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  1. #26
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    And did this resulted in a poorer education, directly, to how many children?

    Please show causality.
    fewer teachers, fewer teaching resources, bigger class sizes (proven to reduce teaching efficacy), and KS schools closed early for the year due to lack of funds, ALL PROVEN to make students learn more and better. LOL

  2. #27
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    S&P downgrades Kansas bond rating

    While the general public and suckers might be taken in by Murdoch's propaganda, the people who do the cold, hard analysis for the financial system look a bit deeper. They didn't like what they found.

    What hasn't happened yet, is the growth isn't really keeping pace with the cuts in services. They keep wishing for their supply-side fantasy to come true.

    The amount of debt taken on and reserves that the Republicans in charge of Kansas have had to draw down has been considerable.

    Revised Forecast Predicts Deeper Hole for Kansas

    1. Revenue has fallen sharply, with no rebound in sight. The 2012 and 2013 tax cuts led to a $688 million drop (10.8 percent) in overall revenue in FY 2014, the first full fiscal year in which the tax cuts were in effect.

    The tax cuts did not produce anything magical. Revenue did not replenish itself. The economy did not grow any faster than normal. Rather, the new estimate predicts a stagnant revenue stream of about $5.7 billion through FY 2017.
    2. The revised revenue estimate may not be low enough yet. Corporate income tax receipts, sales tax receipts, and severance tax receipts underperformed expectations in the first nine months of FY 2015. So, the estimators revised the forecast for those revenue sources downward.

    However, individual income tax receipts have trailed last year’s low pace, but the estimators made no change to their previous prediction that income tax receipts would grow slightly in FY 2015. During April, May, and June, income tax receipts must be $147 million higher than that same period last year in order to meet the estimate. That may happen — but it may be too optimistic.

    Watch closely, because Kansas has very little flexibility left to absorb a revenue shortfall in the last three months of FY 2015.
    Last edited by RandomGuy; 05-19-2015 at 12:41 PM. Reason: proof reading is also a good thing.

  3. #28
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    And did this resulted in a poorer education, directly, to how many children?

    Please show causality.
    Shawnee Heights USD 450, five other school districts say they will close early
    Superintendents cite cuts to current-year budgets


    At least six school districts plan on closing early this May because of budget concerns.

    Concordia Unified School District 333, Twin Valley USD 240, Smoky Valley USD 400, Haven USD 312, Skyline USD 438 and Shawnee Heights USD 450 have all shortened their calendars, according to superintendents, school board minutes and public announcements on the districts’ websites.

    “We felt like we could afford to do that just to get through the current year,” USD 450 superintendent Martin Stessman said, adding that he doesn’t want the change to be permanent.
    http://cjonline.com/news/2015-04-20/...ll-close-early


    That is it for starters.

    The Governor has cut in an attempt to close the budget hole, and will be forced to cut even more.

    You can't sustain a growing populations educational needs with a shrinking budget without something giving.

    Easy enough to follow up the slow motion dumbassery of the tax cuts. Self inflicted wound, IMO. I am glad that the people who think this is a good, workable idea have a laboratory to carry out their hairbrained schemes, but more than a little sad to see kids bear the brunt of their elders stupidity. But that is just my opinion. You asked for facts, that is the start of it.

    There will be more budget cuts and teacher layoffs, statewide, by the analysis I have read. Pretty unavoidable given the hole they put themselves in.

  4. #29
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    prove causality

    A precedes B doesn't prove A caused B

    WSJ? Murdoch toilet paper with same cred as Murdoch's Fox Liars

    btw, did you hear that your hero O'Reilly, a good Catholic boy like so many extreme, authoritarian, bully right wingers, is a wife beater?
    Analysts from the Legislative Research Department and Department of Revenue told legislators Thursday that it’s difficult to link the exemption directly to new jobs.
    http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascit...gislators.html

    Keep asking that question. He will not be able to answer it any better than their own eggheads can.

  5. #30
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Crap. I could dissect this all day, but lunch is over. Back to work.

  6. #31
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Kansas's Failed Experiment

    The state's budget problems didn't go away after Governor Sam Brownback's reelection—they got worse. Will the lesson of tax-cuts-gone-awry give Republican candidates pause in 2016?


    Now, Kansas's red ink has left the governor red- faced. Brownback is asking Republican state lawmakers to slow the income tax cuts over the next few years, raise taxes on cigarettes and alcohol, overhaul school funding, and divert money from the state's highway fund in order to balance the budget. It's not as if he's abandoning his conservative economic philosophy—he still wants to replace the state's income tax entirely with consumption taxes over time.


    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...riment/389874/
    Stealing money from roads and transportation is easy to do. Roads don't have lobbyists. (toll roads aside)

    Not really workable in the long run. But then, more than a few GOP policies fall into that category. Just don't ask them about evolution.

  7. #32
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    The problem with Kansas isn't the tax cuts, it's the fact that they didn't match them with spending cuts. Now they have a huge budget hole that they don't know how to patch and the long term outlook is deficit spending. That's because the economy didn't grow anywhere near what they thought it would, and revenue shortfalls are the order of the day. In that sense, it was a failure.

    This is an ongoing issue with GOP policy, the talk is always about spending cuts, but the walk is very different.

  8. #33
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    Okay Random Guy...it's your turn. I will show you some information about the Reagan years that most liberals conveniently ignore. It absolutely demonstrates the effectiveness of supply side economics.

  9. #34
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  10. #35
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  11. #36
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    Shawnee Heights USD 450, five other school districts say they will close early
    Superintendents cite cuts to current-year budgets




    http://cjonline.com/news/2015-04-20/...ll-close-early


    That is it for starters.

    The Governor has cut in an attempt to close the budget hole, and will be forced to cut even more.

    You can't sustain a growing populations educational needs with a shrinking budget without something giving.

    Easy enough to follow up the slow motion dumbassery of the tax cuts. Self inflicted wound, IMO. I am glad that the people who think this is a good, workable idea have a laboratory to carry out their hairbrained schemes, but more than a little sad to see kids bear the brunt of their elders stupidity. But that is just my opinion. You asked for facts, that is the start of it.

    There will be more budget cuts and teacher layoffs, statewide, by the analysis I have read. Pretty unavoidable given the hole they put themselves in.
    If spending is so important, and CUTS in spending directly result in poorer results, why is it that, as a country, education spending increases have outpaced inflation for a while now, yet test scores are falling? Causality should necessarily go both ways?


  12. #37
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Okay Random Guy...it's your turn. I will show you some information about the Reagan years that most liberals conveniently ignore. It absolutely demonstrates the effectiveness of supply side economics.
    Whatever you posted isn't showing, but you are aware that Reagan increased the deficit by almost $2 trillion during his tenure, raised taxes, and did the biggest illegal alien amnesty this country has ever seen?

    I don't get why conservatives keep bringing up zombie Ronnie. He wouldn't get past the GOP primaries in this day and age if he were to campaign on his presidential record.

  13. #38
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    ECONOMY BEFORE REAGAN
    When President Reagan entered office in 1981, he faced actually much worse economic problems than Obama faced in 2009:
    •Three worsening recessions starting in 1969 were about to culminate in the worst of all in 1981-1982.
    •Unemployment soaring into double digits at a peak of 10.8%.
    •Roaring double-digit inflation, with the CPI at 11.3% in 1979 and 13.5% in 1980 (25% in two years).
    •Double digit interest rates, with the prime rate peaking at 21.5% in 1980.
    •The poverty rate started increasing in 1978, eventually climbing by 33%, from 11.4% to 15.2%.
    •A fall in real median family income that began in 1978 snowballed to a decline of almost 10% by 1982.
    •From 1968 to 1982, the Dow Jones industrial average lost 70% of its real value, reflecting an overall collapse of stocks.

    REAGAN’S ECONOMIC SUCCESS
    Reagan conservative policies amounted to the most successful economic experiment in world history:
    •20 million new jobs were created.
    •Unemployment fell to 5.3% by 1989.
    •The top income tax rate was cut from 70% to 28%.
    •The Reagan Recovery took off once the tax rate cuts were fully phased in.
    •Total federal spending declined to 21.2% of GDP in 1989 (even with the Reagan defense buildup, which won the Cold War.)
    •Eliminated price controls on oil and natural gas. Production soared, and aided by a strong dollar the price of oil declined by more than 50%.
    •Real per-capita disposable income increased by 18% from 1982 to 1989 (meaning the American standard of living increased by almost 20% in just 7 years.)
    •The poverty rate declined every year from 1984 to 1989, dropping by one-sixth from its peak.
    •The stock market more than tripled in value from 1980 to 1990 (a larger increase than in any previous decade.)
    •The Reagan recovery started in official records in November 1982, and lasted 92 months without a recession until July 1990 (when the tax increases of the 1990 budget deal killed it.)
    •During this 7-year recovery, the economy grew by almost one-third (equivalent of adding the entire economy of West Germany to the U.S. economy.)
    •In 1984 alone real economic growth boomed by 6.8%, the highest in 50 years.
    •The inflation from 1980 (in the Carter era) was reduced from 13.5% to 3.2% by 1983.
    (The contractionary, tight-money policies needed to kill this inflation inexorably created the steep recession of 1981 to 1982, which is why Reagan did not suffer politically catastrophic blame for that recession.)
    •The Reagan Recovery kicked off a historic 25-year economic boom (with short recessions in 1990 and 2001.)
    •The period from 1982 to 2007 is the greatest period of wealth creation in the history of the planet. In 1980, the net worth–assets minus liabilities–of all U.S. households and business was $25 trillion in today’s dollars. By 2007, net worth was just shy of $57 trillion. Adjusting for inflation, more wealth was created in America in the 25-year boom than in the previous two hundred years.
    •Economic growth averaged 7.1% over the first 7 quarters.

  14. #39
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    It's also apple and oranges. Ronnie could use the government credit card at will, since the federal government can print as much as it wants.

    State governments don't have that luxury.

  15. #40
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    ECONOMY BEFORE REAGAN
    When President Reagan entered office in 1981, he faced actually much worse economic problems than Obama faced in 2009:
    •Three worsening recessions starting in 1969 were about to culminate in the worst of all in 1981-1982.
    •Unemployment soaring into double digits at a peak of 10.8%.
    •Roaring double-digit inflation, with the CPI at 11.3% in 1979 and 13.5% in 1980 (25% in two years).
    •Double digit interest rates, with the prime rate peaking at 21.5% in 1980.
    •The poverty rate started increasing in 1978, eventually climbing by 33%, from 11.4% to 15.2%.
    •A fall in real median family income that began in 1978 snowballed to a decline of almost 10% by 1982.
    •From 1968 to 1982, the Dow Jones industrial average lost 70% of its real value, reflecting an overall collapse of stocks.

    REAGAN’S ECONOMIC SUCCESS
    Reagan conservative policies amounted to the most successful economic experiment in world history:
    •20 million new jobs were created.
    •Unemployment fell to 5.3% by 1989.
    •The top income tax rate was cut from 70% to 28%.
    •The Reagan Recovery took off once the tax rate cuts were fully phased in.
    •Total federal spending declined to 21.2% of GDP in 1989 (even with the Reagan defense buildup, which won the Cold War.)
    •Eliminated price controls on oil and natural gas. Production soared, and aided by a strong dollar the price of oil declined by more than 50%.
    •Real per-capita disposable income increased by 18% from 1982 to 1989 (meaning the American standard of living increased by almost 20% in just 7 years.)
    •The poverty rate declined every year from 1984 to 1989, dropping by one-sixth from its peak.
    •The stock market more than tripled in value from 1980 to 1990 (a larger increase than in any previous decade.)
    •The Reagan recovery started in official records in November 1982, and lasted 92 months without a recession until July 1990 (when the tax increases of the 1990 budget deal killed it.)
    •During this 7-year recovery, the economy grew by almost one-third (equivalent of adding the entire economy of West Germany to the U.S. economy.)
    •In 1984 alone real economic growth boomed by 6.8%, the highest in 50 years.
    •The inflation from 1980 (in the Carter era) was reduced from 13.5% to 3.2% by 1983.
    (The contractionary, tight-money policies needed to kill this inflation inexorably created the steep recession of 1981 to 1982, which is why Reagan did not suffer politically catastrophic blame for that recession.)
    •The Reagan Recovery kicked off a historic 25-year economic boom (with short recessions in 1990 and 2001.)
    •The period from 1982 to 2007 is the greatest period of wealth creation in the history of the planet. In 1980, the net worth–assets minus liabilities–of all U.S. households and business was $25 trillion in today’s dollars. By 2007, net worth was just shy of $57 trillion. Adjusting for inflation, more wealth was created in America in the 25-year boom than in the previous two hundred years.
    •Economic growth averaged 7.1% over the first 7 quarters.
    Did Art Laffer write that?

  16. #41
    License to Lillard tlongII's Avatar
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    Whatever you posted isn't showing, but you are aware that Reagan increased the deficit by almost $2 trillion during his tenure, raised taxes, and did the biggest illegal alien amnesty this country has ever seen?

    I don't get why conservatives keep bringing up zombie Ronnie. He wouldn't get past the GOP primaries in this day and age if he were to campaign on his presidential record.
    That's odd, because I can see it.

  17. #42
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    That's odd, because I can see it.
    These won't load:

    Trying to load the image says you must be logged in to view them. You probably need to reupload them somewhere else instead of hot linking.

  18. #43
    License to Lillard tlongII's Avatar
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    Did Art Laffer write that?
    No, but Laffer is a very intelligent economist.

  19. #44
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    No, but Laffer is a very intelligent economist.
    I'm pretty sure the whole "25 year boom" thing comes from The End of Prosperity...

  20. #45
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  21. #46
    License to Lillard tlongII's Avatar
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    These won't load:





    Trying to load the image says you must be logged in to view them. You probably need to reupload them somewhere else instead of hot linking.
    Oh, okay. I'll get to it when I can.

  22. #47
    License to Lillard tlongII's Avatar
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    Damn... I can't get to photobucket for some reason...

  23. #48
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    If spending is so important, and CUTS in spending directly result in poorer results, why is it that, as a country, education spending increases have outpaced inflation for a while now, yet test scores are falling? Causality should necessarily go both ways?

    ... needs a breakdown, also per year, into the components of "total cost".

  24. #49
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    I don't have a problem with Laffer, but we live in a different world today. Reagan's Social Security reform that jacked up payroll taxes and the "base broadening" tax hikes would put him firmly in "back stabbing RINO" territory, not to mention his deficit spending or amnesty. They also rode the fact that they received a country largely without much deficit at all (2% of GDP, currently at 9%).

    One thing to note about Reagan though, is that he was well aware of the damage his tax cuts did to revenues, and he took responsibility for it. Once the deficit hit 6% of GDP, he jacked up those taxes above to build back the revenue stream his income taxes lost.

    But most importantly, as I referenced earlier, you can't compare to a state government, since a state government doesn't control the money supply. This is very basic.

    There's no magic here, Kansas is going to have to start cutting spending, jack up taxes or roll back some of the tax cuts. Or a combination of those.

  25. #50
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    Kansas certainly needs to cut spending.

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