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  1. #2276
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I know the difference between a liberterian (classical liberal), neoconservative, paleoconservative, alt-light and alt-right. I don't strawman like you cuz I actually get off my left-wing echo chamber and hear all sides.
    No. You have your echo chambers. You’ve got the progressive stuff with kulinski and dore and then your Jew conspiracy guys

  2. #2277
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    What about high cost of legal representation? Sure, you can go with a public defender but the more wealthy get seasoned trial lawyers thus an imbalanced outcome vs the lower income population. Do you want the federal government to run that? So anyone can get legal representation, Universal Legal Representation paid for by taxpayer money. Are you willing to cap out at at GS 13?

    These people you talk about still get medical care. There's a reason immigrants flood the borders, especially pregnant women, so they can take advantage of the free medical care in the US. Sure it costs taxpayers, but so would the universal HC you're talking about. The difference is the level of care when your doctor isn't tasked with 200 patients a week. Being broke should not be a viable method of survival.
    You work for reduced rates and have a waiting list of "clients". How many low income earners cannot afford good legal representation? Why should the wealthy have better legal representation? I say no one gets to pick their lawyer. They get taken from a pool of lawyers, all working for the government, so that no one buys better legal representation.
    I don’t think all industry should be state operated. I think having your health taken care of is the most basic of human rights, and that’s something that should be provided to all via taxpayer funding. If you also want to spend more money to try some “alternative medicine” or get non essential cosmetic procedures, i have no problem with people paying for that.

    I don’t think the same way for every industry or field. With that being said public defenders are a cons utional right and i would agree that they are undermanned and underfunded. If you think the entire legal field should also be state provided, then go vote for somebody who agrees with you there. I’m not your guy. There are other places that give free and pro bono services to the poor. During law school i spent a year working at the low income taxpayer clinic where we gave free legal aid to poor people who were in trouble with the IRS or the state level franchise tax board, for instance.

    And if healthcare is free like you’re saying how do people go bankrupt over medical bills or ever buy insurance?

  3. #2278
    Pronouns: Your/Dad TheGreatYacht's Avatar
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    Tucker Carlson > CNN & MSNBC

  4. #2279
    Pronouns: Your/Dad TheGreatYacht's Avatar
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    Tucker Carlson Explains The Appeal Bernie Sanders Has To Republicans


    BOOM

  5. #2280
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    At some point smearing any and all Dems as socialists will cease to be an effective tactic, regardless how well it plays to the lumpentrumpetariat. There are signs this might already be the case.
    Strawman

  6. #2281
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    I don’t think all industry should be state operated. I think having your health taken care of is the most basic of human rights, and that’s something that should be provided to all via taxpayer funding. If you also want to spend more money to try some “alternative medicine” or get non essential cosmetic procedures, i have no problem with people paying for that.

    I don’t think the same way for every industry or field. With that being said public defenders are a cons utional right and i would agree that they are undermanned and underfunded. If you think the entire legal field should also be state provided, then go vote for somebody who agrees with you there. I’m not your guy. There are other places that give free and pro bono services to the poor. During law school i spent a year working at the low income taxpayer clinic where we gave free legal aid to poor people who were in trouble with the IRS or the state level franchise tax board, for instance.

    And if healthcare is free like you’re saying how do people go bankrupt over medical bills or ever buy insurance?
    Its not a human right for anyone to be required to work for free. Seeking healthcare is a right, getting it is a privilege.

    Not sure about your 2nd question. I did not say HC is free. In fact I said the opposite.

  7. #2282
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Its not a human right for anyone to be required to work for free.
    i never said anyone should be required to work for free.

    Seeking healthcare is a right, getting it is a privilege.
    this is where there is the fundamental disagreement. i think getting healthcare is a basic human right, particularly in a country that actually has the resources to provide everybody with it.

    Not sure about your 2nd question. I did not say HC is free. In fact I said the opposite.
    was referring to this
    What about high cost of legal representation? Sure, you can go with a public defender but the more wealthy get seasoned trial lawyers thus an imbalanced outcome vs the lower income population. Do you want the federal government to run that? So anyone can get legal representation, Universal Legal Representation paid for by taxpayer money. Are you willing to cap out at at GS 13?

    These people you talk about still get medical care. There's a reason immigrants flood the borders, especially pregnant women, so they can take advantage of the free medical care in the US. Sure it costs taxpayers, but so would the universal HC you're talking about. The difference is the level of care when your doctor isn't tasked with 200 patients a week. Being broke should not be a viable method of survival.

  8. #2283
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Looks like it's a prediction more than anything.

  9. #2284
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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  10. #2285
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Nah, that was what you were talking about -- the obviousness of the right wing to context, qualifiers and actual policy.

  11. #2286
    Veteran Isitjustme?'s Avatar
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    Thats one poll tbh. Biden has a lead in all the averages but its tightening. Two other polls today showed him behind but hes definitely gaining.


  12. #2287
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    of course its just one poll. the article was about that one poll

  13. #2288
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    Good news/bad news imo. If Biden places in second in Iowa and NH and Bernie wins it, that still leaves super tuesday where Biden is expected to clean house.

    Bernie could use Warren right about now.

  14. #2289
    Veteran Isitjustme?'s Avatar
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    of course its just one poll. the article was about that one poll
    Oh, I didnt know you were complaining about the headline thought you were claiming he was in the lead

  15. #2290
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    i never said anyone should be required to work for free.
    If healthcare is a basic human right, someone has to provide it. I think it's kind and sensible to provide healthcare, but I don't think it's a basic human right.
    this is where there is the fundamental disagreement. i think getting healthcare is a basic human right, particularly in a country that actually has the resources to provide everybody with it.
    Who's responsible for providing that basic human right? What does it encompass? Are surgeries included, like cosmetic, sex changes, liposuction, stomach staples, organ transplants, etc???

    I cannot imagine someone being ty enough to deny help to someone in dire need of it, but healthcare also includes preventive care. Is it a human rights violation to deny someone braces, a retainer, free cleanings? In fact, anything someone cannot pay for that's healthcare related you think is their right to just have it?

    was referring to this
    That's their mindset. To them it's free, they are never going to pay for it. I even said "Sure it costs the taxpayers" in the very next sentence so I still don't get your objection.

  16. #2291
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Nah, that was what you were talking about -- the obviousness of the right wing to context, qualifiers and actual policy.
    I never called any other democrat on the ticket a socialist. So yes it was a strawman. Calling Bernie a socialist when he calls himself a democratic socialist isn't a stretch and it's not necessarily a prelude to calling all democrats socialists.

  17. #2292
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    If healthcare is a basic human right, someone has to provide it.
    sure. and nobody is saying it should be done for free. thats why its going to be taxpayer funded

    I think it's kind and sensible to provide healthcare, but I don't think it's a basic human right.
    and i disagree. thats ok.

    Who's responsible for providing that basic human right? What does it encompass? Are surgeries included, like cosmetic, sex changes, liposuction, stomach staples, organ transplants, etc???
    i'm ok with allowing the government to take a stab at laying out what is or isn't part of the package. if it ends up needing tweaks they can do so. i mean, right now you can have an insurance policy which (notwithstanding copays and deductibles) will cover some of those things but not all of those things. nothing prevents the government provided coverage from doing the same

    I cannot imagine someone being ty enough to deny help to someone in dire need of it, but healthcare also includes preventive care. Is it a human rights violation to deny someone braces, a retainer, free cleanings? In fact, anything someone cannot pay for that's healthcare related you think is their right to just have it?
    well, bernie's plan, for instance, would include dental care. thats not to say you can go get a cleaning done once a month without any out of pocket expense. there would likely be some standard amount. i know for instance, a lot of vision plans allow you to have 1 exam per year, and will let you get new glasses frames every 2 years, or something like that. that would appear to be a sensible way to approach these things

    there doesnt need to be a slippery slope here... well if you're going to allow health care then you have to allow every single type of preventative care i can list off the top of my head... no.

    That's their mindset. To them it's free, they are never going to pay for it. I even said "Sure it costs the taxpayers" in the very next sentence so I still don't get your objection.
    why doesnt everybody just do that then? people who go to the ER without insurance double their chances of filing for BK within 5 years. an expansion of medicare funding would also make that easier on the hospitals who no longer have to find a way to make the money up

  18. #2293
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    sure. and nobody is saying it should be done for free. thats why its going to be taxpayer funded


    and i disagree. thats ok.


    i'm ok with allowing the government to take a stab at laying out what is or isn't part of the package. if it ends up needing tweaks they can do so. i mean, right now you can have an insurance policy which (notwithstanding copays and deductibles) will cover some of those things but not all of those things. nothing prevents the government provided coverage from doing the same


    well, bernie's plan, for instance, would include dental care. thats not to say you can go get a cleaning done once a month without any out of pocket expense. there would likely be some standard amount. i know for instance, a lot of vision plans allow you to have 1 exam per year, and will let you get new glasses frames every 2 years, or something like that. that would appear to be a sensible way to approach these things

    there doesnt need to be a slippery slope here... well if you're going to allow health care then you have to allow every single type of preventative care i can list off the top of my head... no.


    why doesnt everybody just do that then? people who go to the ER without insurance double their chances of filing for BK within 5 years. an expansion of medicare funding would also make that easier on the hospitals who no longer have to find a way to make the money up
    So you think their basic human right should be limited for people who cannot pay for it? You need to rethink your position on this. Maybe you should back away from the "basic human right" angle and say "basic human need". If it's a right, then someone would have to be held criminally liable if that right was denied to them, since it's a human rights violation. If I needed a kidney transplant and couldn't get one because I was too low on the donor list, my human rights are being violated.

    Some of your comments are so naive I cannot even begin to address them.

  19. #2294
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    I never called any other democrat on the ticket a socialist. So yes it was a strawman. Calling Bernie a socialist when he calls himself a democratic socialist isn't a stretch and it's not necessarily a prelude to calling all democrats socialists.
    Only if you ignore context, history, qualifiers and policy.

    Go for it!

  20. #2295
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    So you think their basic human right should be limited for people who cannot pay for it? You need to rethink your position on this. Maybe you should back away from the "basic human right" angle and say "basic human need". If it's a right, then someone would have to be held criminally liable if that right was denied to them, since it's a human rights violation. If I needed a kidney transplant and couldn't get one because I was too low on the donor list, my human rights are being violated.
    im not interested in your usual semantic debates tbh

  21. #2296
    LMAO koriwhat's Avatar
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    Only if you're ignorant of history, context and policy.

    Go for it!
    bernie is a socialist... he's communist s who's two faced and the bottom to his dom hillary the .

  22. #2297
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    bernie is a socialist... he's communist s who's two faced and the bottom to his dom hillary the .
    take your meds bro... get help

    please

  23. #2298
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    im not interested in your usual semantic debates tbh
    But your argument hinges on it being a basic human right. If you're just using hyperbole, that changes everything.

  24. #2299
    LMAO koriwhat's Avatar
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    take your meds bro... get help

    please
    truth hurts huh? if you can counter my argument then do so but you can't so here we are with your stupid lame meaningless jabs. bernie and bernie bros like yourself too.

  25. #2300
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    But your argument hinges on it being a basic human right. If you're just using hyperbole, that changes everything.
    i think it should be considered a human right. for whatever its worth, the UN's declaration of human rights includes medical care.

    you seem to be less comfortable with that term and prefer than i call it a need. i dont think the distinction is relevant in this discussion. there's a reasonable way to protect and ensure human rights are preserved. just because you cant get a daily dental cleaning doesnt mean your rights are being "limited." but the government has to act in a reasonable way.

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