espn: dez will sit out camp and regular season games if no deal in place

**Trill Clinton** · 08-03-2015

Originally Posted by DPG21920

Here's one example. Even prime time says he shows "immaturity". Throwing punches, when coupled with vids like this paint the picture. Especially the punches thrown at teammates:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/dallas-cow...sideline-sound

**DPG21920** · 08-03-2015

So the fact a few other players have thrown punches makes it "the norm" or not a big deal? The vast majority of "skirmshes" don't seem to end with actual punches thrown unless you have a lot more examples?

**Obstructed_View** · 08-03-2015

Originally Posted by DPG21920

Here's one example. Even prime time says he shows "immaturity". Throwing punches, when coupled with vids like this paint the picture. Especially the punches thrown at teammates:

They all judged him before the audio was released. Dez said he was being positive, and the audio proved it.

**Trill Clinton** · 08-03-2015

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Sorry, but I can't recall any. I remember the Detroit game where everyone said he was being a childish, me-first asshole complaining about getting the ball, but the audio proved that completely wrong and 95 percent of the people who bad-mouthed him never bothered to apologize afterward. I haven't missed a game in Bryant's career, and the worst I've seen him do is get a 15 yard penalty for pulling off his helmet to argue after a PI call, which was pretty dumb, but excusable for one of the top offensive threats in the entire league.

Richard Sherman?

There are punches thrown at more than one camp every single year. It's simply not an uncommon occurrence.

Since you mention quarterbacks, Roger Staubach beat the out of Clint Longley at training camp when I was a little kid. Tom Landry tried to break up a fight at camp a different year and had to get s ches in his leg. I remember when the Oilers had training camp in San Antonio there was a fight where guys were throwing weights at each other in the weight room. Deion Sanders and Andre Rison wailed on each other in an actual game.

beat me to it. i just posted the link including audio of the "meltdown"

**DPG21920** · 08-03-2015

Originally Posted by Trill Clinton

http://www.nfl.com/videos/dallas-cow...sideline-sound

It's not about what he said - it's about melting down. Why was Witten yelling at him?

**DPG21920** · 08-03-2015

Didn't Dez walk of the field before the end of the game before too?

I get that scuffles happen all the time, but I draw the line at throwing punches. Hence the "Jordan" comment.

**Trill Clinton** · 08-03-2015

Originally Posted by DPG21920

So the fact a few other players have thrown punches makes it "the norm" or not a big deal? The vast majority of "skirmshes" don't seem to end with actual punches thrown unless you have a lot more examples?

yup. fights in camp happen so often its pretty much the norm:

"You guys are acting like a bunch of kids at a circus trying to get him," tight end Jason Witten said. "I mean, it’s football. It’s going to happen in training camp. Guys compete. Guys go at it. It’s part of it."

it wasn't a distraction to the team whatsoever:

"That’s good stuff. That’s training camp. Now that’s not new. That’s been happening at our training camps for years and years and years. It is a throwback to the years when you saw Michael Irvin out here, Deion [Sanders] and those guys."

brothers fight all the time and hug it out afterwards:

**DPG21920** · 08-03-2015

Well maybe I just don't know football, but doesn't seem normal. Why is Dez on all these rules? Didn't he have a curfew? Supervision? And a bunch of other rules because he was running wild?

Or is that pretty normal too? I'm seriously asking....

Also, normal does not equal right or good.

**Obstructed_View** · 08-03-2015

Originally Posted by DPG21920

So the fact a few other players have thrown punches makes it "the norm" or not a big deal? The vast majority of "skirmshes" don't seem to end with actual punches thrown unless you have a lot more examples?

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com...uncey-fight-at

http://deadspin.com/punches-thrown-a...ght-1055298075

http://www.whec.com/article/stories/s3538113.shtml

http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archiv...d-session.html

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...uring-practice

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-...agles-practice

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...-steelers-camp

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/stor...camp-body-slam

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11...cos-fight-camp

**spurraider21** · 08-03-2015

Originally Posted by Trill Clinton

philip rivers, jay cutler throw tantrums on the sideline and cuss at teammates and its called being "passionate". matter of fact, there is probably a fight going on in training camp somewhere right now

dez does it and he needs to grow up

jay cutler is considered to be one of the most immature POS quarterbacks in the league.

but keep posting e coli smileys. makes it seem like u know what you're talkin about

**Obstructed_View** · 08-03-2015

Originally Posted by DPG21920

Well maybe I just don't know football, but doesn't seem normal. Why is Dez on all these rules? Didn't he have a curfew? Supervision? And a bunch of other rules because he was running wild?

Or is that pretty normal too? I'm seriously asking....

Also, normal does not equal right or good.

I don't think your characterization is wrong at all. Dez did indeed have a curfew and minders. He's a hothead. He was massively immature. He was a coddled superstar who made questionable decisions. His upbringing was pretty terrible. He had questions from when he was in college. It's the reason he fell in the draft despite being maybe the top pure talent available, and clearly he knew that because he not only agreed to go along with the Cowboys' restrictions, he went to Jason Witten and sought him as a role model. You're not being unreasonable in pointing out his past and the questions that followed him into the league, questions that linger to this day, but I think at some point people need to acknowledge the job he's done at handling his business and growing up.

That's why I honestly questioned why you'd think that getting into a fight at camp, something that literally happens all the time, was a big deal. Many coaches like when their players get chippy at camp. Buddy Ryan loved it, John Fox was a fan of it. The only coach I remember that really frowned on it was Jim Harbaugh, and I posted a link above where there were fights in his camp.

I greatly dislike "me-first" players, and though I understood the Cowboys' decision to risk the pick on him, I was ready for that risk to be a major failure. Several years in, I'm of the opinion, and you're free to disagree, that he's matured surprisingly well. People have been waiting for the other shoe to drop since he was drafted, but I feel like he deserves some credit here, as many things reported about him, from the assault on his mother, to the mall altercation, to the sideline rant in Detroit, were blown way out of proportion. He seems to be growing into a leader of this team. He has made mistakes, and been surprisingly more willing to accept responsibility than I ever expected. He got a 15 yard penalty after a touchdown once and apologized to Garrett immediately and apologized for it after the game, saying he'd be more careful. I certainly don't remember TO ever doing that.

**Obstructed_View** · 08-03-2015

Originally Posted by benefactor

Indeed he has. Plenty of grown men get banned from the mall for not pulling their pants up.

Apparently the only grown men that off-duty cops seem to think it's okay to order around when they aren't breaking any laws are the ones with brown faces. They didn't realize that one of those brown faces plays for the Cowboys and would tell them to off. This is the same mall where they detained Deion Sanders Jr for trying to buy Chick Fil A with a credit card.

**Obstructed_View** · 08-03-2015

Originally Posted by DPG21920

Didn't Dez walk of the field before the end of the game before too?

Yes he did. I had to look up what game it was. To be honest, I didn't pay much attention to it at the time because Jason Garrett abandoned his running game with a 23 point halftime lead and away a game they'd have won if he'd just run the ball for three and out at any point in the second half.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I'm glad he walked off the field if he felt the same way I did, because I'd have gotten cut for telling JG what a ing re he was for throwing the ball when Murray had 100 yards rushing at halftime.

**DPG21920** · 08-03-2015

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

I don't think your characterization is wrong at all. Dez did indeed have a curfew and minders. He's a hothead. He was massively immature. He was a coddled superstar who made questionable decisions. His upbringing was pretty terrible. He had questions from when he was in college. It's the reason he fell in the draft despite being maybe the top pure talent available, and clearly he knew that because he not only agreed to go along with the Cowboys' restrictions, he went to Jason Witten and sought him as a role model. You're not being unreasonable in pointing out his past and the questions that followed him into the league, questions that linger to this day, but I think at some point people need to acknowledge the job he's done at handling his business and growing up.

That's why I honestly questioned why you'd think that getting into a fight at camp, something that literally happens all the time, was a big deal. Many coaches like when their players get chippy at camp. Buddy Ryan loved it, John Fox was a fan of it. The only coach I remember that really frowned on it was Jim Harbaugh, and I posted a link above where there were fights in his camp.

I greatly dislike "me-first" players, and though I understood the Cowboys' decision to risk the pick on him, I was ready for that risk to be a major failure. Several years in, I'm of the opinion, and you're free to disagree, that he's matured surprisingly well. People have been waiting for the other shoe to drop since he was drafted, but I feel like he deserves some credit here, as many things reported about him, from the assault on his mother, to the mall altercation, to the sideline rant in Detroit, were blown way out of proportion. He seems to be growing into a leader of this team. He has made mistakes, and been surprisingly more willing to accept responsibility than I ever expected. He got a 15 yard penalty after a touchdown once and apologized to Garrett immediately and apologized for it after the game, saying he'd be more careful. I certainly don't remember TO ever doing that.

I would agree with most of that, but for me personally, I draw the line at throwing punches. I played sports and got upset and pushed and shoved and yelled, but I never came to blows with a teammate. I would agree with you with regards to how well Dez has worked out.

There were a ton of questions about him and in all honesty (outside of the mom incident) it has been pretty much best case scenario. But my original point was always about taking it too far. He loses his cool too much for me, even though it hasn't prevented anything. It's just hard to trust someone, no matter how much progress they have made, when you see them revert back to the negative when things go wrong.

But he's been fine overall - especially compared to all the questions around him.

**SupremeGuy** · 08-03-2015

Originally Posted by unleashbaynes

What history? Throwing his hat at his crackhead mom? The guy has been fine off the field.

Originally Posted by benefactor

Indeed he has. Plenty of grown men get banned from the mall for not pulling their pants up.

**Obstructed_View** · 08-04-2015

Originally Posted by DPG21920

I would agree with most of that, but for me personally, I draw the line at throwing punches. I played sports and got upset and pushed and shoved and yelled, but I never came to blows with a teammate. I would agree with you with regards to how well Dez has worked out.

Fair enough. Like I said, you're en led to that opinion, but guys go at each other in camp at all levels, and things escalate to the point of taking swings at each other quite often. I hesitate to even call them punches. This wasn't Michael Westbrook-level violence. If it were, I'd be as concerned as you are. To be honest, my first reaction to the fight is that I'd have had a problem had Dez allowed a nobody corner to twist his helmet off and get away with it.

Originally Posted by DPG21920

There were a ton of questions about him and in all honesty (outside of the mom incident) it has been pretty much best case scenario. But my original point was always about taking it too far. He loses his cool too much for me, even though it hasn't prevented anything. It's just hard to trust someone, no matter how much progress they have made, when you see them revert back to the negative when things go wrong.

But he's been fine overall - especially compared to all the questions around him.

Agreed on all points for the most part. The way I heard the mom incident was that he threw his hat in her face and she called 911. I don't have a lot of faith in the Cowboys front office or the Dallas media that they aren't whitewashing everything that happens with this kid, but I have an equal lack of faith in the cops. I just don't think a skirmish at camp was that big a deal. If you see Tyler Patmon get in a fight this year during a game, watch who will be the first guy there to defend him.