Last night's game from Parker was an example of how he needs to be that 3rd scorer

[midnightpulp]

I am on my phone so I cant type properly, but i 100% disagree on the thread topic. Tony is inconsistent and can drivble dribble you oyt of the game. He also has a tendency to highjack the offense.

Third scorer would be by comitte..whoever is playing better between Manu-Tony-Patty

As evidence with past games.

The problem is Manu and Patty are even more inconsistent. And the latter is one of the worst PG defenders in the NBA. Why do you think the Spurs signed Andre Miller? Because Patty matches up poorly with Livingston and other bigger guards. "Committee" would imply that Parker, Manu, and Patty are relatively equal threats to score the same amount of points at the same rate. They're not. Parker is a much bigger offensive threat than those two right now. I agree if Manu has another resurgence, but I'm not counting on it.

Here's how the rest of the "committee" is looking:

Danny Green is shooting .380 from the field and can't even finish a 2 on 1 fast break.

Tim Duncan is averaging 4.3 points in his last 5 games.

Manu is averaging 5.3 points since his return, despite having a 22 point game.

Boris is still fat and seems disinterested.

West is indeed steady and efficient, but not someone who is going to go Robert Horry Game 5 at this stage in his career.

I wish it weren't this way, but I don't see a viable 3 option threat right now other than Tony. And last night's game was a perfect example of the kind of scoring balance I'd like to see. If the bench didn't play like , the Spurs win by 20.

[apalisoc_9]

The problem is Manu and Patty are even more inconsistent. And the latter is one of the worst PG defenders in the NBA. Why do you think the Spurs signed Andre Miller? Because Patty matches up poorly with Livingston and other bigger guards. "Committee" would imply that Parker, Manu, and Patty are relatively equal threats to score the same amount of points at the same rate. They're not. Parker is a much bigger offensive threat than those two right now. I agree if Manu has another resurgence, but I'm not counting on it.

Here's how the rest of the "committee" is looking:

Danny Green is shooting .380 from the field and can't even finish a 2 on 1 fast break.

Tim Duncan is averaging 4.3 points in his last 5 games.

Manu is averaging 5.3 points since his return, despite having a 22 point game.

Boris is still fat and seems disinterested.

West is indeed steady and efficient, but not someone who is going to go Robert Horry Game 5 at this stage in his career.

I wish it weren't this way, but I don't see a viable 3 option threat right now other than Tony. And last night's game was a perfect example of the kind of scoring balance I'd like to see. If the bench didn't play like , the Spurs win by 20.

Parker has been so inconsistent this year too...

We should talk about this topic in a spyrsforum podcast or some . Still on my phone

[Mouth is Bleeding]

edit: meant to quote this post:

Hilarious.

If Parker has a great game, he's whoring out for points and assists and therefore needs to take more of a backseat to the rest of the offense.

If he doesn't put up stats, he's a ty PG who needs to take a backseat to Patty.

Parker could shoot 10-10 for 30 points with 15 assists and you'd say he's just a primadonna trying to look good and bump his stats, and that has no place on the Spurs, which is what you're basically doing already.

fine with him not putting up meaningless counting stats and generally fine with his usage this season which is part of why we're winning so much.

That's why this kind of go to guy ballhog outlier performance kind of worries me.

Take a backseat. Let Avery be the inspiration and use your ing energy to defend.

[ElNono]

The problem is Manu and Patty are even more inconsistent. And the latter is one of the worst PG defenders in the NBA. Why do you think the Spurs signed Andre Miller? Because Patty matches up poorly with Livingston and other bigger guards. "Committee" would imply that Parker, Manu, and Patty are relatively equal threats to score the same amount of points at the same rate. They're not. Parker is a much bigger offensive threat than those two right now. I agree if Manu has another resurgence, but I'm not counting on it.

Here's how the rest of the "committee" is looking:

Danny Green is shooting .380 from the field and can't even finish a 2 on 1 fast break.

Tim Duncan is averaging 4.3 points in his last 5 games.

Manu is averaging 5.3 points since his return, despite having a 22 point game.

Boris is still fat and seems disinterested.

West is indeed steady and efficient, but not someone who is going to go Robert Horry Game 5 at this stage in his career.

I wish it weren't this way, but I don't see a viable 3 option threat right now other than Tony. And last night's game was a perfect example of the kind of scoring balance I'd like to see. If the bench didn't play like , the Spurs win by 20.

It's a matter of strengths, mid... I rather West take jumpshots than Tony. I rather have Manu moving the ball side to side looking for an opening, than dribble, dribble, dribble. Even at 38%, I rather Green take a 3 than TP... Bobo in the post (I think he's bored ATM, tbh) and Tim at the elbow looking for LMA are better options than a Manu stepback 3...

TP's strength is speed, penetration and finishing. When he has a favorable matchup (ie: no shot blocker in the paint), that's a great asset, and the Spurs should pursue it. But him taking Js and trying to play 1-2 with Tim should be at the very bottom of the barrel as far as offensive options go, especially with LMA and Kawhi on the floor. All that takes is recognition of where your bread is buttered now. Sometimes I cringe when he starts a 1-2 play with Tim (which these days seem to end up with a turnover). It's like watching Kobe post up Kawhi in a corner, about to embarrass himself.

[dabom]

It's a matter of strengths, mid... I rather West take jumpshots than Tony. I rather have Manu moving the ball side to side looking for an opening, than dribble, dribble, dribble. Even at 38%, I rather Green take a 3 than TP... Bobo in the post (I think he's bored ATM, tbh) and Tim at the elbow looking for LMA are better options than a Manu stepback 3...

TP's strength is speed, penetration and finishing. When he has a favorable matchup (ie: no shot blocker in the paint), that's a great asset, and the Spurs should pursue it. But him taking Js and trying to play 1-2 with Tim should be at the very bottom of the barrel as far as offensive options go, especially with LMA and Kawhi on the floor. All that takes is recognition of where your bread is buttered now. Sometimes I cringe when he starts a 1-2 play with Tim (which these days seem to end up with a turnover). It's like watching Kobe post up Kawhi in a corner, about to embarrass himself.

always leads to a fastbreak because of our positioning.

[Pauleta14]

It's a matter of strengths, mid... I rather West take jumpshots than Tony. I rather have Manu moving the ball side to side looking for an opening, than dribble, dribble, dribble. Even at 38%, I rather Green take a 3 than TP... Bobo in the post (I think he's bored ATM, tbh) and Tim at the elbow looking for LMA are better options than a Manu stepback 3...

TP's strength is speed, penetration and finishing. When he has a favorable matchup (ie: no shot blocker in the paint), that's a great asset, and the Spurs should pursue it. But him taking Js and trying to play 1-2 with Tim should be at the very bottom of the barrel as far as offensive options go, especially with LMA and Kawhi on the floor. All that takes is recognition of where your bread is buttered now. Sometimes I cringe when he starts a 1-2 play with Tim (which these days seem to end up with a turnover). It's like watching Kobe post up Kawhi in a corner, about to embarrass himself.

When he wants it Parker can be a great passer. Even if he isn't a "natural" one and will never be he can be very effective when he puts his mind to it like against the Bulls.

The same way Kawhi despite not being a natural shooter has become one the best.

[ElNono]

When he wants it Parker can be a great passer. Even if he isn't a "natural" one and will never be he can be very effective when he puts his mind to it like against the Bulls.

The same way Kawhi despite not being a natural shooter has become one the best.

While I disagree with your comparison I do think he can be a good floor general, especially when he recognizes it isn't about him.

The reason I disagree with the comparison is that you can work on your shot with a good shooting coach, improve your mechanics, release, etc. Actual playmaking is much more of an innate talent. You can execute very well, but that's not the same as reading and reacting, seeing the floor, etc. TP can execute very well whenever he recognizes what the team's strengths are now. He's done it sporadically this season, and it needs to be more consistent. It means he won't be the first and sometimes not even the second or third option, and it's difficult, but sometimes it's what's best for the team.

[100%duncan]

I don't know. The past games before this TP was looking like he needed to retire. It's easy to cite a game, but his health is always questionable. Hope dude remains injury-free tbh.

[Ditty]

If Aldridge, Kawhi and Parker average an efficient 20+ points each in the playoffs we probably win the le. Think Aldridge will have a game or two that he may struggle, the same with Tony in the playoffs but hopefully Green, Manu, Tim, Mills and West have some efficient nights also. Of course Pop notices the guys that are on also.

[ElNono]

^ It's rare your 1st and/or 2nd option doesn't get shutdown eventually in the playoffs, tbh... happened to Klay Thompson and largely Curry too last year, that's why you need other guys to come to the rescue (Iggy in the Dubs case, or Tim/Manu back in 2014)... that's why how sharp are Manu/Danny/Patty/Bobo and potentially West/KMart will matter, but above all, how strong is our defense to potentially grind out games will basically be the barometer.

[Kawhitstorm]

If Aldridge, Kawhi and Parker average an efficient 20+ points each in the playoffs we probably win the le. Think Aldridge will have a game or two that he may struggle, the same with Tony in the playoffs but hopefully Green, Manu, Tim, Mills and West have some efficient nights also. Of course Pop notices the guys that are on also.

Expecting Porker to average an "efficient" 20 in 2016.

[Kawhitstorm]

^ It's rare your 1st and/or 2nd option doesn't get shutdown eventually in the playoffs, tbh... happened to Klay Thompson and largely Curry too last year, that's why you need other guys to come to the rescue (Iggy in the Dubs case, or Tim/Manu back in 2014)... that's why how sharp are Manu/Danny/Patty/Bobo and potentially West/KMart will matter, but above all, how strong is our defense to potentially grind out games will basically be the barometer.

West WILL SHOW-UP & Patty has shown up in the postseason the past 2 season. Bobo is done, Manu is old & Danny's shot is out of service. K-Mart is basically the wild-card like Marco.

Big Game West:

[DenialTwist]

I don't know. The past games before this TP was looking like he needed to retire. It's easy to cite a game, but his health is always questionable. Hope dude remains injury-free tbh.

Exactly. He has played well against mediocre teams but the teams that matter are OKC and the Warriors. If he can be a good facilitator for LMA-Kawhi they can win but they also need Green to perform well offensively as well. Green should be the 3rd scorer but you never know when he is going to be M.I.A from beyond the arc.

[Pauleta14]

While I disagree with your comparison I do think he can be a good floor general, especially when he recognizes it isn't about him.

The reason I disagree with the comparison is that you can work on your shot with a good shooting coach, improve your mechanics, release, etc. Actual playmaking is much more of an innate talent. You can execute very well, but that's not the same as reading and reacting, seeing the floor, etc. TP can execute very well whenever he recognizes what the team's strengths are now. He's done it sporadically this season, and it needs to be more consistent. It means he won't be the first and sometimes not even the second or third option, and it's difficult, but sometimes it's what's best for the team.

I agree, the main reason imo is that Tony doesn't think pass first naturally, so he misses all the firsts "openings"...

My point was he is/can be a very good passer TECHNICALY, which is a real strength when you need to execute a (drawn) play, he even occasionally does amazing passes, the problem remain that it's never his first option, he always seem to look naturally for an opening for himself.
When he is asked to, like the game against the Bulls, he can be aggressive in setting up his teammates, it's not the 1rst time he has shown he can do it, the mystery is why he doesn't do it or is asked to do it more often.
I hate when I see him bring the ball half court, get rid of if to a teammate and stay passively in the corner! Is he asked to do it??

Regarding my comparison with Kawhi, it's not only the jump shot, it's the overall game, if you remember his ball handling his first year...

[EVAY]

^ It's rare your 1st and/or 2nd option doesn't get shutdown eventually in the playoffs, tbh... happened to Klay Thompson and largely Curry too last year, that's why you need other guys to come to the rescue (Iggy in the Dubs case, or Tim/Manu back in 2014)... that's why how sharp are Manu/Danny/Patty/Bobo and potentially West/KMart will matter, but above all, how strong is our defense to potentially grind out games will basically be the barometer.

And yet it is so difficult for folks to remember that TP was either the first or second option in all the playoffs between 2007 and 2013, and so in fact, just as you note, he became the focus of the defensive sets and schemes. He has in fact struggled and looked bad in those playoffs, but it is also true that, just like when Tim got the bulk of the defensive attention in 2007 and Tony was named MVP because he had less attention on him than on other Spurs, so too was Kawhi more able to get freer for great shots in 2014 when Tim and Tony were getting the bulk of the Miami defensive attention.

All of which suggests that Kawhi and LMA will get the bulk of the defensive action this year in the playoffs, so other team members will have to pick it up. Diaw and Green and, to a lesser extent, even Marco, did so in 2014 for us. So who do you think it will be this year? It might (or might not) be TP, it might be Green, it might be Diaw (if he hasn't completely and deservedly lost his job by then), or maybe Mills or Martin? We are gonna have to find some three point shooting from somewhere...in 2014 we had plenty.

All of is not to deny that defense is most critical, and on that basis I think that we are better than virtually everybody else, including GSW. But ref calls on fouls could kill us. Those are always so subjective.

[EVAY]

Regarding my comparison with Kawhi, it's not only the jump shot, it's the overall game, if you remember his ball handling his first year...

I remember cringing whenever Kawhi or Danny green would bring the ball up in transition.

Now I only cringe when Green does.

[ElNono]

I agree, the main reason imo is that Tony doesn't think pass first naturally, so he misses all the firsts "openings"...

My point was he is/can be a very good passer TECHNICALY, which is a real strength when you need to execute a (drawn) play, he even occasionally does amazing passes, the problem remain that it's never his first option, he always seem to look naturally for an opening for himself.
When he is asked to, like the game against the Bulls, he can be aggressive in setting up his teammates, it's not the 1rst time he has shown he can do it, the mystery is why he doesn't do it or is asked to do it more often.
I hate when I see him bring the ball half court, get rid of if to a teammate and stay passively in the corner! Is he asked to do it??

Regarding my comparison with Kawhi, it's not only the jump shot, it's the overall game, if you remember his ball handling his first year...

I've never said the transition from being the go-to guy to sitting back and basically be a floor general is an easy transition, tbh... it takes time, even Manu wrote extensively how it's difficult, and sometimes you take that extra shot you should not.

Tony can be on 'eat first' mode for a game, but he can't do what he did last series against the Clips, where it was more than a game. Not this season. He's got Kawhi being really dominant now and LMA too. He doesn't need to be, he can pick his spots, but knowing full well where his bread is buttered. We all know it's going to take time, and he has to transition from that first offense, to being part of the committee that's gonna be the third wheel. I though generally Tim and Manu have done that well, but, they're older, they started that transition earlier.

[ElNono]

And yet it is so difficult for folks to remember that TP was either the first or second option in all the playoffs between 2007 and 2013, and so in fact, just as you note, he became the focus of the defensive sets and schemes. He has in fact struggled and looked bad in those playoffs, but it is also true that, just like when Tim got the bulk of the defensive attention in 2007 and Tony was named MVP because he had less attention on him than on other Spurs, so too was Kawhi more able to get freer for great shots in 2014 when Tim and Tony were getting the bulk of the Miami defensive attention.

All of which suggests that Kawhi and LMA will get the bulk of the defensive action this year in the playoffs, so other team members will have to pick it up. Diaw and Green and, to a lesser extent, even Marco, did so in 2014 for us. So who do you think it will be this year? It might (or might not) be TP, it might be Green, it might be Diaw (if he hasn't completely and deservedly lost his job by then), or maybe Mills or Martin? We are gonna have to find some three point shooting from somewhere...in 2014 we had plenty.

All of is not to deny that defense is most critical, and on that basis I think that we are better than virtually everybody else, including GSW. But ref calls on fouls could kill us. Those are always so subjective.

All of the big 3 were targeted over their careers. People are crazy if they don't think Manu wasn't targeted even in 2013/14 against Miami. When you're running the best bench in the entire league, that kind of stuff is laser focused. Thing is, right now, Tim, Tony and Manu can't be saviours, not more than a game or two. Kawhi and LMA need to be the guys that raise over the scheming, and everybody else needs to help.

[Pauleta14]

I've never said the transition from being the go-to guy to sitting back and basically be a floor general is an easy transition, tbh... it takes time, even Manu wrote extensively how it's difficult, and sometimes you take that extra shot you should not.

Tony can be on 'eat first' mode for a game, but he can't do what he did last series against the Clips, where it was more than a game. Not this season. He's got Kawhi being really dominant now and LMA too. He doesn't need to be, he can pick his spots, but knowing full well where his bread is buttered. We all know it's going to take time, and he has to transition from that first offense, to being part of the committee that's gonna be the third wheel. I though generally Tim and Manu have done that well, but, they're older, they started that transition earlier.

I agree with you and your "frustrations" toward Tony, the thing is I don't have any hope in that regard, he won't change completely now, it's too late.

He will only be good at distributing the ball by sequences like he has always been. He can't start playing like a "normal" PG, he mainly creates from his penetrations and his aggressiveness.

What I still don't understand is performances like last PO against the Clips, we still don't have a sure explanation, tbh he can't be THAT bad suddenly, I'm sure he was way more handicapped than what was said at that time...

My point is he has to stay who he is, he needs to be at least mentally aggressive for him and the team to succeed.

[EVAY]

All of the big 3 were targeted over their careers. People are crazy if they don't think Manu wasn't targeted even in 2013/14 against Miami. When you're running the best bench in the entire league, that kind of stuff is laser focused. Thing is, right now, Tim, Tony and Manu can't be saviours, not more than a game or two. Kawhi and LMA need to be the guys that raise over the scheming, and everybody else needs to help.

[RD2191]

DAT 3RD SCORER WITH A SOLID 4 POINTS LAST NIGHT.

[midnightpulp]

DAT 3RD SCORER WITH A SOLID 0 POINTS IN THE 1ST HALF.

You forgot to mention him only taking 2 shots and deferring (4 dimes), which is what you re s want from him.

You also forgot to mention crew favorites Danny, Patty House, and Manure going a combined 0 for in' 11 for 0 points.

[RD2191]

DAT 3RD SCORER WITH A SOLID 0 POINTS IN THE 1ST HALF.

[Texas_Ranger]

he did allow around 15 on the other side tho. Good guy Tony.

[HI-FI]

I agree with you and your "frustrations" toward Tony, the thing is I don't have any hope in that regard, he won't change completely now, it's too late.

He will only be good at distributing the ball by sequences like he has always been. He can't start playing like a "normal" PG, he mainly creates from his penetrations and his aggressiveness.

What I still don't understand is performances like last PO against the Clips, we still don't have a sure explanation, tbh he can't be THAT bad suddenly, I'm sure he was way more handicapped than what was said at that time...

My point is he has to stay who he is, he needs to be at least mentally aggressive for him and the team to succeed.

what did Sean say on the broadcast the other night, "Only God can create point guards"? Seems true with Parker. He'll never be a natural floor general like even Manu. I'll give Enrique some credit, he's been less infuriating this year than I can recall but he still has those Kobe-esque lapses into selfishness, not seeing the court correctly etc...I'm just glad we got Patty and Andre Miller as insurance.