Do You Believe?

[Avante]

Red Herring: An irrelevant distraction, attempting to mislead an audience by bringing up an unrelated, but usually emotionally loaded issue. E.g., "In regard to my recent indictment for corruption, let’s talk about what’s really important instead: Sky-high taxes! Vote for me! I'll cut your taxes!"

translation

I know Blake asked Avante to give just one thing and it knocked out a list, but my stupidity is at an all time high today so bare with me.

[Blake]

No of course not. You cannot pick a convenient point along the way and say "if there was no religion after this point...".

The marriage term is relatively new, 800 years or so. I doubt you could go back 800 years and find a secular society or any society that practiced religion as a choice. It was part of their being, so if they got hitched it was a religious thing. It started off that way. There might be an animalistic claim to a mate, but that's not marriage.

This is why I say the world is becoming secular. As ignorance of science diminishes, secularism increases. That's cause and effect and it means something. Like Origin of Species, secularism won't be accepted for maybe generations, not as a whole in society, but it's what's true and it will remain and grow.

You're getting into a pretty specific definition of marriage. I don't see why an animalistic claim to a mate couldn't be seen as marriage.

[DMC]

You're getting into a pretty specific definition of marriage. I don't see why an animalistic claim to a mate couldn't be seen as marriage.

Gays aren't looking for equal animalistic claim to a mate though.

[Blake]

Kids and grandchildren who believe in God.
Knowing this old world isn't all there is.
Not buying evolution or BIG BANG.
Celebrating Christmas for what it is.
Not hiding behind a computer trying to look stupid with....there is no God.
Working at the wifes church.
Saying grace before a meal.
Going to a baptisim
Listening to Gospel songs

I asked for one because I don't want to respond to all of those. They all fail for different reasons.

Pick the strongest one you think you have.

[Blake]

Gays aren't looking for equal animalistic claim to a mate though.

Says who? There are gay couples in the animal kingdom

[Avante]

Joey was Sue's dog, she loved that dog and he loved her. You couldn't find one without the other unless Sue had to go somewhere and then you'd see Joey waiting and watching for her return. The minute he knew she was home he freaked out, then when they finally reunited it was cute to watch.

Then came that day when Joey chased that black cat that had been raiding the garbage can back across the street, on his way back..........the old lady simply didn't see him.

Sue was broken hearted obviously, so with tears in her eyes.....

Sue....I miss my Joey
mom...we all do dear, but Joey is in a better place now and he'll always be with us in spirit.
Sue...he's in Heaven?
mom...yes he is dear, and he's happy.
Sue...that's good, I feel better about Joey now

[Avante]

I asked for one because I don't want to respond to all of those. They all fail for different reasons.

Pick the strongest one you think you have.

I don't give a what you want dude. And the only fail here is your dumb ass.

[DMC]

Joey was Sue's dog, she loved that dog and he loved her. You couldn't find one without the other unless Sue had to go somewhere and then you'd see Joey waiting and watching for her return. The minute he knew she was home he freaked out, then when they finally reunited it was cute to watch.

Then came that day when Joey chased that black cat that had been raiding the garbage can back across the street, on his way back..........the old lady simply didn't see him.

Sue was broken hearted obviously, so with tears in her eyes.....

Sue....I miss my Joey
mom...we all do dear, but Joey is in a better place now and he'll always be with us in spirit.
Sue...he's in Heaven?
mom...yes he is dear, and he's happy.
Sue...that's good, I feel better about Joey now

Playing on Emotion (also, the Sob Story): The classic fallacy of pure argument from pathos, ignoring facts and calling on emotion alone. E.g., “If you don’t agree that witchcraft is a major problem just shut up for a moment and picture in your mind all those poor moms crying bitter tears for their innocent tiny little children whose little beds and tricycles lie cold and abandoned, all because of those wicked old witches! Let’s string’em up!”

[Avante]

Playing on Emotion (also, the Sob Story): The classic fallacy of pure argument from pathos, ignoring facts and calling on emotion alone. E.g., “If you don’t agree that witchcraft is a major problem just shut up for a moment and picture in your mind all those poor moms crying bitter tears for their innocent tiny little children whose little beds and tricycles lie cold and abandoned, all because of those wicked old witches! Let’s string’em up!”

translation

Sue and Joey!

[DMC]

Says who? There are gay couples in the animal kingdom

So do you wish to contend that all Gays want is the right to make self claims on other Gays? If so why the religion comment?

[Avante]

Like I've mentionred before....


I have friends from both worlds, I know some very very wild/crazy/thuggish cats and some very successful people, very together. Those who play this....there ain't no ing God.....are simply inferior to those who have a God in their life.

We see that right there, look at how the atheists act here. They're all ed up. You'd need a dozen of the s to get half a brain out of them.

[Blake]

Joey was Sue's dog, she loved that dog and he loved her. You couldn't find one without the other unless Sue had to go somewhere and then you'd see Joey waiting and watching for her return. The minute he knew she was home he freaked out, then when they finally reunited it was cute to watch.

Then came that day when Joey chased that black cat that had been raiding the garbage can back across the street, on his way back..........the old lady simply didn't see him.

Sue was broken hearted obviously, so with tears in her eyes.....

Sue....I miss my Joey
mom...we all do dear, but Joey is in a better place now and he'll always be with us in spirit.
Sue...he's in Heaven?
mom...yes he is dear, and he's happy.
Sue...that's good, I feel better about Joey now

Parents sometimes lie to their kids like that to help them feel better.

[DMC]

Like I've mentionred before....


I have friends from both worlds, I know some very very wild/crazy/thuggish cats and some very successful people, very together. Those who play this....there ain't no ing God.....are simply inferior to those who have a God in their life.

We see that right there, look at how the atheists act here. They're all ed up. You'd need a dozen of the s to get half a brain out of them.

Argument from Consequences: The major fallacy of arguing that something cannot be true because if it were the consequences would be unacceptable. (E.g., "Global climate change cannot be caused by human burning of fossil fuels, because if it were, switching to non-polluting energy sources would bankrupt American industry," or "Doctor, that's wrong! I can't have cancer, because if I did that'd mean that I won't live to see my kids get married!")

[Avante]

Parents sometimes lie to their kids like that to help them feel better.

BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now think...

Sue...I miss my Joey
mom...we all do dear, but he's dead now and we have to move on.
Sue...he's in Heaven?
mom...there is no Heaven dear, Joey is just dead.
Sue....poor Joey, (as the tears begin to flow)

Blake, you really don't get it at all do you?

Most people want to believe in more than just this, it makes them feel better about things. This.... all that, if ya can't see Him He doesn't exist.....that's for little freaks like you, ok? You have no sensitivities, no soul, no heart, just a little jerk.

[Blake]

So do you wish to contend that all Gays want is the right to make self claims on other Gays? If so why the religion comment?

it's just one instance to show marriage can have and has had a much broader definition than the one you're limiting it to.

and my thinking is that since church is now irrelevant in our society to get married, I have no reason to believe it was ever necessary to give birth to it to begin with.

which of course would be why I'd say religion has held gays back from getting married.

[Blake]

BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now think...

Sue...I miss my Joey
mom...we all do dear, but he's dead now and we have to move on.
Sue...he's in Heaven?
mom...there is no Heaven dear, Joey is just dead.
Sue....poor Joey, (as the tears begin to flow)

Blake, you really don't get it at all do you?

Truth can be tough to hear, but Sue is better off in the long run.

[Avante]

Truth can be tough to hear, but Sue is better off in the long run.

Damn you're dumb!

Sue is just a kid guy, ok? You don't play this...the truth can be tough. You tell them whatever it takes to ease the pain. the truth.

I can see why you live alone and get a nut doing this.

[Blake]

Damn you're dumb!

Sue is just a kid guy, ok? You don't play this...the truth can be tough. You tell them whatever it takes to ease the pain. the truth.

I can see why you live alone and get a nut doing this.

I have no problem with lying or telling to the truth about dogs dying. Either way might yield positive results.

[DMC]

it's just one instance to show marriage can have and has had a much broader definition than the one you're limiting it to.

Ok pick a definition and stick with it, no moving the goal posts. You do realize though that the word "marriage" actually has a meaning, it's not an arbitrary claim between any two living things.

and my thinking is that since church is now irrelevant in our society to get married, I have no reason to believe it was ever necessary to give birth to it to begin with.

That's non-sequitur. We can say "Jesus Christ" now and not be religious, but without religion we wouldn't be saying Jesus Christ.

which of course would be why I'd say religion has held gays back from getting married.

But you didn't stop there and I didn't take issue with that statement because it's true. What you actually said was "If not for religion, we'd allow gays the freedom to get married and be happy/unhappy just like straight people."

If what you meant was "if religion didn't interfere" that's different than saying "if religion never existed". Either way, the push against Gay marriage isn't just a religious issue and that part that is a religious issue isn't confined to the church. You can no more separate yourself from your religious upbringing than you can from your racist upbringing, if you have either. You might disagree with the tenets, but you still know them and you still are accustomed to certain things being a certain way. sexuality is a sin, but then so is working on Sunday. There are no laws against working on Sunday so it's not all religion.

[DMC]

BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now think...

Sue...I miss my Joey
mom...we all do dear, but he's dead now and we have to move on.
Sue...he's in Heaven?
mom...there is no Heaven dear, Joey is just dead.
Sue....poor Joey, (as the tears begin to flow)

Blake, you really don't get it at all do you?

Most people want to believe in more than just this, it makes them feel better about things. This.... all that, if ya can't see Him He doesn't exist.....that's for little freaks like you, ok? You have no sensitivities, no soul, no heart, just a little jerk.

Appeal to Closure. The contemporary fallacy that an argument, standpoint, action or conclusion must be accepted, no matter how questionable, or else the point will remain unsettled and those affected will be denied "closure." This refuses to recognize the truth that some points will indeed remain unsettled, perhaps forever. (E.g., "Society would be protected, crime would be deterred and justice served if we sentence you to life without parole, but we need to execute you in order to provide some sense of closure.") (See also "Argument from Ignorance," "Argument from Consequences.")

[DMC]

Damn you're dumb!

Sue is just a kid guy, ok? You don't play this...the truth can be tough. You tell them whatever it takes to ease the pain. the truth.

I can see why you live alone and get a nut doing this.

Argument from Santa Claus.

[Avante]

Argument from Santa Claus.

translation

Nobody is reading any of that stupid of mine, are they?

[cantthinkofanything]

Nobody is reading any of that stupid of mine, are they?

no

[Avante]

So it's better to have no God in your life. Society would be far better off if religion wasn't in it.

So where is that at? How do we know that if we have nothing to compare it to?

[Avante]

no

Dude, nobody here has knocked out more 20 page plus threads than myself. And you are always ALWAYS in them, so why the bull ?