Bowen vs. Danny Green?

[Frank Dux]

Agree but I dont see the significance of that here. Green isnt supposed to be in that situation in the first place (relied upon to win a finals series), you can even use this to his side, the Spurs never relied on Bruce offense while DG's threes can either make or break the series.

I think it was significant though. His role on offense was to do nothing more than make threes and he went 1-7 when it mattered most, and in a very close game. It's the same role that Bruce had. Neither one of them are relied upon to make or break a series. They're both outstanding 3 point shooters who just get to shoot from their sweet spots all night. But taking a lot of shots in Game 7 and missing nearly all of them has to be considered a significant reason that the Spurs lost that close game.

[Frank Dux]

Come on, guys like Kobe, Dirk, T-Mac, Ray Allen, all in their primes, were pretty tough to cover...

And literally making them cry, kick and scream. lol

[ducks]

did not kobe say bowen was the toughest

[Mikeanaro]

did not kobe say bowen was the toughest

Bowen and Horry were tough players and kind of dirty too, they pushed to the limits to win, Danny is not that kind of guy, CP3 was injured and he never took advantage.

[dabom]

That's because you're looking at the individual, and not how that individual impacts the overall team success. Both are very subjective. Danny has been pretty successful with the Spurs, but Bowen has been integral to the most dominant stretch of the franchise. It's a high bar, and Danny might help the Spurs surpass it. The FO has certainly put the tools around to do so.



It takes discipline to do anything. Pop specifically did not want Lebron going to the free throw line, so Bowen specifically didn't foul on drives. If anything, a fan of Danny Green should know how hard it is not to instinctively throw a hand in there and foul. Was it an easier job? Maybe. Was it what the coach wanted and what gave the Spurs a measurable defensive edge in that series, absolutely.



Bruce took less only one year (before getting old), and he was rewarded with the $4m extension you mention afterwards. It's no different than what Danny did this summer. I think it speaks way more about the character than anything else.

What's silly is to advance that the Spurs didn't "upgrade" from Bowen for any kind of financial reasons. The Spurs had a ton of chances to do this alleged "upgrade", including the year he was handed that $4m extension, and didn't do so, which goes to show they were plenty happy with what Bowen brought to the table.



No it's not. There's help defense, there's rotations, there's execution... there's a ton of stuff that go way beyond "one on one" defense that translate into team success.



I didn't cite support for my opinion. I merely stated it. You can disagree with it, that's fine.

Most dominant stretch in spurs history because he had ing prime duncan.

We'd have 2 rings already if manu didn't screw it up and maybe 3 if pop wasn't a this year and maybe 4 if the refs don't us in 2012. All without prime duncan. I'd say this stretch is just as good. The 2014 spurs could probably mop the floor with any of those other teams. just saying.

[Mikeanaro]

Most dominant stretch in spurs history because he had ing prime duncan.

We'd have 2 rings already if manu didn't screw it up and maybe 3 if pop wasn't a this year and maybe 4 if the refs don't us in 2012. All without prime duncan. I'd say this stretch is just as good. The 2014 spurs could probably mop the floor with any of those other teams. just saying.

Agreed but since we are talking about Danny he was MIA during games 6 and 7 so he was part of those ringless finals along with Porker, Manu Kawhi missing their freebies and Gary Neal.
And he was MIA again during the Clips series, one good game out of 7.

[100%duncan]

I think it was significant though. His role on offense was to do nothing more than make threes and he went 1-7 when it mattered most, and in a very close game. It's the same role that Bruce had. Neither one of them are relied upon to make or break a series. They're both outstanding 3 point shooters who just get to shoot from their sweet spots all night. But taking a lot of shots in Game 7 and missing nearly all of them has to be considered a significant reason that the Spurs lost that close game.

But a role player isnt supposed to be relied upon to.do that in the first place. You say he was just shooting threes, that was what they were doing in the games of that series that they were winning. Sure you can fault game 6 and 7 to the sudden slump of shooting by Danny, but I can also blame a lot of plays/people/lucky situations why Green doesnt have a fmvp right now.

Also, Green's offense can come from anywhere beyond the arc, giving the team much needed space while bruce was strictly shooting it from the corners.

[cjw]

Bruce Bowen couldn't shoot freebies.

Had Green been at the line, 6 might never have happened (though his brainfart leaking out on the break instead of staying with his man led to one of those treys in 6).

[ElNono]

Most dominant stretch in spurs history because he had ing prime duncan.

We'd have 2 rings already if manu didn't screw it up and maybe 3 if pop wasn't a this year and maybe 4 if the refs don't us in 2012. All without prime duncan. I'd say this stretch is just as good. The 2014 spurs could probably mop the floor with any of those other teams. just saying.

Well, it's easy to get into the "what if" game... it just didn't happen. Until it's surpassed, that stretch with 3 championships in 6 years was far and away the franchise pinnacle. I think the team is well positioned to perhaps match that or even surpass it, but we'll cross that bridge once we get there.

[Kool Bob Love]

Why do people who choose Bruce say these things...

1. You were a fan only after he retired
2. You are anti-bruce, even though a lot of us really liked Bruce and up until now
3. Say the players DG are defending are not of the same caliber as the players bruce were defending (cp3, wade, durant, westbrook, lillard, prime lebron vs kobe, dirk, rip, young lebron)
4. Cant provide facts that state how he is the better overall player
5. Uses ring count when he played with prime tim, prime manu

If any of pro-Bowen in this thread can create an argument in favor of Brucie without using the things above then we start talking. If not, you are just like kobe fans who use stupid like "killer insticts" "mamba mentality" in debates or all time lists

Check the poll 3rd world. Bowen>Green.

[100%duncan]

Check the poll 3rd world. Bowen>Green.

Meow

[Frank Dux]

But a role player isnt supposed to be relied upon to.do that in the first place. You say he was just shooting threes, that was what they were doing in the games of that series that they were winning. Sure you can fault game 6 and 7 to the sudden slump of shooting by Danny, but I can also blame a lot of plays/people/lucky situations why Green doesnt have a fmvp right now.

Also, Green's offense can come from anywhere beyond the arc, giving the team much needed space while bruce was strictly shooting it from the corners.

A role player isn't relied upon to do his role? Hmm. Okay. He went 2-19 in the last two, critical games. He was outstanding in the games we won, but his disappearing act in Games 6 and 7 was a significant contributor to the Spurs losing the series. if he wouldn't have played like ghost for two consecutive games, you might have a point about him being a fmvp. But he disappeared. That's what happened.

[100%duncan]

A role player isn't relied upon to do his role? Hmm. Okay. He went 2-19 in the last two, critical games. He was outstanding in the games we won, but his disappearing act in Games 6 and 7 was a significant contributor to the Spurs losing the series. if he wouldn't have played like ghost for two consecutive games, you might have a point about him being a fmvp. But he disappeared. That's what happened.

You talk like he was the main reason the spurs lost he was not. And what role are you talking about? You shouldnt rely on a 3&D guy to win you the championship. The big boys should have stepped up and done it.

[Chinook]

You talk like he was the main reason the spurs lost he was not. And what role are you talking about? You shouldnt rely on a 3&D guy to win you the championship. The big boys should have stepped up and done it.

They let Danny down so hard core in Game Two. Fact of the matter is that Green dominated the Finals on both ends for five games. Bowen couldn't come close to that. Leonard is considered a minor deity around here, and he only had three such games.

[HarlemHeat37]

I haven't looked at the numbers, but I bet there's a much stronger correlation between Green's scoring output vs. the Spurs' W/L record in comparison to Bowen's offensive output impacting the outcome of the game, tbh..

The current Spurs are heavily reliant on scoring from all their key players, including Green..Bowen's scoring had virtually no impact on the results of the old Spurs, they were conventionally built from a perspective of roles with a traditional #1 superstar(Duncan), #2 star (Manu) and #3 All-Star (Parker)

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Which is irrelevant. The guy insisted Bowen would shut down Paul. Facts tell us otherwise. Nice job dodging the real issue here though(Bowen's ability to defend point guards as effectively as Green).

A 38 YO Bowen couldn't stop Paul. Wow, shocking. Bruce in his prime could almost stop anyone. You guys really need to stop talking about Bruce's last couple of years in the league when comparing him to Green.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

They let Danny down so hard core in Game Two. Fact of the matter is that Green dominated the Finals on both ends for five games. Bowen couldn't come close to that. Leonard is considered a minor deity around here, and he only had three such games.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...305070SAS.html

People forget how huge Bowen came up in the '03 Lakers series. No it wasn't Green's offensive level in the '13 Finals, but he hit like 18 3's for that series and he led the Spurs in +/- in that series. And he held Kobe to a -22 for the series, 43% shooting and 27 TOVs.

That was one of the greatest series by Bowen ever. W/O him, the Spurs don't beat the Lakers that year.

[Chinook]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...305070SAS.html

People forget how huge Bowen came up in the '03 Lakers series. No it wasn't Green's offensive level in the '13 Finals, but he hit like 18 3's for that series and he led the Spurs in +/- in that series. And he held Kobe to a -22 for the series, 43% shooting and 27 TOVs.

That was one of the greatest series by Bowen ever. W/O him, the Spurs don't beat the Lakers that year.

Lakers were -35 in that series. Kobe played 90 percent of the minutes in that series. His expected plus-minus would be about -31. Not saying Bowen didn't check Kobe very well. But the numbers indicate that the Spurs just destroyed the Lakers in that series and that Kobe bore witness to it.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Lakers were -35 in that series. Kobe played 90 percent of the minutes in that series. His expected plus-minus would be about -31. Not saying Bowen didn't check Kobe very well. But the numbers indicate that the Spurs just destroyed the Lakers in that series and that Kobe bore witness to it.

That -35 was because of Game 6 blowout. And the Lakers pulled everyone after their run failed and were down by 18 in the 4th quarter. But Duncan/Bowen are the reasons the Spurs won that series. I watched every game. Kobe had only one very good game (Game 5). Even then, Bowen still was +11. Kobe played all 48 minutes and scored about 16 pts in the 7 minutes Bowen wasn't on the court and w/ Manu and SJAX checking him. W/O Bowen in game 5, the Spurs would have lost that game and ultimately the series.

There is a reason why Pop heaps so much praise on Bowen. If you ever watched him in his prime, you will understand why.

[Chinook]

That -35 was because of Game 6 blowout. And the Lakers pulled everyone after their run failed and were down by 18 in the 4th quarter. But Duncan/Bowen are the reasons the Spurs won that series. I watched every game. Kobe had only one very good game (Game 5). Even then, Bowen still was +11. Kobe played all 48 minutes and scored about 16 pts in the 7 minutes Bowen wasn't on the court and w/ Manu and SJAX checking him. W/O Bowen in game 5, the Spurs would have lost that game and ultimately the series.

There is a reason why Pop heaps so much praise on Bowen. If you ever watched him in his prime, you will understand why.

Kobe played 43 minutes in that game. He left with the Lakers down 25. Without that game, Kobe is a -2, and the Lakers were a -7.

Again, though, not saying Bowen wasn't great on Kobe at all. Just saying that plus-minus isn't the best way of showing that.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Kobe played 43 minutes in that game. He left with the Lakers down 25. Without that game, Kobe is a -2, and the Lakers were a -7.

Again, though, not saying Bowen wasn't great on Kobe at all. Just saying that plus-minus isn't the best way of showing that.

And the reason for that is Because like I mentioned before, every time Bowen went out, Kobe would go on a scoring binge. Kobe was +46 in the first 5 games when Bowen WASN'T on the court. Manu and SJax got owned by Kobe that series. If not for Bowen, there is no way in the Spurs won that series.

[Chinook]

And the reason for that is Because like I mentioned before, every time Bowen went out, Kobe would go on a scoring binge. Kobe was +46 in the first 5 games when Bowen WASN'T on the court. Manu and SJax got owned by Kobe that series. If not for Bowen, there is no way in the Spurs won that series.

Again, not really disagreeing with the idea that Bowen checked Kobe. I'm not one of those people who think Bowen wasn't critical to certain series for the Spurs. I disagree with using Bowen's relative impact as the main justification for giving him the absolute edge.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Again, not really disagreeing with the idea that Bowen checked Kobe. I'm not one of those people who think Bowen wasn't critical to certain series for the Spurs. I disagree with using Bowen's relative impact as the main justification for giving him the absolute edge.

Yes, again in '05, Bowen put the clamps on Anthony, Marion, Allen and Rip (held him to 38% shooting, 14 TO which as a Piston high, and he shoot 16% from 3 pt). Every single person Bruce guarded led their teams in TO committed, except Marion. Marion, a 20 ppg player, only avg 8 ppg with Bruce guarding him (really, tell me one player Green owned like that in the playoffs). Ray Allen only shot 30% 3P, 12-40.

I don't know if you actually watched these series, but if you did, you would not make the comment that Bruce never impacted a series. He did and in a huge way. He would frustrate his opponent to take bad shots and make stupid TOs. There isn't one series yet, that Green ever matched Bowen's performance defensively (when Bowen was in his prime).

[Chinook]

Yes, again in '05, Bowen put the clamps on Anthony, Marion, Allen and Rip (held him to 38% shooting, 14 TO which as a Piston high, and he shoot 16% from 3 pt). Every single person Bruce guarded led their teams in TO committed, except Marion. Marion, a 20 ppg player, only avg 8 ppg with Bruce guarding him (really, tell me one player Green owned like that in the playoffs). Ray Allen only shot 30% 3P, 12-40.

I don't know if you actually watched these series, but if you did, you would not make the comment that Bruce never impacted a series. He did and in a huge way. He would frustrate his opponent to take bad shots and make stupid TOs. There isn't one series yet, that Green ever matched Bowen's performance defensively (when Bowen was in his prime).

Curry shot like 10 percent against Green in 2013.

[apalisoc_9]

This is really close..

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