Jimmer Fredette to the Spurs (Update: Mostly Non-Guaranteed Training Camp Deal)

[Spurtacular]

Cojo was a bad draft. He never got himself into the playoff rotation.

CoJo was playing behind guards Parker, Manu, Green, Mills, Beli; and he did what was asked of him.

Yes, the Spurs could've had Butler. But teams don't always hit a homerun.

[Spurtacular]

Cojo was a bad draft. He never got himself into the playoff rotation.

Every mock draft out there had Jimmy Butler ahead of Cory Joseph. Guess what happens, PATFO plays smart and picks Cojo over Butler!

NBADraft.net J.Butler #34 ... Joseph #44
DraftExpress J. Butler #33 ... Joseph #50

Complete debacle.

I think since Manu/Parker, PATFO gets a B on their draft picks. But they're not 'great' or whatever like a lot of people want to believe. Some people want to point to Kawhi and note how 'they still got it.' I don't view that as the Spurs being so smart. I think it's more of an indictment of how sh**** the braintrusts of teams around the league are. I personally was calling KL a top five talent going into that draft; and I had wondered if he wasn't the best talent on the board, period. These guys around the league get caught up in following trends instead of following any sense of intuition.

[BatManu20]

Looking at this thread like

[Spurtacular]

They had just given up their backup PG to draft Kawhi Leonard. Why would they double up on SFs with (at the time) questionable shooting strokes and completely ignore a new hole in the lineup they'd just created. Please just stop.

Back-up PGs are not that hard to come by. Plus we're really talking about third string PG as Manu was mostly playing de facto back-up PG much of the time. You don't pass on a potential great talent for someone you're hoping will be merely serviceable.

[Spurtacular]

Looking at this thread like

I don't think anyone's even mentioned Jimmer for like the last 50 posts if it makes you feel better.

[Spurs9]

https://i.imgur.com/tRXf4CQ.gifv

[monkeypunk]

Looking at this thread like

[ceperez]

Back-up PGs are not that hard to come by. Plus we're really talking about third string PG as Manu was mostly playing de facto back-up PG much of the time. You don't pass on a potential great talent for someone you're hoping will be merely serviceable.

Hit the nail on the head. They had Nando de Colo already drafted 2 years earlier. Complete PATFO fail... Jimmy Butler was right there for the taking (every mock draft was showing this). If Butler was in the team, Spurs would have won 2013. Heck, I think Spurs would have won 2015 if they went over luxury to land Gasol.

[AFBlue]

Back-up PGs are not that hard to come by. Plus we're really talking about third string PG as Manu was mostly playing de facto back-up PG much of the time. You don't pass on a potential great talent for someone you're hoping will be merely serviceable.

If Butler was a potential great talent, he wouldn't have been available at the tail end of the first round tbqh. Let's not let his performance in the NBA cloud his status as a prospect at draft time. And while CoJo was ranked as a mid-second rounder in 2011, so too was George Hill in his draft class. I'm sure they didn't draft Cory, who was 19 at the time, with the expectation that his ceiling was "serviceable third string PG." Joseph was long on potential and short on production when he was drafted. Again, let's not cloud his draft profile with what he's become in the NBA.

[Spurtacular]

If Butler was a potential great talent, he wouldn't have been available at the tail end of the first round tbqh. Let's not let his performance in the NBA cloud his status as a prospect at draft time. And while CoJo was ranked as a mid-second rounder in 2011, so too was George Hill in his draft class. I'm sure they didn't draft Cory, who was 19 at the time, with the expectation that his ceiling was "serviceable third string PG." Joseph was long on potential and short on production when he was drafted. Again, let's not cloud his draft profile with what he's become in the NBA.

Passing on a 6'7" wing for an undersized guard who's not even rated higher by the so-called experts? I'm sorry, but that's a fail in light of everything we now know.

[ChumpDumper]

Presti did very well picking for the Thunder. Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka.....

Of course, OKC doesn't have the same standards and expectations of the Spurs... if that's what you mean.

My "bust" definition is in the context of a Spurs 1st round pick, if that isn't already obvious. The expectation of any Spurs 1st round draft pick to to contribute to winning a championship. Cojo, James Anderson, Mahinmi and Beno are all busts by this definition.

Definiton doesn't apply for coaches, or even players from other teams. Doesn't even apply for Spurs 2nd round picks.

Oh, so since you expect less of a guy like Presti, he's automatically better than RC.

Makes sense.

[ChumpDumper]

Passing on a 6'7" wing for an undersized guard who's not even rated higher by the so-called experts? I'm sorry, but that's a fail in light of everything we now know.

Retroactive mock draft win!

[AFBlue]

Passing on a 6'7" wing for an undersized guard who's not even rated higher by the so-called experts? I'm sorry, but that's a fail in light of everything we now know.

Spurs had picked up a 6'7 wing already. What's the sense in picking up two? And again, where the "experts" rank someone has never particularly mattered to the Spurs. George Hill over Mario Chalmers is a prime example of that. Also, in what universe is 6'3 undersized for a PG?

[ceperez]

Spurs had picked up a 6'7 wing already. What's the sense in picking up two? And again, where the "experts" rank someone has never particularly mattered to the Spurs. George Hill over Mario Chalmers is a prime example of that. Also, in what universe is 6'3 undersized for a PG?

Yeah, you are probably right that Spurs wouldn't care about the consensus rankings.

Anyway, CoJo was such a disappointment. You could tell that despite so many years with the Spurs, he really didn't improve his basketball IQ.

At this current stage, I think Simmons is way better than CoJo even at the PG position.

[RD2191]

Holy ceperez shut the up

Tbh. Dude is stupid as and annoying as .

[SAGirl]

Yeah, you are probably right that Spurs wouldn't care about the consensus rankings.

Anyway, CoJo was such a disappointment. You could tell that despite so many years with the Spurs, he really didn't improve his basketball IQ.

At this current stage, I think Simmons is way better than CoJo even at the PG position.

I will wait to see Simmons in the NBA before I cast that judgement. At 21 yrs old CoJo was a D'league all star and a All NBA D'league second teamer in 2013. http://www.basketball-reference.com/...osepco01d.html. You could say at a younger age CoJo was already playing better than Simmons. What really stands out from Simmons is his athleticism, but we still have to see him in the NBA. He has shown better passing instincts than CoJo though, to me that was CoJo's major deficiency. He never developed his passing skills beyond the rudimentary, but I will have to see Simmons in the NBA before I say he is flat out better as a player.

[Spurtacular]

Spurs had picked up a 6'7 wing already. What's the sense in picking up two? And again, where the "experts" rank someone has never particularly mattered to the Spurs. George Hill over Mario Chalmers is a prime example of that. Also, in what universe is 6'3 undersized for a PG?

You really want to argue that a team that needs wing help drafting two 6'7" guys who have shots to be premium wings is not worth it?

[Nathan89]

Expecting the Spurs to pick the best player available every draft. There is a lot of luck involved and the field that drafts behind the spurs is always more likely to find a better player than whoever the spurs pick.

[Spurtacular]

Expecting the Spurs to pick the best player available every draft. There is a lot of luck involved and the field that drafts behind the spurs is always more likely to find a better player than whoever the spurs pick.

That's all well fine and dandy. But the Spurs went for a PG that was gonna top out at serviceable as opposed to a wing player who showed great starter level potential as a wing. Not a smart move no matter how you choose to defend it.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

That's all well fine and dandy. But the Spurs went for a PG that was gonna top out at serviceable as opposed to a wing player who showed great starter level potential as a wing. Not a smart move no matter how you choose to defend it.

Why do you think he would have developped at all on the Spurs playing behind Green and Manu?

[ceperez]

Why do you think he would have developped at all on the Spurs playing behind Green and Manu?

Cojo over Butler was a bad call at the time. Cojo was straight out bad draft, you don't even have to use hindsight to figure this one out. He was a raw 19 year old that hadn't established himself in college, he didn't have any special athleticism or high percentages. He was just a guy with work ethic ( same thing Butler was known for ).

Also, important to remember that De Colo had previously been drafted 2 years ago. So if there was any shortage in the PG position, it was previously filled.

[Spurtacular]

Why do you think he would have developed at all on the Spurs playing behind Green and Manu?

Absolutely.

[AFBlue]

You really want to argue that a team that needs wing help drafting two 6'7" guys who have shots to be premium wings is not worth it?

Your judgement is clouded by the fact that both became max-level players tbqh. There are a half-dozen or more "6'7 athletic wings with potential" in every single draft. In that draft alone, people were arguing the Spurs should've traded up for Chris Singleton instead of Kawhi. Who? Exactly.

The point is, it's clear the Spurs did not feel that adding two wings with the same profile was a priority when they had opportunity to address other areas. We would be calling the Spurs FO geniuses once again if Cory ascended the way Kawhi has done, and this "two wings v. other positions" debate would be irrelevant. I mean, even more irrelevant than it already is tbqh.

[bluebellmaniac]

I'm sure he has bought heavily into every stock market winner with no duds. Lol! Wishing after the fact as if it was easy.

Is this the latest TimVP sock?

[Spurtacular]

Your judgement is clouded by the fact that both became max-level players tbqh. There are a half-dozen or more "6'7 athletic wings with potential" in every single draft. In that draft alone, people were arguing the Spurs should've traded up for Chris Singleton instead of Kawhi. Who? Exactly.

The point is, it's clear the Spurs did not feel that adding two wings with the same profile was a priority when they had opportunity to address other areas. We would be calling the Spurs FO geniuses once again if Cory ascended the way Kawhi has done, and this "two wings v. other positions" debate would be irrelevant. I mean, even more irrelevant than it already is tbqh.

Umm, easy for me to say based on hindsight; but "clouded" is a bit too strong.

In the 10-11 college basketball season, I watched probably a dozen or more SDSU games; so, I was very familiar with KL; and I believed he was a top five prospect and maybe the best prospect in the draft. And when the Spurs traded George Hill for him, I was immediately pleased (which is saying a lot based on how GH had performed). I only lamented that the deal couldn't be done without getting rid of Hill.

For some reason, I saw a good amount of UT basketball that season. I knew CoJo would likely be a serviceable PG in this league despite his not outstanding numbers in college. I knew from watching him that it was not a big upside pick though as well. Frankly, he shouldn't have been drafted below 40th at the earliest was my feeling as I generally recall.

I can't say that I was high on Butler. I had him in the 25-40 range based on limited views of him. Had the Spurs drafted him, I wouldn't have been over enthused. But I would have said, that draft pick makes sense.

In the case of CoJo, my immediate thought was well, the Spurs could have traded down and got him and a future first. It was a bad pick even then.

So, no, I'm not saying I knew about Butler. I'm not saying that 6'7" wings always pan out. We know first hand about that based on that kid from Tennessee that we drafted a few years back. But I'm saying that the CoJo pick was funadmentally flawed from the start.