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Why wouldn't he? We obviously aren't thinking about the same Dale.
Did you miss the Guardian article I linked? It's a do ent ed fact that the UK built that factory. Thatcher even gave the firm who did a tax break
There's no record (that I know of) of the US selling Saddam chemical weapons. However, we did know about him using them and turned the other way since he was an "ally," But truth is Saddam was more France and the UK's buddy then he was ours.
Why wouldn't he? We obviously aren't thinking about the same Dale.
Like I said, he was an "ally" and we knew about the bull his was doing and chose to turn a blind eye. I'm just dispelling the clearly unfactual myth that the US "armed" Saddam.
When you want the truth, don't read biased history books, don't listen to your college professors, don't rely on personal experience, just simply follow the money.
France was a long-standing commercial partner of Iraq, having taken part in the Turkish Petroleum Company as early as 1924. In the 1970s, Iraq supplied 24 percent of France's oilFrance had sold arms to Iraq during the 1966 to 1968 regime of Abd ar Rahman Arif, but increased its sales between 1974 and 1980. Purchases were generally high technology, including aircraft and missiles.[4]"Between 1977 and 1987, Paris contracted to sell a total of 133 Mirage F-1 fighters to Iraq."http://www.nytimes.com/1990/09/21/wo...war-tools.htmlA number of French companies have exported machinery and raw material for the manufacture of chemical weapons to Iraq since 1986, a French magazine reported today.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/200...iraq.politics1The Falluja 2 chlorine plant, 50 miles outside Baghdad, near the Habbaniya airbase, has been pinpointed by the US as an example of a factory rebuilt by Saddam to regain his chemical warfare capability.
But Mr Channon, in line with Mrs Thatcher's policy of propping up the dictator, said: "A ban would do our other trade prospects in Iraq no good".
The British taxpayer was even forced to write a compensation cheque for £300,000 to the German-owned company after final checks on the plant, completed in May 1990, were interrupted by the outbreak of the Gulf war.
For more than a decade, yellowing paper files in a government store have hidden the story of the way £1bn of Whitehall money was thrown away in propping up Saddam Hussein's regime and doing favours for arms firms.
But ask any supposed "enlightened," "tolerant" and "educated" citizen of France or the UK why Iraq is Iraq, and they'll reflexively reply, "Murka."
Yeah, we were on board as well, but France and the UK were more deeply involved in that region.
I got photo ops, too, which are a decade older than the "smoking gun" Rumsfeld picture.
Saddam actually in France in meeting with Chirac.
Saddam in France during a 1972 visit:
Can't any more smoking gun than this. Here's Saddam and Chirac admiring a nuclear reactor facility together:
Murkadidit tho
"Iraq: incredible weapons – incredible weapons." "How do you know that?" "Uh, well … we looked at the receipts. But as soon as that check clears, we're goin' in. What time's the bank open? Eight? We're going in at nine. [[They always edit out this ing part]] We're going in for God and country and freedom and democracy and here's a fetus and he's a Hitler. Whatever you ing need, let's go. Get motivated behind this, LET'S GO!"
Yeah, Bill Hicks was indeed a respected historian and/or investigative journalist.
Your hero is dead wrong in this instance, because those receipts would clearly say, "Tendered by the Soviet Union, Tendered by France, etc, etc."
Andciting Bill Hacks (pun intentional).
Lol at thinking the US didnt have a signifcant say on UK and France selling weapons.
The US basically told france and the UK to start selling to iraq. A direct command. It ws important for them to do that because of their relationship with the Shah of Iran. So instead lf them doing it by themselves, they had france and uk do the dirty work.
The truth of the matter is that..UK,US, France etc are all one en iy in terms of foreing affair...the us dictates what they do.
Your idea of jokes and mine aren't the same. Not everyone thinks that is funny. You know that stuff is waaaaaaay over the line when you type it. Still you push post quick reply. Just because you think it's a "joke against a rival" doesn't make it okay to do. And I'm not telling you to stop doing it. What makes this site so great is stuff like that. All I'm saying is that I don't understand how some stuff you say is okay and a joke, and a way less serious comment by Thread is taboo.
And I've already told you I'm not with Bail. You can ask him yourself. 99% of the time I talk to Bail...I'm calling him a coward. But, his cowardice comes in the form of cowering to the reading room when the Lakers start out 1-8. Disappearing because a sports team isn't doing well and dodging the draft isn't really comparing apples to apples though IMO. Just because I think that Ali dodged the draft...and since Bail agrees with me....now I'm automatically a racist or I condone racism? In one of my first posts ITT I mentioned two white guys who did the same thing, and I think no better of them than Ali.
Dude, you're one or two posts away from calling me a racist just because I've finally found one thing I agree with Cub on.
[citation needed]
So the US, when they weren't a superpower, were telling France to trade with Iraq way back in the 20's? I suppose the US also told France to colonize Vietnam way back in the 1800s. Yeah, Iran. The US was telling the UK what to do there in the early 1900s (when the UK was basically the world superpower). The whole catalyst for the 1953 Coup De Etat was Mossadeigh choosing to nationalize their oil industry, removing it from British Petroleum's control. We indeed helped, but it was first and foremost a British operation.
And yeah, we told the USSR to arm Iraq, as well
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet...%80%93Iraq_warDuring the Iran–Iraq War from 1980 to 1988, the Soviet Union (USSR) sold or gave more military equipment and supplies to Iraq than did any other country,[1]
"Murkadidit."
Agree to disagree; you wear your uniform and I'll wear mine; to each his own; etc...meh.Yeah, Bill Hicks was indeed a respected historian and/or investigative journalist.
Your hero is dead wrong in this instance, because those receipts would clearly say, "Tendered by the Soviet Union, Tendered by France, etc, etc."
And
Regardless of it all, Muhammad Ali was the greatest boxer of all time and most importantly, a man of peace.
Real talk, I am not being "political" here and just taking the US side because I'm a citizen. It is a very well do ented fact that both the Soviet Union and France armed Iraq/Saddam more than any other country, and by a significant margin.
Sorry, Hicks was an moron here. Those "amazing weapons" he was talking about were SCUD missiles (a Soviet Weapon), MIGs, Mirages (a French fighter), Crotale SAMs (French). I can go on. So it aggravates me when Hicks (or anyone else) unequivocally says, "We armed Saddam."
Of course you can believe in some kind of conspiracy theory that we "told" France to arm him, but I can't buy that without evidence. It also doesn't make any sense, since US defense contractors would want a piece of that pie. French and Russian firms made millions off Saddam.
Not trying to be a , but there's no agree-to-disagree here. Hicks position is simply not supported by the facts.
The biggest thing during Sadam era was who was benefiting from a foreign policy standpoint. Its pretty well do ented that information realeased tl the public with regards to anything foreing related can be an absoutle lie or a misleading truth as evidenced with the snowden files.
There is no reason to use statsitic data used and employed by western agency and even their eastern counterpart.
France. Iraq supplied them with 24% of their oil during that period, so it was important for them to buff up his national defense and keep their gravy train safe with weapons that were much more advanced than the Soviet hand-me-downs he had at the time. They even wanted to build a nuclear facility in the country. This was during the early 70's, when the US was still ing around with Vietnam, so it's a big, big stretch to claim the US was pulling any kind of strings.
Furthermore, a lot this information was kept in relative secret at the time, and it would've taken a "whistleblower" to leak it. Only recently have we learned about what France and UK were doing in the region then, because now, no one really cares. Saddam is dead.
This article is from 2015, for instance:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/588...Saddam-HusseinBRITAIN backed away from a chemical weapons ban on Iraqi tyrant Saddam Hussein in the 1980s after discovering a UK firm supplied him with equipment.
That would've been a huge scandal if it broke in the 80's. But who's really going to care in 2016?
Holy you cant be that stupid... I know your old and you think you know everything, but even google knows that the US pumped him with cheddar and weapons technology.Did you miss the Guardian article I linked? It's a do ent ed fact that the UK built that factory. Thatcher even gave the firm who did a tax break
There's no record (that I know of) of the US selling Saddam chemical weapons. However, we did know about him using them and turned the other way since he was an "ally," But truth is Saddam was more France and the UK's buddy then he was ours.
This is very disappointing that you don't know this or idk, maybe your just brainwashed by Bill O'reilly and Sean Hannity, but wake the up man.
Iraq was using chemical weapons long before Rumsfeld's visit, though. Let's be fair about this.Holy you cant be that stupid... I know your old and you think you know everything, but even google knows that the US pumped him with cheddar and weapons technology.
This is very disappointing that you don't know this or idk, maybe your just brainwashed by Bill O'reilly and Sean Hannity, but wake the up man.
Where is the proof my dude? Show me something and enlighten me. That being said, the US was pumping up and arming him, making him stronger in the region because the US was scared of Iran.
Greatest Athlete of all time
Muhammad Ali was referred to as "the most famous man in the world". He was truly a global icon.
Man, those fights, though...Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Norton, etc...that was truly the golden age of boxing.
Plus, I'll never forget watching him light the flame in Atlanta in 1996. Epic stuff, that.
RIP, brother. You'll be missed.
I don't believe Dale is a poser.
It's in the article referenced by the highlighted link. RIF.
No, you're the one propagandized by clickbait headlines from the likes of the Daily in Mail. AndHoly you cant be that stupid... I know your old and you think you know everything, but even google knows that the US pumped him with cheddar and weapons technology.
This is very disappointing that you don't know this or idk, maybe your just brainwashed by Bill O'reilly and Sean Hannity, but wake the up man.."
I already admitted we knew about Saddam's chemical weapon's program and basically looked the other way. If you want to cite moral fault on our part for that, fair enough. But your claim is that WE SOLD HIM AND ARMED WITH CHEMICAL WEAPONS (I'm not yelling, caps are for emphasis). There is no smoking gun record of that, like the German, UK and France examples I cited (from legit sources).
I want actual receipts and paper trails of the US government selling and signing off on sales.
For instance, Project 922 was the primary Iraqi chemical weapons program and it was almost entirely built by the Germans.
As TampaDude said, he was already armed to teeth with a successful chemical weapons program that wasn't built by the United States.Foundation:
Iraqi chemical weapon program assisted by a wide variety of companies and governments .[2][3][4][5][6]
Muthana state establishment built early 1980s under the cover of Pesticide Production plant dubbed "The State Establishment for Pesticide Production"" SEPP", (its name changed later to be Muthanna State Establishment).
German companies helped Iraq to build Muthana facilities such as laboratories, an administrative building, bunkers early 1980s.
Other German companies provided Iraq with 1,027 tons of precursors of mus gas, sarin, tabun, and tear gasses in all. This work allowed Iraq to produce 150 tons of mus agent and 60 tons of Tabun in 1983 and 1984 respectively, continuing throughout the decade.
Between 1981 and 1991, Muthana establishment produced over 3,857 tons of chemical weapons agents part of them has been used against Iranian forces and civilian Kurdish.[7]
From the Frontline (a legit journalistic org.) article in your little screencap:
So we're not on record for selling him conventional weapons.Last winter, in Baghdad's annual Army Day parade, Hussein displayed some of Iraq's extraordinary arsenal, bought with billions of its oil revenues and with loans from its Arab neighbors. At least half of Iraq's conventional weapons were purchased from its ally, the Soviet Union, but France was also a major source, providing its sophisticated Mirage fighters and deadly Exocet missiles. And there were many others -- China, South Africa, Czechoslovakia, Egypt and Brazil. At one point, in the 1980s, Iraq was the biggest importer of arms in the world.
See, this where your "brainwashing" comes in. You see "but also in the United States," and quickly conclude "The United States did it all!!!!" The only US firm that sold Saddam agents was DOW, and it was pesticide (which Iraq probably refined for the purpose of weaponizing). But make no mistake, Saddam's conventional and chemical weapons programs were of "enlightened," "tolerant" and "peaceful" European origin.Officially, most Western nations participated in a total arms embargo against Iraq during the 1980s, but as we shall see in this broadcast, Western companies, primarily in Germany and Great Britain, but also in the United States, sold Iraq the key technology for its chemical, missile, and nuclear programs. As we shall also see, many Western governments seemed remarkably indifferent, if not enthusiastic, about those deals. And here in Washington, the government consistently followed a policy which allowed and perhaps encouraged the extraordinary growth of Saddam Hussein's arsenal and his power.
Iraq's chemical weapons have been developed with the help of German engineers at the Samarra plant. These satellite pictures of the heavily guarded secret plant north of Baghdad reveal some details of the sophisticated installation. Samarra is surrounded by anti-aircraft and anti-missile defenses, and some of its buildings are merely s s, dummies to help thwart any military attack.
I'll concede the point that we sold him a few more rounds of "ammunition," (so you got me there to a degree) but you spin it like Saddam was holding his until "ebil Murka" came in and showed him how to manufacture chemical weapons. I estimate that we were probably 1-5% of the equation in Saddam's chemical weapons program (if you want to state that is 1-5% too much, I agree. I only ask from you that you place the blame in this regard on who deserves blame the most, and it isn't the United States).
End of the day:
Further reading:All told, 52% of Iraq's international chemical weapon equipment was of German origin.
http://fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/cw/az120103.htmlFresh information on the Iraqi chemical program; Iraqi money and German brains cooperated in building chemical weapons
http://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/...2&context=bjilI apologize for the German participation in the Kurdish genocide. The
trade of German companies with Saddam’s regime was an illegal act.
They should not have done that. Germany has to tell the people of
Kurdistan that it was a mistake. Gassing Halabja took place with the help
of German companies.1
―Claudia Roth, co-Chair, German Green Party, July 4, 2012
But yeah, Murkadidit.
Last edited by midnightpulp; 06-06-2016 at 07:47 PM.
See my latest reply to you on the issue that clearly proves Saddam's most successful chemical weapons program was built by the Germans.
I hope you're "enlightened" now.
I will be responding to all of these as soon as i get home mid.No, you're the one propagandized by clickbait headlines from the likes of the Daily in Mail. And
I already admitted we knew about Saddam's chemical weapon's program and basically looked the other way. If you want to cite moral fault on our part for that, fair enough. But your claim is that WE SOLD HIM AND ARMED WITH CHEMICAL WEAPONS (I'm not yelling, caps are for emphasis). There is no smoking gun record of that, like the German, UK and France examples I cited (from legit sources).
I want actual receipts and paper trails of the US government selling and signing off on sales.
For instance, Project 922 was the primary Iraqi chemical weapons program and it was almost entirely built by the Germans.
As TampaDude said, he was already armed to teeth with a successful chemical weapons program that wasn't built by the United States.
From the Frontline (a legit journalistic org.) article in your little screencap:
So we're not on record for selling him conventional weapons.
See, this where your "brainwashing" comes in. You see "but also in the United States," and quickly conclude "The United States did it all!!!!" The only US firm that sold Saddam agents was DOW, and it was pesticide (which Iraq probably refined for the purpose of weaponizing). But make no mistake, Saddam's conventional and chemical weapons programs were of "enlightened," "tolerant" and "peaceful" European origin.
I'll concede the point that we sold him a few more rounds of "ammunition," (so you got me there to a degree) but you spin it like Saddam was holding his until "ebil Murka" came in and showed him how to manufacture chemical weapons. I estimate that we were probably 1-5% of the equation in Saddam's chemical weapons program (if you want to state that is 1-5% too much, I agree. I only ask from you that you place the blame in this regard on who deserves blame the most, and it isn't the United States).
End of the day:
Further reading:
http://fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/cw/az120103.html
http://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/...2&context=bjil
But yeah, Murkadidit.
You must not have that high opinion of black people.
I know about the Riegle report. I did understate how many US companies were involved, but like I said, we basically sold him a few more rounds of ammunition after the friendly and enlightened Germans built his plant.
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