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  1. #2401
    Veteran DMC's Avatar
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    good for sweden.

    but look at what that provides, its not just healthcare.

    elderly care/retirement homes, child support for children up to 16, 480 days of paid parental leave, free daycare for kids under 7, greater disability benefits than we have here, no tuition for colleges or even grad schools.

    my wife was born in sweden and moved to the states during her childhood. soon after was diagnosed with hodgkins, and sweden paid for all her care/treatment here in the states. dont even want to know how much it would have cost her fam out of pocket


    a) yeah, i mentioned this a few different times as a criticism of warren

    b) but ultimately warren released her funding plan which basically was a much more aggressive tax on the wealthy and employers and didnt actually raise taxes on the middle class, but tbh i dont think its as realistic a plan
    Do you have to be born in Sweden to get those benefits?

  2. #2402
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    I finally got some tax relief, starting this year. I don't think many people my age are eager to see that reversed. But, I can understand why Bernie appeals to very young voters. What he's advocating would only affect them positively.

  3. #2403
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Do you have to be born in Sweden to get those benefits?
    nah, just gotta be a citizen. her parents were born in iran, moved to sweden and became citizens there.

  4. #2404
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I finally got some tax relief, starting this year. I don't think many people my age are eager to see that reversed. But, I can understand why Bernie appeals to very young voters. What he's advocating would only affect them positively.
    not just young people. what about middle aged people who dont have high income, have kids in school, struggle to pay for health insurance, etc.

  5. #2405
    Veteran DMC's Avatar
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    nah, just gotta be a citizen. her parents were born in iran, moved to sweden and became citizens there.
    So to get benefits in Sweden you must have citizenship?

  6. #2406
    Veteran DMC's Avatar
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    not just young people. what about middle aged people who dont have high income, have kids in school, struggle to pay for health insurance, etc.
    Stop having kids.

  7. #2407
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    So to get benefits in Sweden you must have citizenship?
    i think so. not entirely familiar with their system.

  8. #2408
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Stop having kids.
    they already had them

  9. #2409
    Veteran DMC's Avatar
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    they already had them
    It's a personal choice to have kids. Personal choices can cause you to have either a better lifestyle or worse lifestyle. Other people who made more early sacrifices to have a better lifestyle later should not be punished to level up those who just ignored the debt to income ratio problems associated with having children.

  10. #2410
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    It's a personal choice to have kids. Personal choices can cause you to have either a better lifestyle or worse lifestyle. Other people who made more early sacrifices to have a better lifestyle later should not be punished to level up those who just ignored the debt to income ratio problems associated with having children.
    if you had a kid 20 years ago, you might have had a different expectation of what child care, health care, and college costs would be than what we currently see

    regardless of what you think the parents should have done, darrin's point was about who bernie appeals to... not if those people have made perfect decisions in hindsight

  11. #2411
    Veteran DMC's Avatar
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    if you had a kid 20 years ago, you might have had a different expectation of what child care, health care, and college costs would be than what we currently see
    You're describing a rare problem, no doubt - we saved for college but didn't factor in the increase in costs. Mostly they didn't save for and the kid will either join the military or struggle through the 20's and, if fortunate, smart or lucky, land a decent gig somewhere along the way so they have a stable career and can better plan for their own children's futures.

    regardless of what you think the parents should have done, darrin's point was about who bernie appeals to... not if those people have made perfect decisions in hindsight
    Doesn't need to be perfect decisions - sometimes having the child is the perfect decision even if it means you struggle early on, and the last thing I'd do is tell them what they can or cannot do with their own bodies, but I am not going to pay for it.

  12. #2412
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    You're describing a rare problem, no doubt - we saved for college but didn't factor in the increase in costs. Mostly they didn't save for and the kid will either join the military or struggle through the 20's and, if fortunate, smart or lucky, land a decent gig somewhere along the way so they have a stable career and can better plan for their own children's futures.

    Doesn't need to be perfect decisions - sometimes having the child is the perfect decision even if it means you struggle early on, and the last thing I'd do is tell them what they can or cannot do with their own bodies, but I am not going to pay for it.
    like i showed earlier in the discussion about college tuition, years ago the student could pay it off themselves with a frickin summer job, so "saving up for college" wasn't necessarily a thing, and not something that every parent thought about before boning. not to mention, college degrees have become a lot more common than before, and are becoming more and more of a barrier to entry in professional fields. somebody born 50 years ago who had kids 20-25 years ago would have had a very different perspective than they do now in hindsight, nothwithstanding the cost increase


  13. #2413
    Veteran DMC's Avatar
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    I went to college in the early 90's and it was expensive then, no summer job was going to pay for it, even with the GI bill. If you have a 20 year old kid, that kid was born in 2000. College was not summer job cheap then. Even in the early 80's the Army was touting the GI bill to get people to enroll. I didn't go to college for fun. Even after I left the military with the best military training in my career field, I saw degrees as being almost a requirement if you didn't want to be entry level for 5 years and some jobs like engineering you likely couldn't crack at all by then without a degree.

    So knowing what we know now, how many people are actually saving up for their kid's college vs just boning and spitting out trophies?

  14. #2414
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Children= trophies

    That's the future, you dumb .

  15. #2415
    Veteran DMC's Avatar
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    Children= trophies

    That's the future, you dumb .
    Teach them well and let them lead the way.

  16. #2416
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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  17. #2417
    ( _)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) AaronY's Avatar
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    Did people really believe Obama would do this


  18. #2418
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Did people really believe Obama would do this


    Seriously doubt it

  19. #2419
    ( _)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) AaronY's Avatar
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    Seriously doubt it
    Bernie world has a little of the same conspiracy mindset as Trump voters tbh. The main Bernie Sanders subbreddit just banned CNN for being "fake news" (srs) but then pushed a poll from CNN to the front page because it showed Bernie doing well. It's fake news until it's something good

    then they complained about CNN's wording the whole thread because it wasn't complimentary enough

  20. #2420
    Free at last. TheGreatYacht's Avatar
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    CNN = Clinton News Network

  21. #2421
    Veteran DMC's Avatar
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    Bernie world has a little of the same conspiracy mindset as Trump voters tbh. The main Bernie Sanders subbreddit just banned CNN for being "fake news" (srs) but then pushed a poll from CNN to the front page because it showed Bernie doing well. It's fake news until it's something good

    then they complained about CNN's wording the whole thread because it wasn't complimentary enough
    Kobestans

  22. #2422
    Veteran DMC's Avatar
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    CNN = Clinton News Network
    Thanks, that's the first time I ever heard that.

  23. #2423
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Bernie world has a little of the same conspiracy mindset as Trump voters tbh. The main Bernie Sanders subbreddit just banned CNN for being "fake news" (srs) but then pushed a poll from CNN to the front page because it showed Bernie doing well. It's fake news until it's something good

    then they complained about CNN's wording the whole thread because it wasn't complimentary enough

    CNN is pretty terrible, tbh

  24. #2424
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    With a grain of salt, because polling and months to go until the election. This blog argues that Sanders may outperform Biden in the Electoral College in battleground states even though he trails in national polls:


    While Biden leads in several states, these are either states that Sanders wins too (Michigan, Nevada) or states where both nevertheless lose (Georgia, Iowa). Sanders, meanwhile, overperforms where it counts: in states with smaller margins like Florida and New Hampshire.
    https://www.carlbeijer.com/2020/01/s...et-in.html?m=1

  25. #2425
    ( _)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) AaronY's Avatar
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    CNN is pretty terrible, tbh
    I don't watch CNN but some of it is that the average cable news viewer is like 65 and that is Bernie's weakest group by far so the audience probably dislikes him more hence there is more of an audience for negative coverage. Same thing with the "Bernie blackout" on cable news or whatever as he polls at 8% among 65+ so less interest in him than in Biden who polls at 40% with the olds

    Same reason a progressive site that targets young people is not going to run pro-Joe Biden pieces but instead s on him every day as it's what their audience wants. They're not clicking on a Joe Biden human interest stories.

    People bag on Fox News for having Trump's in their mouth but if Fox put on anti-Trump show in the Hannity slot their ratings would plummet down to zero. I guess my point some of the "conspiracies" are just what that particular audience wants ratings wise

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