My eye test tells me that he is effective on the defensive end, so I am surprised that his Defensive +/- is only #74. The Offensive +/- of #208 does not surprise me at all. It is on the offensive end where he seems pretty invisible at times, and seems to gum up the works at others. But that is only based on my perceptions as a fan, not any "numbers".
The only stat I care about is winning. And that stat has us at 27-6 and 2nd place in the entire league, and like it or not Aldridge has had a hand in it. I don't understand how some can constantly complain about what we could be doing better where if it weren't for an all-time Historic start with a generational player, we would be the best in the league and everyone would be talking about the Spurs.
Fans enjoy being fans for many different reasons and on many different levels. If winning is all you care about, that's fine. A lot of fans on ST enjoy analytics and advanced metrics way beyond my comprehension. I am more inclined to just go with my "eye test" to evaluate how well the team and certain players seem to be playing. I enjoy winning as much as the next guy, but I also enjoy analyzing (on some level) how the game is played, how well the team is playing, and how well the various players are playing. That's how I enjoy being a fan. Ceperez and I (and others) are just having a discussion essentially about how good or bad our investment in LMA seems to be, whether there is a way to get a better return on our investment, and more generally about the future of the franchise at a pretty critical transition. If you do not like such "complaining" don't join in. Nobody is complaining about your not "complaining".
Lol again with "historic" and "generational player"? Common man, Stop Drinking The Kool Aid espn Gives you. He's just a shooter.
I am not really trying to help you in your argument, but you did make me curious about Tiago. So I looked up his RPM on ESPN for the last two seasons. I do understand the durability issue, but I still wanted to see his numbers when he was on the floor. In 2013-14 Tiago played in 59 games. His ORPM was 1.01, and his DRPM was 4.53. In 2014-15 Tiago played in 52 games. His OPRM was .59, and his DRPM was 2.7. In 2013-14, Tiago ranked #9 in the league in DRPM, and in 2014-15, he ranked #31. I didn't check his ORPMs.
Curry is definitely a generational player who's damned near a legend at this point. Only players in his cohort who could challenge him are Davis and Kawhi. I think even Durant and Westbrook will be forgotten more easily.
There you go. Numbers that validate the issue. LMA is able to hide behind the stellar defensive play of both Duncan and Leonard. Both are in the top 5.
just because you're a Spurs fan and the Dubs are our biggest obstacle to the le doesn't mean you can't open your eyes and recognize that Curry is arguably the best player in the league right now and is one of the greatest shooters of all time.
Perhaps this is what is going on: Kawhi and Tim (especially) have elevated their defensive games due to the presence of LMA? It just seems to me (and Pop, too, apparently) that LMA is a much better defender than expected. BTW, what are LMA's numbers from the last couple of seasons?
Steph Curry is the goldarnest pure shooter and one of the best scorers I have ever seen. But calling him "generational" and "a near legend" after 5+ seasons in the league is a little premature, IMHO.
No. If he sucked, or was even average, it would show in the team numbers. His DReb numbers and blocks are at career levels, in spite of losing 1/6th of his minutes. He's performing on D.
Just FYI, the eye test is a terrible way to judge performance. NBA GMs have gotten fired pretty regularly for using it,which is why any FO worth it's salt is using advanced analytics to make decisions, and why every arena in the NBA now has the SportVU cameras installed. The numbers don't lie. Your brain, otoh, can lie to you. It's called confirmation bias. You will always have an opinion about player A. If it's positive, you tend to remember the good plays. If it's negative, only t he bad ones. Either of those gets you into trouble as a talent evaluator.
Dig in and learn what advanced metrics mean. ORtg and DRtg are pretty easy. Each is a measure of how many points your team either scores or gives up per 100 possessions when you're on the floor.
The Gasol sip has sailed two summer ago, and neither parties should be looking back at it. Gasol had his chance to choose championship level team, and he has chosen "culture" & more money - nothing wrong with that, his choice, his right. LMA actually chose to be here, at least give him a season before calling it a quit & seek for a divorce.
Yes, l understand confirmation bias and ORtg and DRtg, and I love when some of you posters provide some advanced metrics in support of your positions. But I have the luxury of being a lazy fan and not a paid talent evaluator for some NBA front office. I appreciate advanced metrics, but I don't often spend the time to check them out, as I was curious enough to do for Tiago earlier. But there seems to be an odd paradox here. You say that LMA is playing good D, based on rebounds and blocks. That assessment confirms my (disfavored) eye test, but contradicts the DRtg for LMA cited by ceperez.
ceperez isn't citing DRtg, he's using DPM, which is a long range multi season rolling average type of stat. DRtg wouldn't support his views.
Oh, okay. I did not read your first comment closely enough. I did understand that he was using DRPM, but I thought that measured the number of points given up per 100 possessions. If it does not, I do not understand the stat. Moreover, it seems that DRtg measures what I thought DRPM measures. My ignorance showing... So what does DRtg show about LMA's defensive performance this year?
His DRtg of 95 is 7 points lower than any other season of his career. The best two on the Spurs are Tim and Kawhi at 91, and no one is over 100.
Validation of my eye test!
Thanks, exstatic for an introductory tutorial. Nice assist.
If DRPM is a multi season rolling average, then to go back to Tiago - his D must have seriously declined in 2014-15 for his RDPM to have dropped from #9 to #31. Right?
Tiago in his healthy season is ranked #9.
In an unhealthy season he was ranked #31.
Aldridge is ranked #79 even when he's healthy.
In the previous season, 14-15 LMA is ranked #159 in DRPM. This is in fact what Pop is alluding to, he's better defensive today that he has been previously. However, it is compared from an extremely low bar.
If, as exstatic states, DRPM is actually a multi-season rolling average, then isn't LMA actually playing lights out D this season to raise his #159 DRPM all the way to #79?
What a load of BS. DRtg is an average just like DPRM.
DRPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team defensive performance, measured in points allowed per 100 defensive possessions. As defined. It is an average for all the games played in the season.
In fact, I question the accuracy of DRTG because it is biased too much with the players on the court. Look Tony's is 99. Green is 96. Aldridge is 96. Compare that with DRPM which is drastically different for each player Tony is -.89, Green is .41 and Aldridge is 1.58. DRPM is a more accurate metric than you 'preferred' DRTG.
DRTG is a piss poor rating as compared to DRPM. DRPM is:
metric isolates the unique plus-minus impact of each NBA player by adjusting for the effects of each teammate, opposing player and coach. ... The RPM model sifts through more than 230,000 possessions each NBA season to tease apart the "real" plus-minus effects attributable to each player, employing techniques similar to those used by scientific researchers when they need to model the effects of numerous variables at the same time.
Last edited by ceperez; 12-30-2015 at 08:46 PM.
Both are averages for the season.
Yes, LMA has improved defensively. (Also confirmed by Pop) However it's from a very low bar.
Bulls going on a tailspin since he came back..might just offload him while he has value..he is starting to cancer it up apparently..
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-...erg-bulls-role
A source said on Tuesday morning that Noah remains unhappy with his current standing in the organization, and “still hasn't moved past losing his starting job'' late in training camp. The source went onto say that Noah “hasn't been a distraction by any means, but isn't the biggest [coach Fred] Hoiberg fan these days.''
You guys do understand that stats like DRtg are still a factor of the team you're on. It factors in blocks, steals, and defensive Reb. But then it looks at the Team defensive rating and adjusts for the "known" defensive stops in the stats. (If that doesn't make sense, look it up.)
Perimeter defenders who don't get a lot of steals will mostly reflect the DRtg of the team, because they don't get a lot of rebounds or defensive boards. Pop generally discourages gambling on defense, which limits steals.
The point is, that playing on a good defensive team will make a mediocre defender's DRtg look better. And you always have to use some judgment when looking at stats. They just don't fit off-the-rack. The good thing is that Pop, at least, understands that good defense is the result of a team effort. Always. The results say that Aldridge has been playing solid defense.
Interested in both Noah *and* Gasol. I wouldn't care for just Noah, too expensive and injury prone.
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