NBA: 1986 Celts vs 2014 Spurs

**Kawhitstorm** · 03-31-2016

Originally Posted by KL2

250-260 range is when he was old, fat and out of shape:

Wes Unseld weight like 290 lbs:

Hakeem: 255

Looks like Shaq next to Ewing (240):

Robert Horry: 240 (couldn't guard centers)

**KL2** · 03-31-2016

[QUOTE=Kawhitstorm;8505089]Wes Unseld weight like 290 lbs:

Wes Unseld was listed at 245lbs at his peak lol, and it's not like he was lean either, he was bulky and fat. Kawhi Leonard is practically the same weight as him except lean and agile. And before you say something like "Leonard isn't 240lbs" just use Stanley Johnson or Khris Middleton for reference, Johnson 245, Middleton 235.

Hakeem: 255

Looks like Shaq next to Ewing (240)

Robert Horry: 240 (couldn't guard centers)

I'm not sure what Olajuwon weighed at that time, same with Ewing, both guys bulked up late in their careers like everyone else. And be honest lol, Malone looks like , look at that gut. 240lbs isn't big anymore for true big men, Ibaka is around 245lbs (still listed at his old weight), even he has strength issues. And as far as Horry, he was around 220 with the Rockets, bulked up to 240 late in his career.

This is what Aldridge looked like at 240 (still listed at his rookie weight)

**Kawhitstorm** · 03-31-2016

Originally Posted by KL2

Wes Unseld was listed at 245lbs at his peak lol, and it's not like he was lean either, he was bulky and fat.

Unseld wasn't necessarily fat, he was built like Barkley w/ tree trunk legs. The picture I posed was during Wes Unseld's mid-career (late 70s) as that was when Moses moved to the NBA from the ABA.

Wes Unseld:
Height: 6-5.75
Playing Weight:
245 - rookie
265 - mid career
280 - late career

Kawhi Leonard is practically the same weight as him except lean and agile. And before you say something like "Leonard isn't 240lbs" just use Stanley Johnson or Khris Middleton for reference, Johnson 245, Middleton 235.

Kawhi is actually BIGGER than Faried & Joe Johnson is also just as big as Carmelo

I'm not sure what Olajuwon weighed at that time, same with Ewing, both guys bulked up late in their careers like everyone else. And be honest lol, Malone looks like , look at that gut. 240lbs isn't big anymore for true big men, Ibaka is around 245lbs (still listed at his old weight), even he has strength issues. And as far as Horry, he was around 220 with the Rockets, bulked up to 240 late in his career

**Kawhitstorm** · 03-31-2016

@KL2

Elvin Hayes (in front of Moses) was 240:

Hakeem in college looks like a a small-forward next to Moses.

**Kawhitstorm** · 03-31-2016

@KL2

Moses was bigger than Robert Parish

Parish vs. Rookie Shaq (Parish is listed as 230

)

Shaq getting cucked by 40 year old Parish:

**KL2** · 04-03-2016

Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

Unseld wasn't necessarily fat, he was built like Barkley w/ tree trunk legs. The picture I posed was during Wes Unseld's mid-career (late 70s) as that was when Moses moved to the NBA from the ABA.

Wes Unseld:
Height: 6-5.75
Playing Weight:
245 - rookie
265 - mid career
280 - late career

Kawhi is actually BIGGER than Faried & Joe Johnson is also just as big as Carmelo

Unseld carried quite a bit of fat, he was pretty slow just like most guys that were big in that era. If you were big, you were almost guaranteed to be slow, it's not like today's league at all:

He looks like an old man the way he moves, imagine him trying to guard Aldridge on the perimeter or chasing a guard like Curry around multiple screens.

But these weights pretty much prove my point, the preferred weights are generally around their primes, that's around the size of most rookies in today's league. Lots of these guys are also some of the all time greats in the game too, which usually means they have legit size over the rest of the league. People remember the peak players, but usually not the 2nd and 3rd stringers they also played against.

The entire league is full of these monsters, it's not just a select few, it's practically every roster from top to bottom.

From the SF position alone:
Lebron (prime)-260+
Leonard ) 240+
Melo-240
J. Johnson-240
S. Johnson-240
J. Butler-235
Durant-240
Parker-240
Gay-235? (He bulked up to like 250 with the Raps)
Hayward-230
etc. Lots of these guys like Leonard aren't even at their peak weights.

**KL2** · 04-03-2016

[QUOTE=Kawhitstorm;8505451]@KL2

Moses was bigger than Robert Parish

Parish vs. Rookie Shaq (Parish is listed as 230

)

Shaq getting cucked by 40 year old Parish:

Again, laaaate in Parish's career, early in Shaq's who was really inexperienced but was still giving guys like Olajuwon all they could handle. Shaq was >300lbs as a rookie, he bulked up to 330+ in the late 90's, then continued gaining until he was like 360+ by '04.

**Kawhitstorm** · 04-03-2016

Originally Posted by KL2

Again, laaaate in Parish's career, early in Shaq's who was really inexperienced but was still giving guys like Olajuwon all they could handle. Shaq was >300lbs as a rookie, he bulked up to 330+ in the late 90's, then continued gaining until he was like 360+ by '04.

Shaq was crushing cats as a rookie so 40 yr old Parish being able to handle was no small feat.

Moses was bigger/stronger than Parish & was a better defender so miss me w/ Shaq would have crushed him narrative.

Mourning didn't fear Shaq used to go toe-to-toe w/ him including '99-'00 when Shaq was at his PEAK. Mourning wasn't in the same class as Moses & used to get sonned by old ass Ewing.

(Zo was a great shot-blocker/quick leaper but an average post defender & okay rebounder b/c he didn't have strong hips)

**KL2** · 04-04-2016

Originally Posted by Kawhitstorm

Shaq was crushing cats as a rookie so 40 yr old Parish being able to handle was no small feat.

Moses was bigger/stronger than Parish & was a better defender so miss me w/ Shaq would have crushed him narrative.

Mourning didn't fear Shaq used to go toe-to-toe w/ him including '99-'00 when Shaq was at his PEAK. Mourning wasn't in the same class as Moses & used to get sonned by old ass Ewing.

(Zo was a great shot-blocker/quick leaper but an average post defender & okay rebounder b/c he didn't have strong hips)

That doesn't change the fact that Shaq was a rookie, that's like me posting clips of Leonard getting owned by Gay or Durant years ago. But it's not like Parish stopped Shaq, Shaq still tore him up despite those few highlights. Ewing used to own Mourning when he was younger (Mourning was a rook in '92), sure, but as the years went on Mourning continuously outplayed him, he probably had a handful of good games against him.

The NBA is a cycle, Rooks take around 4 years to first reach their primes and fill out, another 3 to finally peak. Their primes eventually run out, but it's not like they stop progressing as a player, they pick up different skills and things they've learned from being 10+ years pro. They eventually become vets and pick on the younger players still developing as that's when they're most vulnerable.

It's like TD vs Griffin & Cousins years ago, or Gay & KD vs Leonard. TD owned them when they were young, but not anymore, same with Gay & KD owning a young Leonard.

**MultiTroll** · 04-04-2016

Pos.	Starter	Bench	Reserve
C	Robert Parish	Bill Walton	Greg Kite
PF	Kevin McHale
SF	Larry Bird		David Thirdkill
SG	Danny Ainge	Scott Wedman	Rick Carlisle
PG	Dennis Johnson	Jerry Sichting	Sam Vincent

**MultiTroll** · 04-04-2016

Breakdown
C Timmy Duncan vs Bob Parish
PF LMA vs McHale
SF Bird vs Kawhi
SG Ainge vs Danny Green
PG DJ vs Porker

**Kawhitstorm** · 04-04-2016

Originally Posted by KL2

That doesn't change the fact that Shaq was a rookie, that's like me posting clips of Leonard getting owned by Gay or Durant years ago.

LoL, Kawhi as a rookie wasn't on Shaq level (Shaq was the best rookie since Admiral who was a 24 year old rookie) & 40 year old Parish was no where near KD.

But it's not like Parish stopped Shaq, Shaq still tore him up despite those few highlights.

Shaq is going to get his but it's not like he was steam rolling AARP Parish.

Ewing used to own Mourning when he was younger (Mourning was a rook in '92), sure, but as the years went on Mourning continuously outplayed him, he probably had a handful of good games against him.

NOPE, Ewing used to own Mourning when Zo was an MVP candidate & Ewing was past his prime. We are talking about the same Ewing that was getting outplayed by Rik Smits: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...playoffs::none

1997 playoffs-http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1997-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-knicks-vs-heat.html

The NBA is a cycle, Rooks take around 4 years to first reach their primes and fill out, another 3 to finally peak. Their primes eventually run out, but it's not like they stop progressing as a player, they pick up different skills and things they've learned from being 10+ years pro. They eventually become vets and pick on the younger players still developing as that's when they're most vulnerable.

It's like TD vs Griffin & Cousins years ago, or Gay & KD vs Leonard. TD owned them when they were young, but not anymore, same with Gay & KD owning a young Leonard.

Again, Mourning held his own against MVP Shaq.

**ambchang** · 04-04-2016

Originally Posted by KL2

That doesn't change the fact that Shaq was a rookie, that's like me posting clips of Leonard getting owned by Gay or Durant years ago. But it's not like Parish stopped Shaq, Shaq still tore him up despite those few highlights. Ewing used to own Mourning when he was younger (Mourning was a rook in '92), sure, but as the years went on Mourning continuously outplayed him, he probably had a handful of good games against him.

The NBA is a cycle, Rooks take around 4 years to first reach their primes and fill out, another 3 to finally peak. Their primes eventually run out, but it's not like they stop progressing as a player, they pick up different skills and things they've learned from being 10+ years pro. They eventually become vets and pick on the younger players still developing as that's when they're most vulnerable.

It's like TD vs Griffin & Cousins years ago, or Gay & KD vs Leonard. TD owned them when they were young, but not anymore, same with Gay & KD owning a young Leonard.

So MVP candidates outplay rookies.

. Incredible insights right there. And when those MVPs get older, they no longer dominate but get to hold their own against those same rookies they dominated in the past.

Never thought that was true until you pointed it out.

**KL2** · 04-05-2016

LoL, Kawhi as a rookie wasn't on Shaq level (Shaq was the best rookie since Admiral who was a 24 year old rookie) & 40 year old Parish was no where near KD.

Against Parish Shaq was inexperienced and hadn't filled out all the way as you can see, not to mention his teams got significantly better throughout the years making him harder to guard. If 90's Shaq could get to the Finals with his young Magic team, imagine what he'd do with prime Kobe, Phil and LA. It's not like those early 00's Lakers squads would even ring in today's league either lol.

NOPE, Ewing used to own Mourning when Zo was an MVP candidate & Ewing was past his prime. We are talking about the same Ewing that was getting outplayed by Rik Smits: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...playoffs::none

1997 playoffs-http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1997-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-knicks-vs-heat.html

Ewing was still dropping 20ppg in a heavily reduced role that year, and was at one of the highest weights of his career, you're acting like he was done as an elite player, a younger smaller version would've been at a disadvantage. Younger Ewing was in the 240 range, towards the end of his career he got up to around 260.

Certain guys just have each others numbers, Pau Gasol has held TD to 42% in the playoffs before due to his length, that's probably what bothered Ewing vs Smits:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...vs-lakers.html

Again, Mourning held his own against MVP Shaq.

*Younger Shaq with a lesser LA squad and Mourning wasn't totally past his prime, he was more experienced/bigger than ever.

Shaq's offense was always great but his defense was , any modern big would expose his D and be dropping 30+ on him, especially if they're playing against his Magic/Laker teams. He wasn't totally unstoppable on offense either, if the old Spurs could use Rasho/Rose to slow Shaq down I'm sure the newer Spurs could with Aldridge-TD-West-Diaw and Green-Leonard as help defenders.