Jimmer Fredette to the Spurs (Update: Mostly Non-Guaranteed Training Camp Deal)

[Spurtacular]

14th and 15th slots are up for grabs.

The remaining contenders:

Butler <-- role player at the 3. can shoot when open and long enough to be decent in defense.
Fredette <-- good IQ, but has too many risky moves. can't defend.
Bonner <-- locker glue, but can he still play?
Williams <-- seems to have a certain poise, but does the team need another SG?

I am leaning towards keeping Butler and leaving 15 slot open. Bonner makes sense from the coaching perspective.

How does cutting two signed players, signing another player and paying more in luxury tax and leaving a spot open and then paying more in luxury tax if you use it make sense?

[SAGirl]

How does cutting two signed players, signing another player and paying more in luxury tax and leaving a spot open and then paying more in luxury tax if you use it make sense?

I am not sure any of this makes sense, but I think the Spurs were interested in Butler for some time and maybe Butler was holding out for something else, agreeing to come to camp as the last of his options at the last minute. To get him to agree Pop must have been sincere that he had a shot. All of Jimmer, Butler, Williams and even Simms are in play. Bonner, although he's looked poor is staying put I assume, too much history with the team and chemistry with guys to be cut. I expect that if at some point in the season due to injuries and Bonner' s lack of a shooting stroke they need his spot, only then they will waive him. Jimmer would have helped his case if he could shoot, but he's gotten his shot blocked and clanked open looks he's gotten. In terms of shooting, he hasn't been good.

[monkeypunk]

How does cutting two signed players, signing another player and paying more in luxury tax and leaving a spot open and then paying more in luxury tax if you use it make sense?

Cause Jimmer sucks and is a net negative. If they leave an open spot, they can pick up an actual player once the buyout season starts and PATFO don't care so much about paying a little tax money nowadays. If there is a fit, they will make it work for the good of the team.

If Jimmer could hit his (any) shots, it would be a different story altogether but we've all seen what he can do and why he is on his 49th team in 6 months.

[Spurtacular]

Cause Jimmer sucks and is a net negative. If they leave an open spot, they can pick up an actual player once the buyout season starts and PATFO don't care so much about paying a little tax money nowadays. If there is a fit, they will make it work for the good of the team.

If Jimmer could hit his (any) shots, it would be a different story altogether but we've all seen what he can do and why he is on his 49th team in 6 months.

Rasual is 36 and has never been that great of a player; nor has he been a good an all around player. He can still be serviceable; but I think the fact that he went to Spurs camp w/o a contract shows that teams were either being risk averse or Rasual is actually ring chasing. I'd guess the former, tbh. I'm not saying Jimmer or Bonner can't be cut; I'm saying I have a hard time seeing it happening before January if it happens.

[Spurtacular]

Cause Jimmer sucks and is a net negative. If they leave an open spot, they can pick up an actual player once the buyout season starts and PATFO don't care so much about paying a little tax money nowadays. If there is a fit, they will make it work for the good of the team.

If Jimmer could hit his (any) shots, it would be a different story altogether but we've all seen what he can do and why he is on his 49th team in 6 months.

They're not going to pay money so that a guy can sit and rot at the end of the bench. Stop drinking the haterade and see reality for what it is.

[hater]

Jimmer looked a bit better towards the end of the game. He wasn't getting his stuffed and dribbling the ball out of bound off his foot

He can't be much worse fellas I believe he has hit rock bottom and only way is up

[Spurtacular]

You're putting too much thought in this. First, Messina is not in the same position as Pop. If he wants to be a HC in the near future, he needs to show that he can coach. For that reason its that you see him coaching and putting some effort until the last second of the game. On the other hand, Pop could put you, daboom, spurtacular, elnono and me and he will not care. He doesn't need to prove anything. Practically he has remained on the bench during these past 2 games. I think if he has raised from the bench is to argue with officials and during time outs. But nothing more. He's throwing out these scrubs in there to give them playing time because once the regular season starts they won't get that much of a playing time if any. Even in another team.

He wouldn't have to care; cos I'd take over like a boss.

[Gladney to see you]

KL got his shot stuffed out of bounds. It happens.

[Birn]

That's completely irrelevant (and mostly ignorant). You're aligning your opinions with those of PATFO because you consider them more knowledgeable. Congressman are (or should be) more knowledgeable than you or I, and they definitely have access to more detailed information to we do. So they should have better formed opinions. And they have tremendous track records, lest they wouldn't be congressmen. So why aren't you deferring to their credibility?



Do we as posters have any power over whether Fredette is on the team? No. So who cares whether we give him the benefit of the doubt or not? We cannot affect the outcome, so we're only giving our evaluation of the situation. Well, we except for you are. You're taking the completely substanceless view that you agree with PATFO on all personnel matters. Again, that's your right, but it's a REALLY silly stance to pump up and condescend people for not having.



The reason why this thread got so long is because of a workout video of Jimmer someone posted. It sparked a ton of debate over his mechanical issues. It takes less than 15 minutes of game time to see that those deadly faults are still there. He hasn't fixed his shot at all, and that's why most of us have no faith in him. That shot is why he was even available for a minimum deal in the first place.

So yeah, I have an opinion on him that he hasn't done anything to change. I watched quite a bit of footage of him, including full game videos and not just highlights. I looked at his stats and actually analysed them. I didn't just sit on my ass and claim Jimmer sucks because I don't like his name or because his rivalry with Kawhi. I went in sort of liking him and ended up realizing he's not a good player after researching him. That's much better than just deferring to someone else.

You really need to let it go. I think your opinion is trash and you think mine is trash. So what? I told you what my opinion was on Jimmer but you're too mentally degenerate to read and comprehend anything. I'll say it again for your benefit. The Spurs need another shooter. Jimmer is a good shooter. He's also a decent passer. He's close to what Belinelli gave us in terms of his offensive skills. Defensively, they would need to hide him like they did with Belinelli, Del Negro, Kerr, Neal, etc. It's not unusual for the Spurs to bring in someone who isn't a lock down defender. As long as he's capable of keeping someone in front of him 75% of the time and funneling opponents into our shot blockers, they can use him. He just needs to be an aggressive shooter and willing passer . That's why they brought him in. The Spurs want to give him a good look and see what else he can do. He's going to be on the opening night roster no matter how much anyone thinks he should be cut. I don't believe PATFO are going to waste $600k for someone to just attend training camp. Butler may be Jimmer's biggest compe ion but Butler is old and he can't pass. However, PATFO will make a decision that they feel is best for the team. I trust them 100% based on their track record, experience, skill, and competency with evaluating NBA talent. Neither you nor I could ever be in their position because neither of us are qualified. That's much different than running for Congress. Anybody can run for Congress and some of the dumbest and most unqualified people have been elected to Congress. Very different animal.

[Chinook]

Everyone one in camp is a "signed" player. If they want to keep Butler, they just won't cut him. They don't have to renegotiate with him. Besides eating money, cutting Jimmer is the exact same as cutting anyone else.

[Chinook]

Your post.

Bro, if you came with that, there would have been no issue. Instead you came with things like,

This whole narrative about his shot needs fixing is a complete fallacy made up by some message board jerk off who thinks he's an NBA shooting coach.

And,

Thank God you don't evaluate NBA players for an NBA team.

So stop acting like you're just having an opinion and people are freaking out. You've been an asshole this whole time insulting me either directly or indirectly and to your own point, all you have to go on is, "Well the Spurs like him." The Spurs cut at least five players out of camp every year. We as fans don't have to like them all just because the team brought them in.

It's just a really ty strategy from you. You're extremely arrogant and pejorative, but you use completely unreliable means to support your own opinions. I can respect folks like Spurtacular who at least try (or tried) to have a legitimate discourse. You've probably just had nothing but miserable takes in your 200-plus posts. I hope that number stays low for the forum's sake.

[Spurtacular]

Everyone one in camp is a "signed" player. If they want to keep Butler, they just won't cut him. They don't have to renegotiate with him. Besides eating money, cutting Jimmer is the exact same as cutting anyone else.

Spurs would eat a mil plus luxury tax as far as I can decipher. I don't think the Spurs are short on forward strength; and Pop has explicitly mentioned that guard depth is a big concern and that that's why the Spurs signed Jimmer. This is just a glaring reality that ST'ers are completely ignoring.

Now, Jimmer and/or Bonner can be dumped in January or before and another player signed if they're not cutting it. But the Spurs have not suddenly decided that to be the case after a few preseason games. If they were that shaky on it, they never would've signed them in the first place.

[Birn]

Bro, if you came with that, there would have been no issue. Instead you came with things like,



And,



So stop acting like you're just having an opinion and people are freaking out. You've been an asshole this whole time insulting me either directly or indirectly and to your own point, all you have to go on is, "Well the Spurs like him." The Spurs cut at least five players out of camp every year. We as fans don't have to like them all just because the team brought them in.

It's just a really ty strategy from you. You're extremely arrogant and pejorative, but you use completely unreliable means to support your own opinions. I can respect folks like Spurtacular who at least try (or tried) to have a legitimate discourse. You've probably just had nothing but miserable takes in your 200-plus posts. I hope that number stays low for the forum's sake.

This is precisely the reason I don't post or read this forum very much. Because it is filled with S like you who are incapable of having an honest discussion about basketball. Instead, all I see are non stop red herrings, straw man arguments, and non-sequitur diversions. I've given you my opinions multiple times now and you still won't let it go because you are obsessed with people who disagree with you. Are you really that insecure? Let it go moron.

[tholdren]

This is precisely the reason I don't post or read this forum very much. Because it is filled with S like you who are incapable of having an honest discussion about basketball. Instead, all I see are non stop red herrings, straw man arguments, and non-sequitur diversions. I've given you my opinions multiple times now and you still won't let it go because you are obsessed with people who disagree with you. Are you really that insecure? Let it go moron.

Lol that's chinook. At least he says some things that make sense though. He is overly sensitive and where his vocabulary is robust, he lacks in critical thinking. He does resort to name calling and talking in circles or diverting from the main argument, but he does not recognize this. Live and let live, s or not. Keep posting, if nothing else you'll piss him off

[Splits]

Damn. Birn is the poster child for why enrollment to this site was shut down for so many years. Such a godawful poster. But it is hilarious seeing him getting his pushed in on anything he tries to weigh in on

[tholdren]

Damn. Birn is the u child for why enrollment to this site was shut down for so many years. Such a godawful poster. But it is hilarious seeing him getting his pushed in on anything he tries to weigh in on

Is splits Chinook.... Chris Broussard and his sources say yes

[Birn]

Lol that's chinook. At least he says some things that make sense though. He is overly sensitive and where his vocabulary is robust, he lacks in critical thinking. He does resort to name calling and talking in circles or diverting from the main argument, but he does not recognize this. Live and let live, s or not. Keep posting, if nothing else you'll piss him off

+1

Thanks for the insight. Much appreciated sir!

[Chinook]

This is precisely the reason I don't post or read this forum very much. Because it is filled with S like you who are incapable of having an honest discussion about basketball. Instead, all I see are non stop red herrings, straw man arguments, and non-sequitur diversions. I've given you my opinions multiple times now and you still won't let it go because you are obsessed with people who disagree with you. Are you really that insecure? Let it go moron.

Your opinion is that Jimmer is a shooter. Your justification is that Pop think's he's a shooter. My stance is that he is a poor shooter for what the Spurs need. My justification is that he has a bad release and that that has manifested itself in multiple ways that are easy to see. Instead of just ignoring it (since it's not like I started quoting you), you decided to be an asshole and make snide remarks.

That you have a ty opinion has never been an issue. I'm not trying to convince you I'm right, because my opinion doesn't matter. The issue has always been that you've carried yourself like an asshole when it's clear you lack the desire to think critically about your opinion. Many of us are on this board to disagree and present evidence. That's just discourse. You don't post here much because you don't belong. No one's gonna miss you. We can always use fewer assholes around these parts.

[tholdren]

Your opinion is that Jimmer is a shooter. Your justification is that Pop think's he's a shooter. My stance is that he is a poor shooter for what the Spurs need. My justification is that he has a bad release and that that has manifested itself in multiple ways that are easy to see. Instead of just ignoring it (since it's not like I started quoting you), you decided to be an asshole and make snide remarks.

That you have a ty opinion has never been an issue. I'm not trying to convince you I'm right, because my opinion doesn't matter. The issue has always been that you've carried yourself like an asshole when it's clear you lack the desire to think critically about your opinion. FOUR of us are on this board to disagree and present evidence. That's just discourse. You don't post here much because you don't belong. No one's gonna miss you. We can always use fewer assholes around these parts.

FIFY.

Side-note. Release has nothing to do with it. Kevin Martin

[Chinook]

FIFY.

Side-note. Release has nothing to do with it. Kevin Martin

Four? So everyone else agrees on everything? Who are the other three, btb?

[tholdren]

Four? So everyone else agrees on everything? Who are the other three, btb?

There are roughly 4 posters on here that attempt to respond to original arguments with some sort of evidence other than "yeah so." Everyone else either agrees, is only on to troll (which is funny), cannot comprehend, calls names/goes off on a tangent, or responds in an illogical manner.

[Chinook]

There are roughly 4 posters on here that attempt to respond to original arguments with some sort of evidence other than "yeah so." Everyone else either agrees, is only on to troll (which is funny), cannot comprehend, calls names/goes off on a tangent, or responds in an illogical manner.

Are you one of us?

[tholdren]

Are you one of us?

Just like yours, my opinion doesn't matter. You not responding to my comment on release is a telling sign of who is and who is not.

[Chinook]

Just like yours, my opinion doesn't matter. You not responding to my comment on release is a telling sign of who is and who is not.

It's a bad take, so I'm ignoring it. But I'm wondering if you think you're one of the "four" people who actually try to back up their arguments. Do you think people backing up their stances is a bad thing?

[tholdren]

It's a bad take, so I'm ignoring it. But I'm wondering if you think you're one of the "four" people who actually try to back up their arguments. Do you think people backing up their stances is a bad thing?

No I think that people backing their stance with illogical numbers and out of context stats, or other regurgitated "thoughts" are bad things i.e. Kevin Martin release and Jimmer release.