or POp who were able to rein in Parker and Montae. Ellis is probably the closest example of a guy many thought was a selfish gunner but has evolved in to more by a great coach and who people tried to make a PG but really needs to be PG/SG hybrid ...

I wasn't calling him out for a meaningless game. I was calling him out for acting like it wasn't a meaningless game while being unseeded in his conference and pointing to the fact that it only illustrates the problems with having him and KD on the floor at the same time. Russ has stars in his eyes. That team will not be successful on the big stage until the core talent learns how to play unselfishly. They don't have a juggernaut big like Shaq in the paint, so there's no virtual safety net for the chucking.

[JohnnyMax]

Responding to the fat homie DMC is like asking to get your grabbed.

[Franklin]

the Thunder wouldn't even make the playoffs without him though.

[LkrFan]

So is your back

BAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!

[DMC]

I said.