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Bowen hit a lot of clutch 3's in the playoffs. And over 40% every year. I'd rather have a consistent 3pt shooter than z streaky one, because you can play off of a cold shooter till they get hot.
Green
Bowen
Bowen hit a lot of clutch 3's in the playoffs. And over 40% every year. I'd rather have a consistent 3pt shooter than z streaky one, because you can play off of a cold shooter till they get hot.
Big difference between being a streaky 35-percent shooter like Jamal Crawford and being a streaky 42-percent shooter like Green. Plus, Danny is much more consistent than people think.
In 2015 Clippers series Green shot 30% and that was one of the main reasons they lost that series.
Again with the whole Green having to carry the Spurs thing. I don't get how that's an argument people use for how Bowen is more important than Danny.
I agree that Danny is more consistent than people think, which is why it's such a compliment to say Bowen was more consistent. It's simply not a slam against 28-year-old DG to say that he's not yet as good as 34-year-old Bruce was. It's a testament to how hard he's worked. Can't wait to see how much better he can get.
It's not a slam against Bruce either to say he was never as good as Green is now. I don't think people realize how well Danny's going to hold up in NBA history if he continues along this track. Dude may have a couple of franchise and league records by the end of it, and advanced stats love him. There are plenty of measures that say Danny is already at top-10 Spur. This is truly a golden era for Spurs historical talent, more than 2003 was.
But, it is a slam against Bruce Bowen to call him one of the most overrated players in Spurs history and that his defense was a product of Tim Duncan.
Yeah it is. 2005 Bowen would be the best defender on the Spurs team today. Green is the third best defender on the Spurs today, fourth if 2005 Bowen were there, and fifth if 2005 Manu were there too. It's not a slam against Bruce to say that Green has far more upside at 28. Danny is an excellent player, one of my favorites, and I would have rated the offseason questionable had they signed Aldridge and lost Green. That's what he means to this team, IMO. They can't win ring 6 without him.
But Bowen's jersey is in the rafters for a reason.
Did someone claiming to be a Spurs fan actually post that?
And to say Green is a system player who wouldn't be good on any other team. I'm glad we've covered slams and not-slams.
At this point, it's possible even Danny thinks that might be the case. EDIT: Not that he wouldn't be good, but he wouldn't be AS good. But it cuts both ways, as this is the team where his contributions mean the most. The Spurs have a system that maximizes his abilities, in many ways because it's a system they developed for players like Bowen.
I think if you put 2005 Bowen on this Spurs team without Pop's rapport with him, he'd struggle to get minutes. Even if his defense is better than anyone else's on the team (which is debatable and highly so), he is just way too limited offensively to survive in today's NBA.
Yes, because he played in a era with three obvious HoFers and nothing else consistent.But Bowen's jersey is in the rafters for a reason.
ANY half-way decent team needs a guy with Green's skill-set, even teams that already have one. If anything, Green will be worse in SA than he would be for other teams, because he's fighting with his backup for minutes (since is backup is a HoFer and a lock to close games even though he shouldn't be) and didn't have a focal point on offense like he used to (though that way improve with LMA).
Danny is the fifth option in the starting lineup in SA. He could excel as the third option in the first unit of another team so long as that team had a good sixth man.
Umm, yes, if you suddenly made Pop dislike him, he wouldn't get minutes. At that point he was the best defender in the league, and Pop hadn't yet learned that he couldn't just plug Keith Bogans into that spot, so their relationship would have been fine.
If they were playing the Lakers, Bowen checked Kobe. If they were playing the Mavs, Bowen checked Dirk. Debate all you want beyond that, but you'll be doing it by yourself.
I'm trying really hard not to outright ridicule you for this statement. The only thing that's changed since Bowen retired is that defensive efficiency and the three pointer have become even more essential to championship teams. The 3 and D player has become what every team wants now, and Bowen basically invented it. There's no team in the league that wouldn't take a guy who can play shut-down defense against 4 positions and hit three pointers at a 40-50 percent clip in the playoffs.
Yeah that's crazy to say Bowen couldn't play in today's NBA. There are plenty of defensive specialists who aren't eve as good as him playing for contending teams.
You are a very good poster but this is just silly. Kawhi, Bowen, Green and Manu would give Pop and any other coach multiple orgasms tbh.
There's a big gap being Pop not liking Bowen and Pop not already having years of experience with him. What I'm saying now is that if 2005 Bowen showed up to camp as an unknown to Pop, he'd struggle to get minutes. There really wasn't anything ambiguous about what I said.
Yeah, no offense, but there's an entire thread debating this. , there are multiple threads on this site debating this. I'm not surprised you didn't know that, because you're still saying "Bowen checked Dirk" like Bruce was more than a speed bump in that series. I don't want to sound harsh, but I don't want to go through the same arguments that we all had pages ago. If you want to see my reasoning, you can check those posts and see. After that, if you have something specific to ask, I'll be happy to answer it.If they were playing the Lakers, Bowen checked Kobe. If they were playing the Mavs, Bowen checked Dirk. Debate all you want beyond that, but you'll be doing it by yourself.
Bowen "invented" the 3/D role (he didn't, but whatever) for him to be able to survive in THAT NBA. In that NBA, it was okay to have wings that parked in the corner. Now, the only players who can get away with only shooting from the corner are bigs like Ibaka. Bowen was decent from the corner (not prolific by today's standards), but he was abysmal from other places around the arc (30 percent from what I've calculated). In Bowen's NBA, teams were still figuring out how to defend without helping off the corner. In today's league, defenses are much smarter and know how to not give up that rotation easily. And because Bruce couldn't really move along the arc, he'd be even easier to guard than he was then. Simply put, the spacing he provided back then would be less impactful in today's league. Maybe he gets credit for being a pioneer, but the game has evolved to require more than Bowen showed offensively. Maybe with his work ethic, he would have figured out how to do enough. But the gulf between him and Green is massive.I'm trying really hard not to outright ridicule you for this statement. The only thing that's changed since Bowen retired is that defensive efficiency and the three pointer have become even more essential to championship teams. The 3 and D player has become what every team wants now, and Bowen basically invented it. There's no team in the league that wouldn't take a guy who can play shut-down defense against 4 positions and hit three pointers at a 40-50 percent clip in the playoffs.
I think Bowen would have a chance as a fourth wing. But he would be the FOURTH wing, which means he would struggle to get minutes. Think about if a guy with Bruce's skill-set were on the now. He would barely provide any spacing and couldn't handle the ball. Sure, he'd be a great defender, but that's not a consistent need on the bench. He wouldn't really fit in the rotation.
Hypothetical- Had Bruce been playing with 2015 Tim instead of 2005 Tim would he be able to employ the same defensive style successfully ? And what about Danny with 2005 Tim?
Well, there's a lot that goes into that. 2005 Tim was hurt during the playoffs. So I dunno how much more mobile he was than 2015 Tim. But Green with Prime Tim in the handcheck era would have been a BAMF. Bowen with Old Time in this finesse era would have had to adjust a lot about how he played defense.
'2005 Tim' was more of a median estimate of 2003-2007 Tim's defensive ability. But I agree, Bowen used a lot of arms and thighs to bump his man out of his comfort zone, while DG is a no-touch, lateral movement defender.
Bowen helped the team create and Iden y as much as anyone, so for that I am grateful. Green is a very good player but doesn't have the intangibles of Bowen. You won't hear, "Danny Green got in my head."
Sure, but the question is: What does that mean by itself? If two guys are equally adept at preventing positive possessions, but one is playing mindgames and the other is just contesting shots, playing passing lanes, etc., is there really any benefit to being disliked? Maybe not pissing off the compe ion is a good way to avoid giving them an edge.
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