Was Aldridge worth it, tbh?

[apalisoc_9]

Current Kawhi is 25+PPG guy, he just doenst get the ball enough he was 4-6 and 7-7 for crying out loud. The issue with Aldridge is that since they paid him 80 million dollars the spurs are forced to play in a manner that benefits his game offensiveley, the problem is that its not going to work out against the thunder, warriors, cavs..really the only foreasable contenders in the next three years.

The token Aldridge post ups has to GO. It works against the terrence jones and the Kelly olynyks of the but not against real contenders. Kawhi has to look up to 35 year old parker and freaking mills and 40 year old ginobili to run the point Jesus...The spurs are a great team now, but it wouldnt surprise me to see them collapse next year or even this year.

[spursistan]

I still think he's been a net positive (as the 5 man lineups and overall team success this season illustrates). People are just overreacting because the LMA signing doesn't put on us on the level of the Warriors, whose main core players are all at their prime/peaks right now.

No team thus far has been anywhere near the Warriors. Beating a 15-1 (at home) Cavs team by 40? And then going into Chicago (a pretty good team) and beating them by 30?

I don't know how you beat them. I thought maybe we were the best matchup because Kawhi/Green are the only 2 players who've seemed to be able handle Klay/Curry over the past few season, but Curry has seemed to figure out the Spurs now, at least in this game.

My worries are still on the offensive end..Spurs inability to generate TO-safe looks will bury them vs this team..Ball in hands of Lebron/Conley-- two teams that had managed to muck it up with relative succes for half series-- is far different from having it in Parker/Ginobili's at this stage..

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Have to co-sign what midnightpulp is saying. Regardless of what you think of LMA, what are the alternatives? You take the risk on Aldridge 10/10 times. Spurs aren't beating GS with Splitter/Belinelli/Baynes. There's no guarantee they land some other big name FA later on, and even if they do, there are risks with that too. Signing LMA was the right move, even if he ends up never being the player we'd hope he'd be.

That being said, it's still too early to "give up" on him, and I'm still fairly happy with how he's played. Just have to hope he continues to improve.

Tristan Thompson and Cory Joseph was the alternative. Draymond Green was the red carpet long shot. Middleton with Boban and Livio woulda done.

[apalisoc_9]

My worries are still on the offensive end..Spurs inability to generate TO-safe looks will bury them vs this team..Ball in hands of Lebron/Conley-- two teams that had managed to muck it up with relative succes for half series-- is far different from having it in Parker/Ginobili's at this stage..

Essentialy the spurs are relying on two PGs whose avergae age is 36 years old to go breakdown a PnR defense that consist of Green-Bogut-Thompson.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

better hope Davis is hurt on pelican night. Dwight, Josh Smith, and lame are all the same. i'll give lame the advantage thanks to Poop and Kawhi. I'm not sure what to make of the Magic. It wouldn't surprise me if lames embarrassment from this warriors game translates to a full on unraveling of this mirage season.

[BatManu20]

Have to co-sign what midnightpulp is saying. Regardless of what you think of LMA, what are the alternatives? You take the risk on Aldridge 10/10 times. Spurs aren't beating GS with Splitter/Belinelli/Baynes. There's no guarantee they land some other big name FA later on, and even if they do, there are risks with that too. Signing LMA was the right move, even if he ends up never being the player we'd hope he'd be.

That being said, it's still too early to "give up" on him, and I'm still fairly happy with how he's played. Just have to hope he continues to improve.

__________________________________________________

[midnightpulp]

Current Kawhi is 25+PPG guy, he just doenst get the ball enough he was 4-6 and 7-7 for crying out loud. The issue with Aldridge is that since they paid him 80 million dollars the spurs are forced to play in a manner that benefits his game offensiveley, the problem is that its not going to work out against the thunder, warriors, cavs..really the only foreasable contenders in the next three years.

The token Aldridge post ups has to GO. It works against the terrence jones and the Kelly olynyks of the world.

This myth of Kawhi "isn't getting the ball enough or in his spots" needs to go.

I've shown he gets nearly the same amount of front court touches as Kevin Durant.

And I can also show, through screen caps and such (if I had the energy), that he gets the ball in advantageous isolation positions nearly every game way more often than not. From these positions, he usually has a triple threat scenario: Jumper, Drive, or can turn and post. Sure, he'll be assertive at times, but many other times, he passes up the opportunity for whatever reason, which to me, looks like a lack of confidence in his dribble-drive game.

"His main weapon is the post!"

What is this, 2009? Offenses built around Kobe-style mid-post play would get eaten alive today. To be an elite scoring wing today, you need to be able to create off the dribble, whether that's through penetration or creating separation for your jumper. My main fear is that Kawhi's lack of vertical will always hinder him from reaching elite scoring potential. Look at how many of his finishes from the drive are below the rim and how he uses his length to get his shot off (which is usually a circus looking shot)? Lebron, KD, even fat Melo usually throw it down in the same situation.

Why do you think Kawhi doesn't get to the line as much as other stars (and no, it's not ref bias)?

Maybe this will be another facet to his game he'll figure out how to add, but it's more him not yet having a complete offensive game that holds him back from 25ppg and such than it is with the Spurs "ignoring" him.

[midnightpulp]

Tristan Thompson and Cory Joseph was the alternative. Draymond Green was the red carpet long shot. Middleton with Boban and Livio woulda done.

No spacing.

Boban would've done? No spacing.

Livio? Sure, take a chance on a Euro project instead of pursuing one of the best PFs in the league.

And a starting wing was never on the Spurs radar since Danny Green was our it guy in that regard.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

No spacing.

Boban would've done? No spacing.

Livio? Sure, take a chance on a Euro project instead of pursuing one of the best PFs in the league.

And a starting wing was never on the Spurs radar since Danny Green was our it guy in that regard.

there's plenty shooters on the spurs. there's just a lot of slumping because players that have what lame has are infectious. they bring out the worst in guys like Manu and Green. Even good players like Kawhi and Mills are falling short now. lame is terminal cancer.

[apalisoc_9]

This myth of Kawhi "isn't getting the ball enough or in his spots" needs to go.

I've shown he gets nearly the same amount of front court touches as Kevin Durant.

And I can also show, through screen caps and such (if I had the energy), that he gets the ball in advantageous isolation positions nearly every game way more often than not. From these positions, he usually has a triple threat scenario: Jumper, Drive, or can turn and post. Sure, he'll be assertive at times, but many other times, he passes up the opportunity for whatever reason, which to me, looks like a lack of confidence in his dribble-drive game.

"His main weapon is the post!"

What is this, 2009? Offenses built around Kobe-style mid-post play would get eaten alive today. To be an elite scoring wing today, you need to be able to create off the dribble, whether that's through penetration or creating separation for your jumper. My main fear is that Kawhi's lack of vertical will always hinder him from reaching elite scoring potential. Look at how many of his finishes from the drive are below the rim and how he uses his length to get his shot off (which is usually a circus looking shot)? Lebron, KD, even fat Melo usually throw it down in the same situation.

Why do you think Kawhi doesn't get to the line as much as other stars (and no, it's not ref bias)?

Maybe this will be other facet to his game he'll figure out how to add, but it's more him not yet having a complete offensive game that holds him back from 25ppg and such than it is with the Spurs "ignoring" him.

The myth? Are you high bro? The guy had 3 shots in 20 freaking minutes today. Its pretty evident the system forces the ball to move around enough for everyone to get in rhytem. The problem is that everyone not named Kawhi is a fourth tier offensive option save for Boris or Parker so the question is, is it worth to get kawhi standing in the corner for durations of the game to get people in rhytem.

Majority of the positions that kawhi gets on semi triple threat positions are designed for him to pass the ball. There's a massive difference in the touches thay kawhi gets out of motion/set and a Play. Sets dont allow for Isolations. You essentially break up the offense. Plays that gets Durant on triple threat situations are plays set for him to score.

The Guy hardly gets any touches off screens. You expect him to score 25? Hes essentially an Isolation player with limited 3 point touches that is in an unfortuante situation where he has to cater to Manu and Parke who still needs the ball to be on their hands because of talent abvailability.

Playing with Ginobili and Parker in the backcourt is a tricky situation when your an SF that relies on triple threat situatin, ISO and bully ball. For example, Leonard scores very little when one is on the floor and the touches and usage DIP significantly when both are on the floors. Durant, Lebron etc never had to deal with that because they cams out Guns blazing as rookie. Kawhi is now a.great offensive player. But him and the backcourt many times see him as 2013 kawhi

[siraulo23]

Definitely worth it tbh, spurs would be limping into the playoffs without aldridge imo. Too much load for duncan and manu to carry at this point of their careers

[siraulo23]

Aldridge has shown up vs the Bulls, clippers etc...

No show vs the cavs/warriors

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Aldridge has shown up vs the Bulls, clippers etc...

No show vs the cavs/warriors

which teams made the finals of the playoffs last season?

[SAGirl]

Same here, I pointed it out as my #1 thing to watch out for in the other thread, especially with Tim out, and his body language throughout was Softridge, tbh...

I still think he can be more productive with TD holding his hand, playing hi/lo, etc... we'll see

That is still a red alert bc this might very well be TD's last season. I know some ppl are in denial, and it's not a certain thing. But we can say it is at least 50-50%.
If he needs Timmy to hold his hand we are in trouble in the long run.
Somehow I didn't expect him to show up, but I hoped he did.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

That is still a red alert bc this might very well be TD's last season. I know some ppl are in denial, and it's not a certain thing. But we can say it is at least 50-50%.
If he needs Timmy to hold his hand we are in trouble in the long run.
Somehow I didn't expect him to show up, but I hoped he did.

that was your sanity.

[siraulo23]

The spurs shoulda just brought everyone back

Run parker, manu and duncan to the ground and get the 5th seed. But green would be shooting better

yea right

[daslicer]

That is still a red alert bc this might very well be TD's last season. I know some ppl are in denial, and it's not a certain thing. But we can say it is at least 50-50%.
If he needs Timmy to hold his hand we are in trouble in the long run.
Somehow I didn't expect him to show up, but I hoped he did.

Honestly most people are delusional to believe the Spurs are going to have the same success they have had once Duncan retires. Duncan is a top 5 all time great in my eyes and in most pundits eyes a top 10 all time great. With that being said if LMA can play at high level with Duncan on the court that is good enough for me because it's all about this year or next year depending on when Duncan retires. After Duncan retires the spurs are not going to contend for a le. Kawhi and LMA are not special players like a Lebron,Curry,Durant.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

The spurs shoulda just brought everyone back

Run parker, manu and duncan to the ground and get the 5th seed. But green would be shooting better

yea right

they had rookies in their painfully slow development system that they could have added. there were other free agent targets that were younger, cheaper, and moxier than lame. there was also a trade market.

the spurs lost to the clipps because Splitter was gimpy, Griffin and Deandre was too much for Banger, and Bonner and Williams limited Poops already poor game rotation skills. the fix was replace bonner and williams with some potential. rest Splitter more. and cash in Banger and Beli for some more development projects so there was room for Boban and Simmons.

[SAGirl]

TD21 already diagnosed the problem with this team: Lack of perimeter firepower, explosive 3 point shooting, and the inability to get to the line (which is a big weakness if you're not a team that can volume shoot 3 pointers at a good percentage).

As much as I love Kawhi, I think my fears are coming true that his peak scoring ability (while maintaining good efficiency) just might be around the 18ppg-20ppg mark. Sure, he could average 25+ on a ty team where he can volume shoot, but for his efficiency to remain solid, he's a player who needs to pick his spots carefully and score within the offense. He's not Curry, Durant, Harden, Lebron, one of those players who can create spots for himself off the dribble. He's got a nice post game, and that's about it. I want him to become a dribble-drive beast, but I just don't think he has the ability (relatively low vertical, average, at best, ball handling, and seemingly low confidence). This is not a criticism. It's amazing that Kawhi has turned into the scoring threat he has despite those limitations, but it illustrates that he can't carry the perimeter scoring himself (like Curry did tonight, for example. We held the rest of their starters in check, but Curry broke out backs).

So Kawhi's perimeter running mates are:

Tony Parker. Has had a resurgence, but all of us sense the wheels are about to come off soon. It's just improbable that a 34 year old PG with that many miles can average 16-18 points on good shooting.

Danny Green: Lol. No one is holding this guy back. Not LMA, adjusting to the offense, etc. He's a d-league level talent that worked very hard to get where he is, but ultimately, he's a role player who will always be limited. Essentially Bruce Bowen, who would unfortunately be a liability (his offensive limitations wouldn't make up for his defensive contributions) in today's league.

Manu. Same thing as Parker. Too old and worn to be consistent.

And the rest are role players. Mills, Simmons, Anderson, Butler, etc. All the other elite teams in the league have at least 2 perimeter studs and star/fringe star big(s). The Spurs really are a team by committee. As much as that kind of overall depth can be an advantage, it can also be a detriment since there's so many moving parts.

LMA is a very, very small of the overall picture, and I will still argue that he's contributed more than he has taken, much more. Golden State is beating the out of everyone. Was up 40 at Cleveland and then went into Chicago and beat them by 30., so to decry his signing because the Spurs have the unfortunate luck of playing in a year that just might feature the best team pro basketball has ever seen is a bit knee-jerky.

And that said, there was really no other choice than to roll the dice. Standing pat and developing a bunch of 2nd round picks and Euro projects wasn't going to win anything.

All very good points. I agree. The state of our backcourt is concerning. Not long ago, sasaint was debating in our trade thread in the think tank whether we should consider trading for a guy like Jordan Clarkson, who apparently the Lakers are unsure whether they want to resign or not, although they have since backtracked on that. The point was that there is concern about the state of our backcourt.

I mostly disagreed with Harlem's conclusion that Danny is sucking bc of LMA. Listen we were not going to stand pat. Standing pat already got us a 1st round exit in the playoffs despite Timmy playing like a star, and turning back the clock like 5 years, a performance that probably would not have been sustainable all the way to a championship even if we survived the first round, bc he's old. This season it was not going to be the same. So Danny is a grown man and his struggles are his own.

LMA though, he's a jumpshooting big lacking skill in the post, he's not that crafty or determined, and Pop apparently wants to play him inside a whole lot, when he prefers to shoot. But standing pat was not an option. I would say, welcome to the world post Timmy/Manu. We have to get what is out there, and look at trades and draft. It is what it is.

Agree with your points Mid.

[midnightpulp]

The myth? Are you high bro? The guy had 3 shots in 20 freaking minutes today. Its pretty evident the system forces the ball to move around enough for everyone to get in rhytem. The problem is that everyone not named Kawhi is a fourth tier offensive option save for Boris or Parker so the question is, is it worth to get kawhi standing in the corner for durations of the game to get people in rhytem.

Majority of the positions that kawhi gets on semi triple threat positions are designed for him to pass the ball. There's a massive difference in the touches thay kawhi gets out of motion/set and a Play. Sets dont allow for Isolations. You essentially break up the offense. Plays that gets Durant on triple threat situations are plays set for him to score.

The Guy hardly gets any touches off screens. You expect him to score 25? Hes essentially an Isolation player with limited 3 point touches that is in an unfortuante situation where he has to cater to Manu and Parke who still needs the ball to be on their hands because of talent abvailability.

Playing with Ginobili and Parker in the backcourt is a tricky situation when your an SF that relies on triple threat situatin, ISO and bully ball. For example, Leonard scores very little when one is on the floor and the touches and usage DIP significantly when both are on the floors. Durant, Lebron etc never had to deal with that because they cams out Guns blazing as rookie. Kawhi is now a.great offensive player. But him and the backcourt many times see him as 2013 kawhi

Since when are shots "touches?" If Kawhi is passing up shots and advantageous situations to pass, then that's on him.

Hand-waving by saying, "Uh, it's obvious the offense is designed for him to pass..." isn't enough. Kawhi gets the ball with a CLEAR advantage and doesn't attack, and when you watch the motion of the other players, they're usually running to spots to create a driving lane/iso situation for Kawhi. I've seen Kawhi take a couple of weak dribbles and then pass it back to Duncan at the top of the key more times than I can count. And this move is further exacerbated since Kawhi often brings his defender with him (by dribbling in the direction where Duncan is at), ing up the spacing. You also seem to think "set plays" only allow for one result and result only. Any good play is going to be designed with the intent of generating a few options for a couple of different players. The way I see it, Kawhi isn't being assertive enough when the option is there for him.

Yeah, he didn't come out guns blazing, which why he isn't ready to be an elite offensive player yet. He doesn't have the experience nor the natural skill set of those players.

I would also argue that Kawhi facilitating more than ball dominating is a smart move. We're not winning anything with him or any other player ball dominating.

Also, this really shouldn't even be an argument. Kawhi is scoring enough. Problem is, he doesn't have a wing/guard player who can score near his clip (Durant has Westbrook, Lebron has Irving, Curry has Klay. All those 2nd options are threats to go off for 30 or 40 points at any given time). If you notice, it's something all the elite teams have in common. That's the biggest flaw in this team. Not lack of Kawhi touches, LMA, "Enrique," Pop, etc, etc. Sure, we got LMA to mitigate that problem somewhat, but the elite teams also have players about equal to LMA (Love, Draymond, Ibaka). It's pretty amazing the Spurs are actually this good.

The 2nd and 3rd best wing/guard scorers are a 34 and 37 year old, who are very, very inconsistent now. That's our Achilles heel. Nothing else. Handwringing over other factors is pretty much useless.

[dabom]

midnightpulp wants a super matt bonner.

[midnightpulp]

midnightpulp wants a super matt bonner.

No. I want a Russell Westbrook.

Our C/PF positions are fine, and insanely deep: LMA, Duncan, Boris, West, even Boban is pretty solid. If this were 2012 or something, we win the le.

But the Warriors can match our front court more than we can match their wings and guards. Our wing and guard depth after Kawhi is average to below average. If Manu and Tony turn back the clock and Simmons comes out of nowhere, then we have a shot.

[SAGirl]

Current Kawhi is 25+PPG guy, he just doenst get the ball enough he was 4-6 and 7-7 for crying out loud. The issue with Aldridge is that since they paid him 80 million dollars the spurs are forced to play in a manner that benefits his game offensiveley, the problem is that its not going to work out against the thunder, warriors, cavs..really the only foreasable contenders in the next three years.

The token Aldridge post ups has to GO. It works against the terrence jones and the Kelly olynyks of the but not against real contenders. Kawhi has to look up to 35 year old parker and freaking mills and 40 year old ginobili to run the point Jesus...The spurs are a great team now, but it wouldnt surprise me to see them collapse next year or even this year.

I think this is Timmy/Manu's last season. As great as they look still it has to end sometime, and you have to end it in a good note feeling satisfied that you helped the team and played well. These guys are not the kind to be a cadaver on the court and collect a paycheck. They compete hard, and I don't think either will want to retire/quit in the middle of the season, despite Pop making that sarcastic comment. He was trolling us. Just like Pop trolled us when he said he would retire with Tim. No, Timmy might not retire midseason bc he's not going to quit midseason on the team, he will do it quietly in the summer and one of these summers is it.

Manu said when he was ready he would not announce it ahead of time either. They can still play, but not dominate like they used to, and it has been an alarm for me since early season that the team depended on Manu so often to rescue games. I thought Pop played him too long in a blow out. Yea I am fangirl, but to me f*ck it. Anderson was terrible 3 minutes but he's 22, and Pop has shielded him from tough compe ion. It might wake him up, maybe you give him some experience and a wake up call to work on that shot, maybe he turns into someone you can keep or trade later on. Why play Manu in a 22 pt blowout? Bench Kawhi? Makes no sense, unless its Manu's last season and lets just let him do whatever he wants. Pop basically said Manu told the assistants he was not resting back to back and that was that.

I don't know, I am overreacting, but I see them as this is their last season.

[dabom]

No. I want a Russell Westbrook.

Our C/PF positions are fine, and insanely deep: LMA, Duncan, Boris, West, even Boban is pretty solid. If this were 2012 or something, we win the le.

But the Warriors can match our front court more than we can match their wings and guards. Our wing and guard depth after Kawhi is average to below average. If Manu and Tony turn back the clock and Simmons comes out of nowhere, then we have a shot.

Now you're making sense. I should bump that westbrook thread. Lot of gold in there.

[daslicer]

I think this is Timmy/Manu's last season. As great as they look still it has to end sometime, and you have to end it in a good note feeling satisfied that you helped the team and played well. These guys are not the kind to be a cadaver on the court and collect a paycheck. They compete hard, and I don't think either will want to retire/quit in the middle of the season, despite Pop making that sarcastic comment. He was trolling us. Just like Pop trolled us when he said he would retire with Tim. No, Timmy might not retire midseason bc he's not going to quit midseason on the team, he will do it quietly in the summer and one of these summers is it.

Manu said when he was ready he would not announce it ahead of time either. They can still play, but not dominate like they used to, and it has been an alarm for me since early season that the team depended on Manu so often to rescue games. I thought Pop played him too long in a blow out. Yea I am fangirl, but to me f*ck it. Anderson was terrible 3 minutes but he's 22, and Pop has shielded him from tough compe ion. It might wake him up, maybe you give him some experience and a wake up call to work on that shot, maybe he turns into someone you can keep or trade later on. Why play Manu in a 22 pt blowout? Bench Kawhi? Makes no sense, unless its Manu's last season and lets just let him do whatever he wants. Pop basically said Manu told the assistants he was not resting back to back and that was that.

I don't know, I am overreacting, but I see them as this is their last season.

I have said after the spurs won 5 they were playing with house money. There is nothing left to prove for Duncan,Manu there legacies are set regardless of whether or not they win another le. That is why these losses don't get to me unlike most people on this board. I just enjoy watching them play and don't care about the losses.