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  1. #151
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    If said the communities and the animals both benefit from the start. You keep grasping for straws and coming up empty. It's hard for you to accept that trophy hunting tags are actually beneficial to the animals hunted, and it's amusing watching you avoid admitting it.
    If all it takes is $6 million for the whole continent of Africa, I'm fine with shutting down the whole penis compensation industry.

    What part of that do you not understand?

    It's amusing watching you play stupid this whole conversation, but I'm really starting to think you are stupid. Let me know if your stupidity here is just an act.

  2. #152
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Again, first article I saw.

    But there is a counter example that is, for a change, really good news. In Rwanda, the government has taken a different approach to species preservation that appears to be working. Not long ago, the entire population of wild mountain gorillas was believed to have fallen to the extremely low number of some two hundred and fifty individuals, most of which lived in the nearly impenetrable jungle peaks of Rwanda, Uganda, and the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Rather than sell hunting permits, Rwanda now sells expensive ecotourism permits, enabling tourists to hike into the endangered species’ habitat with expert guides and see them at close range.

    Ecotourism has incentivized the neighboring communities to protect rather than poach the animals, much more effectively than the hunting permits. The Rwandan guides are trained and employed by the government. They are accompanied by local porters, some of whom are former poachers, who earn better wages than they would otherwise by helping the tourists navigate the difficult terrain. Tourists are only permitted to mingle with the gorillas for a total of an hour per day, in order to protect the animals’ privacy. And only a third of the total gorilla population is ever exposed to the human interlopers. Another third is studied by scientists, and the last third is left completely wild. Miraculously, even with these restrictions, the gorillas have become Rwanda’s No. 1 tourist attraction, and tourism is commonly said to be the country’s No. 1 industry. The ecotourism fees are paying for modern schools and electricity in the villages at the entrance to the national park where the gorillas live. And the gorilla population is growing.
    http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-d...trophy-hunting

    If this works, why not do it elsewhere?

    Your problem is that you have blinders on when guns are involved. Guns have to be the answer to you or your world falls apart.

  3. #153
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    Zimbabwe Officials Say Another American Illegally Killed a Lion in an Authorized Hunt

    A prominent American gynecologist illegally killed a lion in an authorized hunt this year in Zimbabwe, wildlife authorities there said Sunday.

    The Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife Management Authority said in a news release that Jan Casmir Sieski of Murrysville, Pa., took part in a hunt in April on a farm just outside Hwange National Park, where a popular lion was lured away and killed by an American dentist last month.


    No one by that name was found in public records. But the address given by the Zimbabwe government belongs to Jan Casimir Seski, a gynecological oncologist with a practice in Pittsburgh.


    Zimbabwean officials told The Associated Press that Dr. Seski killed a lion, shooting it with a bow and arrow, on a farm owned by a safari tour operator named Headman Sibanda.



    “The American conducted his hunt in an area where lion hunting is outlawed,” Caroline Washaya Moyo, Zimbabwe National Parks spokeswoman, told the AP. “The landowner who helped him with the hunt also did not have a quota for lion hunting.”

    Dr. Seski, 68, is considered a pioneer in the practice of bloodless surgery. He did not immediately return calls to his home and office seeking comment. He is the medical director of the Allegheny General Hospital’s Center for Bloodless Medicine and Surgery, and the director of the division of gynecological oncology there.


    Officials said the owner of the farm, Mr. Sibanda, had been arrested on su ion of breaching hunting regulations. He was accused of hunting without a quota and permit, and is cooperating with the police investigation, according to the release.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/03/wo...s&emc=rss&_r=0



  4. #154
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ TheSanityAnnex's Avatar
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    Again, first article I saw.



    http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-d...trophy-hunting

    If this works, why not do it elsewhere?

    Your problem is that you have blinders on when guns are involved. Guns have to be the answer to you or your world falls apart.
    I suggest you research this topic a bit more.
    Because the vast majority of the land where these trophy permits are issued is not land tourists go to see. There is no Eco-tourism money to be made there. The hunting lands are designated exactly because of this.

    You can keep quoting the New Yrker though, I've always respected their well informed articles on conservation efforts.

  5. #155
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    I suggest you research this topic a bit more.
    Because the vast majority of the land where these trophy permits are issued is not land tourists go to see. There is no Eco-tourism money to be made there. The hunting lands are designated exactly because of this.

    You can keep quoting the New Yrker though, I've always respected their well informed articles on conservation efforts.
    Again, if all it takes is $6 million to help the communities of the entire continent, I'm fine with shutting it all down.

    I'm waiting on your penis compensation argument.

    You've never read the New Yorker so don't be a about it now.

    Link your article from you subscription to African Conservation Weekly.

  6. #156
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ TheSanityAnnex's Avatar
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    Again, if all it takes is $6 million to help the communities of the entire continent, I'm fine with shutting it all down.

    I'm waiting on your penis compensation argument.

    You've never read the New Yorker so don't be a about it now.
    Your plan for keeping the private land open isn't feasible, you would be the death of all species.

  7. #157
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ TheSanityAnnex's Avatar
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    Zimbabwe Officials Say Another American Illegally Killed a Lion in an Authorized Hunt

    A prominent American gynecologist illegally killed a lion in an authorized hunt this year in Zimbabwe, wildlife authorities there said Sunday.

    The Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife Management Authority said in a news release that Jan Casmir Sieski of Murrysville, Pa., took part in a hunt in April on a farm just outside Hwange National Park, where a popular lion was lured away and killed by an American dentist last month.


    No one by that name was found in public records. But the address given by the Zimbabwe government belongs to Jan Casimir Seski, a gynecological oncologist with a practice in Pittsburgh.


    Zimbabwean officials told The Associated Press that Dr. Seski killed a lion, shooting it with a bow and arrow, on a farm owned by a safari tour operator named Headman Sibanda.



    “The American conducted his hunt in an area where lion hunting is outlawed,” Caroline Washaya Moyo, Zimbabwe National Parks spokeswoman, told the AP. “The landowner who helped him with the hunt also did not have a quota for lion hunting.”

    Dr. Seski, 68, is considered a pioneer in the practice of bloodless surgery. He did not immediately return calls to his home and office seeking comment. He is the medical director of the Allegheny General Hospital’s Center for Bloodless Medicine and Surgery, and the director of the division of gynecological oncology there.


    Officials said the owner of the farm, Mr. Sibanda, had been arrested on su ion of breaching hunting regulations. He was accused of hunting without a quota and permit, and is cooperating with the police investigation, according to the release.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/03/wo...s&emc=rss&_r=0


    By MacDonald Dzirutwe
    HARARE (Reuters) - As social media exploded with outrage this week at the killing of Cecil the lion, the untimely passing of the celebrated predator at the hands of an American dentist went largely unnoticed in the animal's native Zimbabwe.
    "What lion?" acting information minister Prisca Mupfumira asked in response to a request for comment about Cecil, who was at that moment topping global news bulletins and generating reams of abuse for his killer on websites in the United States and Europe.
    The government has still given no formal response, and on Thursday the papers that chose to run the latest twist in the Cecil saga tucked it away on inside pages.
    One le had to rely on foreign news agency copy because it failed to send a reporter to the court appearance of two locals involved.
    In contrast, the previous evening 200 people stood in protest outside the suburban Minneapolis dental practice of 55-year-old Walter Palmer, calling for him to be extradited to Zimbabwe to face charges of taking part in an illegal hunt.
    Local police are also investigating death threats against Palmer, whose location is not known. Because many of the threats were online, police are having difficulty determining their origins and credibility.
    Palmer, a lifelong big game hunter, has admitted killing Cecil with a bow and arrow on July 1 near Zimbabwe's Hwange national park, but said he had hired professional local guides with the required hunting permits and believed the hunt was legal.
    For most people in the southern African nation, where unemployment tops 80 percent and the economy continues to feel the after-effects of billion percent hyperinflation a decade ago, the uproar had all the hallmarks of a 'First World Problem'.
    "Are you saying that all this noise is about a dead lion? Lions are killed all the time in this country," said Tryphina Kaseke, a used-clothes hawker on the streets of Harare. "What is so special about this one?"
    As with many countries in Africa, in Zimbabwe big wild animals such as lions, elephants or hippos are seen either as a potential meal, or a threat to people and property that needs to be controlled or killed.
    The world of Palmer, who paid $50,000 to kill 13-year-old Cecil, is a very different one from that inhabited by millions of rural Africans who are more than occasionally victims of wild animal attacks.
    According to CrocBITE, a database, from January 2008 to October 2013, there were more than 460 recorded attacks by Nile crocodiles, most of them fatal. That tally is almost certainly a massive underrepresentation.
    "Why are the Americans more concerned than us?" said Joseph Mabuwa, a 33-year-old father-of-two cleaning his car in the center of the capital. "We never hear them speak out when villagers are killed by lions and elephants in Hwange."


    what lion?

  8. #158
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Your plan for keeping the private land isn't feasible, you would be the death of all species.
    Who said anything about keeping the land private?

  9. #159
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Zimbabwe Officials Say Another American Illegally Killed a Lion in an Authorized Hunt

    A prominent American gynecologist illegally killed a lion in an authorized hunt this year in Zimbabwe, wildlife authorities there said Sunday.

    The Zimbabwe Parks and Wildlife Management Authority said in a news release that Jan Casmir Sieski of Murrysville, Pa., took part in a hunt in April on a farm just outside Hwange National Park, where a popular lion was lured away and killed by an American dentist last month.


    No one by that name was found in public records. But the address given by the Zimbabwe government belongs to Jan Casimir Seski, a gynecological oncologist with a practice in Pittsburgh.


    Zimbabwean officials told The Associated Press that Dr. Seski killed a lion, shooting it with a bow and arrow, on a farm owned by a safari tour operator named Headman Sibanda.



    “The American conducted his hunt in an area where lion hunting is outlawed,” Caroline Washaya Moyo, Zimbabwe National Parks spokeswoman, told the AP. “The landowner who helped him with the hunt also did not have a quota for lion hunting.”

    Dr. Seski, 68, is considered a pioneer in the practice of bloodless surgery. He did not immediately return calls to his home and office seeking comment. He is the medical director of the Allegheny General Hospital’s Center for Bloodless Medicine and Surgery, and the director of the division of gynecological oncology there.


    Officials said the owner of the farm, Mr. Sibanda, had been arrested on su ion of breaching hunting regulations. He was accused of hunting without a quota and permit, and is cooperating with the police investigation, according to the release.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/03/wo...s&emc=rss&_r=0


    Are they making up this story too?

  10. #160
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    You seemed so concerned with the lion population decreasing because of hunters I thought for sure the biggest threats the lions faces would garner more of your concern, even outrage.

    Which is a bigger threat to the lion...hunters or habitat loss?
    the messageboard moderate outrage is for illegal hunts like the dentist. I simply question the legal ones that don't do anything to help increase populations.

    but do you really believe people should have the same outrage for farmers as they do for big game hunters?

  11. #161
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    Big game hunter Sabrina Corgatelli defends killing giraffe: They “are very dangerous animals that could hurt you very seriously”




    “everybody just thinks we’re cold-hearted killers, and it’s not that. There is a connection with the animal, and just because we hunt them doesn’t mean we don’t have a respect for them.”

    She added that she was, in effect, doing a public service, because despite being herbivores who mostly congregate in national parks, “giraffes are very dangerous animals” and “they could hurt you seriously very quickly.”

    Her it-could-be-coming-right-for-us defense aside, Corgatelli is correct to note that “everything I’ve done here is legal,” and questioned how people can “fault somebody because of their hobbies.

    Asked by Daly if she thinks her job could be in jeopardy, she replied with a question of her own — “How can an employer chastise you for something you do on your personal time that’s legally done?”

    http://www.salon.com/2015/08/03/big_...ery_seriously/

    Hey, lady, US employers can fire you for almost ANY reason, and they do, every day.

    typical totally ed up gun fellator



  12. #162
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ TheSanityAnnex's Avatar
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    Big game hunter Sabrina Corgatelli defends killing giraffe: They “are very dangerous animals that could hurt you very seriously”




    “everybody just thinks we’re cold-hearted killers, and it’s not that. There is a connection with the animal, and just because we hunt them doesn’t mean we don’t have a respect for them.”

    She added that she was, in effect, doing a public service, because despite being herbivores who mostly congregate in national parks, “giraffes are very dangerous animals” and “they could hurt you seriously very quickly.”

    Her it-could-be-coming-right-for-us defense aside, Corgatelli is correct to note that “everything I’ve done here is legal,” and questioned how people can “fault somebody because of their hobbies.

    Asked by Daly if she thinks her job could be in jeopardy, she replied with a question of her own — “How can an employer chastise you for something you do on your personal time that’s legally done?”

    http://www.salon.com/2015/08/03/big_...ery_seriously/

    Hey, lady, US employers can fire you for almost ANY reason, and they do, every day.

    typical totally ed up gun fellator


    Am I correct in assuming you own a farm and personally slaughter all of the meat you consume?

  13. #163
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Internet mob "justice" is out of control

    http://www.vox.com/2015/7/30/9074865...er-mob-justice

  14. #164
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Ignorance of the law isn't a defense.

    How many times do you have to be told that?
    that depends, there are exceptions to that in US law (lambert v california)... but i can't pretend to be familiar with zimbabwean law

    that particular defense wouldn't even apply in this case, but just pointing out the fact that there can be exceptions to your blanket statement
    Last edited by spurraider21; 08-03-2015 at 03:25 PM.

  15. #165
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    Beyond Cecil the Lion: The Grisly and Unethical World of Wildlife Killing Contests

    Across America, wildlife-killing contests (WKCs) — multi-day gun events that often award prizes to the person who kills the most — are increasing in number and scope.

    More than 250 WKCs happened last year alone.

    The events are legal in every state except California, which became the first state to ban wildlife-killing contests in December.


    The most targeted species is the coyote, but WKCs target a wide range of species: Wolves, bobcats, badgers, foxes, skunks, prairie dogs and birds are all in the crosshairs.

    "Each of these species is a key part of healthy, functioning ecosystems," asserts the Center for Biological Diversity (CBD).

    "Killing contests devalue native wildlife and glorify wasteful killing, while disrupting natural processes … [WKCs] ignore the ecological value of their target species and can actually exacerbate conflicts with livestock.

    Peer-reviewed studies on coyotes and wolves demonstrate this result."

    http://www.alternet.org/environment/beyond-cecil-lion-grisly-and-unethical-world-wildlife-killing-contests

    "sportsmen" promoting wildlife conservation becaus they love and respect wildlife with all the Christian hearts!



  16. #166
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ TheSanityAnnex's Avatar
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    Beyond Cecil the Lion: The Grisly and Unethical World of Wildlife Killing Contests

    Across America, wildlife-killing contests (WKCs) — multi-day gun events that often award prizes to the person who kills the most — are increasing in number and scope.

    More than 250 WKCs happened last year alone.

    The events are legal in every state except California, which became the first state to ban wildlife-killing contests in December.


    The most targeted species is the coyote, but WKCs target a wide range of species: Wolves, bobcats, badgers, foxes, skunks, prairie dogs and birds are all in the crosshairs.

    "Each of these species is a key part of healthy, functioning ecosystems," asserts the Center for Biological Diversity (CBD).

    "Killing contests devalue native wildlife and glorify wasteful killing, while disrupting natural processes … [WKCs] ignore the ecological value of their target species and can actually exacerbate conflicts with livestock.

    Peer-reviewed studies on coyotes and wolves demonstrate this result."

    http://www.alternet.org/environment/beyond-cecil-lion-grisly-and-unethical-world-wildlife-killing-contests

    "sportsmen" promoting wildlife conservation becaus they love and respect wildlife with all the Christian hearts!


    Am I correct in assuming you own a farm and personally slaughter all of the meat you consume?

  17. #167
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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  18. #168
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Well, it appears to me that Zimbabwe isn't upset about our hunter at all. It appears activists created all this outrage, and it's fake.

    They have ruined a man. I think these activists are the evil people.
    Last edited by Wild Cobra; 08-05-2015 at 12:25 PM.

  19. #169
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    lol appears

  20. #170
    Board Man Comes Home Clipper Nation's Avatar
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    Did all those Americans signing pe ions understand that lions actually kill people? That all the talk about Cecil being “beloved” or a “local favorite” was media hype? Did Jimmy Kimmel choke up because Cecil was murdered or because he confused him with Simba from “The Lion King”?

    In my village in Zimbabwe, surrounded by wildlife conservation areas, no lion has ever been beloved, or granted an affectionate nickname. They are objects of terror.... When the lion was finally killed, no one cared whether its murderer was a local person or a white trophy hunter, whether it was poached or killed legally. We danced and sang about the vanquishing of the fearsome beast and our escape from serious harm.

    The killing of Cecil hasn’t garnered much more sympathy from urban Zimbabweans, although they live with no such danger. Few have ever seen a lion, since game drives are a luxury residents of a country with an average monthly income below $150 cannot afford.

    Don’t misunderstand me: For Zimbabweans, wild animals have near-mystical significance. We belong to clans, and each clan claims an animal totem as its mythological ancestor. Mine is Nzou, elephant, and by tradition, I can’t eat elephant meat; it would be akin to eating a relative’s flesh. But our respect for these animals has never kept us from hunting them or allowing them to be hunted.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/05/op...for-lions.html

  21. #171
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ TheSanityAnnex's Avatar
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    "And Americans who can’t find Zimbabwe on a map are applauding the nation’s demand for the extradition of the dentist, unaware that a baby elephant was reportedly slaughtered for our president’s most recent birthday banquet."

  22. #172
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Cecil probably did at one time


  23. #173
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ TheSanityAnnex's Avatar
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    Why have the guides been charged and not the dentist?
    Are you an expert on how the Zimbabwe legal system functions when charging non-citizen poachers who have fled the country? Or statute of limitations on charging a crime in Zimbabwe? You realize it's only been 5 days since they found out what happened? Do you have inside sources informing you that he has not been charged, or won't be?
    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-...l-lion-n442931

    An American dentist who killed a prized Zimbabwean lion named Cecil will not be charged because he had obtained the legal authority to slay the animal, a minister in the country reportedly said Monday.
    Walter Palmer, a 55-year-old dentist from Minnesota, sparked global outrage in July after he allegedly paid $50,000 to use a bow to hunt the animal — a tourist favorite and the subject of an Oxford University study.


    But on Monday, Environment Minister Oppah Muchinguri-Kashiri told reporters, including Reuters, that Palmer's hunting papers were all in order and therefore he would not be charged.

    "We approached the police and then the Prosecutor General, and it turned out that Palmer came to Zimbabwe because all the papers were in order," she said, according to the news agency.

    Muchinguri Kashiri said Palmer was free to visit Zimbabwe as a tourist, but not as a hunter, Reuters said, implying he would not be issued the permits a hunter needs.


    Zimbabwean officials had previously suggested they would seek Palmer's extradition over the killing.


    Zimbabwean professional hunter Theo Bronkhorst is charged with breaching hunting rules during the hunt, in which Cecil was reportedly lured out of the Hwange National Park using bait. He and a game park owner, who has been charged with allowing the hunt, deny the charges.

  24. #174
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ TheSanityAnnex's Avatar
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    All the over Cecil is going to get 200 more Cecil's killed. Nice job!

    http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/news/world/zimbabwe-park-warns-it-may-shoot-200-surplus-lions-now-that-big-game-hunters-are-staying-home




    BUBYE VALLEY CONSERVANCY, Zimbabwe — It is the country where Cecil the lion was killed, sparking international anger against the American dentist who shot him.

    The outcry over Walter Palmer’s killing of Cecil drove other big-game hunters away from Zimbabwe, fearful they too would attract the ire of the public.

    But in what is being described as a side effect of the affair, Zimbabwe’s largest wildlife area says it now finds itself suffering from an overpopulation of lions.

    Bubye Valley Conservancy has more than 500 lions, the largest number in Zimbabwe’s diminishing wildlife areas.

    It has warned that its lion population has become unsustainable and that it may even have to cull around 200 as a result of what is being called “the Cecil effect.”
    Now Bubye is appealing for other ins utions or wildlife sanctuaries to take some of its lions.



    Conservationists estimate about half of Zimbabwe’s wildlife has disappeared since President Robert Mugabe’s seizure of white-owned land began in 2000, but Bubye has held on by attracting wealthy hunters whose fees support its wildlife work.

    But last year’s shooting of Cecil, in a conservancy bordering Hwange National Park, sparked a huge backlash against big-game hunting, and bolstered a U.S. plan to ban trophy hunting imports.

    Plummeting oil prices have further led to a drop in the number of visitors from U.S. states such as Texas, from where traditionally large numbers of hunters go to Zimbabwe.
    Bubye’s lions are decimating populations of antelope, along with other animals such as giraffe, cheetah, leopards and wild dogs, after the driest summer on record kept grasses low and made the small game easy targets.

  25. #175
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ TheSanityAnnex's Avatar
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    Will a quote from the actual conservation trump your source?
    Yeah "as bad as trophy hunting can be" implies it's a problem. The article never said it's "the" problem. That was all you.

    you have reading comp issues, tbh.
    http://bubyevalleyconservancy.com/conservation/



    But what do you do with excess lions? There is no space left in Africa for them; everywhere that can have lions already does, and their greatest threat is habitat destruction and intolerance by local communities that encroach on wildlife areas in compe ion for grazing with the natural prey of lions, and subsequently persecute them in retaliation for killing livestock. And, despite the sensation, responsible trophy hunting cannot significantly affect lion population density or long-term persistence – which is really the definition of sustainable resource management.

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