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USA is 1-2 in Iraq wars lifetime...
USA wanted Iraq to win the war. It didnt happen. cause we staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacked USA and Israel fuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked
USA is 1-2 in Iraq wars lifetime
All the Western Powers did. , most of the World did. I don't think necessarily for any long term political reason, but because Saddam was a big arms buyer, so there was a lot of profit to be made.
I'm simply busting the re ed moonbat myth that WE alone armed him. Like I said, I would estimate 1-5%The know-how and material for developing chemical weapons were obtained by Saddam's regime from foreign sources.[23] Most precursors for chemical weapons production came from Singapore (4,515 tons), the Netherlands (4,261 tons), Egypt (2,400 tons), India (2,343 tons), and West Germany (1,027 tons). One Indian company, Exomet Plastics, sent 2,292 tons of precursor chemicals to Iraq. Singapore-based firm Kim Al-Khaleej, affiliated to the United Arab Emirates, supplied more than 4,500 tons of VX, sarin and mus gas precursors and production equipment to Iraq.[24] Dieter Backfisch, managing director of West German company Karl Kolb GmbH, was quoted by saying in 1989 that "for people in Germany poison gas is something quite terrible, but this does not worry customers abroad."[23]
And see bolded. I hope you decry your fellow Musilims here.
Yeah, what did it take, a couple of hours to oust Saddam and his regime in 2003? We occupied the country and installed a leader of our choosing. That means War=Won. The rest is just cleaning up insurgent roaches.USA is 1-2 in Iraq wars lifetime
Iraq 1 was also won basically overnight.
That said, I was against the Iraq War, but to say we lost it is complete bull .
Thing is we're just held to a much, much ridiculously higher moral standard than the rest of the world. We're like the Lebron James of geopolitics.
Take my "Arming Iraq" example.
In arming Saddam, we're a blip on the radar. As proven, a German company built his chemical weapons plant, and thereafter companies from Singapore, the Netherlands, Egypt, and West Germany were the primary suppliers of agents that were used to gas the Kurds, Bombs that were dropped by Russian and French planes.
But "Murka armed Saddam."
Or take the Snowden whisteblowing. He even stated that the British Intelligence agency GCHQ spies on its citizens far more comprehensively than the US does, but every headline after the leak read, "Snowden reveals spying on citizens by US!" No mention of the GCHQ or Canada or Australia or NZ, whose agencies were all implicated.
I know our hands are dirty, I just rally against the rest of the world finger pointing when their own hands are covered in in' mud.
Thats delusional.
The US isnt held ina higher moral standard. They dont have one. Thats the benefit of being the powerhouse and a PR powerhouse.
How many people have the US killed in the name of collateral damage? More than anyone in the world. More than any terrorist group that is starioned in their country fighting against the US, more than russia, more than china, more than iran, more than israel, more than North Korea.
More innocent have died with American BS wars than all of those mentioned combined.
The US have basically been on murder spree after WW2.
more than china?
You're the one who is in' delusional.
North Korea starves, kills, and enslaves its own people, to the count of untold millions while the Kim family lives in in' luxury.
Yeah, defending OUR ALLY the South Koreans against their war of aggression was a "BS War." I guess South Koreans and the collateral damage they suffered don't count because "ebil Murka" was on their side.
Vietnam? Yeah, Ho Chi Minh was leading such a peaceful socialist society in the North that over 800K citizens fled into the South after he immediately took power, with another 2 total million fleeing to the US and Europe. And it was the NVA who invaded, wanting to turn the entire country Communist. Yeah, defending the South Vietnamese was a BS war. South Vietnamese people don't count, I suppose.
Iraq 1? Saddam invaded Kuwait, using weapons (as proven) supplied by your tolerant and friendly Europeans. So the Kuwaitis don't count?
Iraq 2? Indeed started on false pretenses, but is anyone mourning the loss of Saddam?
Again, "follow the money."
Yeah, Iraq was just flourishing under the European armed Saddam Hussein.
I also guess we should've stayed out of Bosnia and let Milosevic complete his genocidal goals. Yeah, that conflict was also "BS."
You're also welcome for the US liberating the Philippines from the Japanese. Yeah, the Japanese treated your people exceptionally, so I guess defeating them there was also "BS."
"But you dropped bombs on them"
I can't argue with the results.
Japan before the bomb:
Japan after:
Now, I'm not claiming we don't have blood on our hands, but we've protected our interests and allies with no worse violence than other historic superpowers, and since the US's hegemony, it is statistically the most peaceful time in human history.
Last edited by midnightpulp; 06-07-2016 at 10:11 PM.
Apa is brainwashed. He takes the "millions of civilian casualties" statistic cited by non-reliable sources with no grains of salt.more than china?
The death toll from the Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and Kim regimes checks in about 150 million. But yeah, it's the United States who is on the killing spree
You're welcome, Apa.The combined death toll of civilians for the battle of Manila was approximately 100,000 to 500,000, most of which was attributed to massacres by Japanese forces. Some historians, citing a higher civilian casualty rate for the entire battle, suggest that 100,000 to 500,000 died as a result of the Manila massacre on its own, exclusive of other causes
You're the one who is in' delusional.
North Korea starves, kills, and enslaves its own people, to the count of untold millions while the Kim family lives in in' luxury.
Yeah, defending OUR ALLY the South Koreans against their war of aggression was a "BS War." I guess South Koreans and the collateral damage they suffered don't count because "ebil Murka" was on their side.
Vietnam? Yeah, Ho Chi Minh was leading such a peaceful socialist society in the North that over 800K citizens fled into the South after he immediately took power, with another 2 total million fleeing to the US and Europe. And it was the NVA who invaded, wanting to turn the entire country Communist. Yeah, defending the South Vietnamese was a BS war. South Vietnamese people don't count, I suppose.
Iraq 1? Saddam invaded Kuwait, using weapons (as proven) supplied by your tolerant and friendly Europeans. So the Kuwaitis don't count?
Iraq 2? Indeed started on false pretenses, but is anyone mourning the loss of Saddam?
Again, "follow the money."
Yeah, Iraq was just flourishing under the European armed Saddam Hussein.
I also guess we should've stayed out of Bosnia and let Milosevic complete his genocidal goals. Yeah, that conflict was also "BS."
You're also welcome for the US liberating the Philippines from the Japanese. Yeah, the Japanese treated your people exceptionally, so I guess defeating them there was also "BS."
"But you dropped bombs on them
I can't argue with the results.
Japan before the bomb:
Japan after:
Now, I'm not claiming we don't have blood on our hands, but we've protected our interests and allies with no worse violence than other historic superpowers, and since the US's hegemony, it is statistically the most peaceful time in human history.
Typical american narrative...we had to go to war and save the people( that didnt want to be saved our be put in war)
Vietnam was in a worse situation after the war and so is Iraq.
Fact of the matter is that these puppet governments havent done any good to its people. If you're going murder civilians in the name of saving them, you better ing come up with to help it.
Posting a japanese beahing to prove a point
I'm also clearly talking about post 50's when the US started to become the clear international powerhouse...Russian had nothing since they actuallynhad millions die in ww2.
Every BS fake lie war that resulted in millions dying and displaced by the US was never to protect the civilians but rather is its interest. The turn a blind eye on killers if it serves them. Dont be delusional
Nice citation of sources.
Typical american narrative...we had to go to war and save the people( that didnt want to be saved our be put in war)
Vietnam was in a worse situation after the war and so is Iraq.
Fact of the matter is that these puppet governments havent done any good to its people. If you're going murder civilians in the name of saving them, you better ing come up with to help it.
Posting a japanese beahing to prove a point
I'm also clearly talking about post 50's when the US started to become the clear international powerhouse...Russian had nothing since they actuallynhad millions die in ww2.
Every BS fake lie war that resulted in millions dying and displaced by the US was never to protect the civilians but rather is its interest. The turn a blind eye on killers if it serves them. Dont be delusional
"W-We really didn't want to be saved from the Japanese who were slaughtering us by the hundreds of thousands. I swear!"
Yeah, um, Vietnam obviously was in worse shape after the war, since Ho Chi Minh was able to fully seize power across the country. If those "people didn't need saving," then why did millions flee instead of live in his regime?
Oh, so the people who Milosevic was massacring didn't need saving, either?
Again, you're welcome.
No thank you at all. Iraq and Vietnam is in a worse situation. Run by US puppets.
The Serbs Murederd and attempted Bosnian genocide. They were muzzies so its ok to kill them and the croats were nothing...if the US really wanted to serve other peoples interest they would have had a more aggressive approach against the Genocidal serbs..instead thousands possibly Millions of Boniaks and Croats died...and your average american doesnt even know about these kind of .
That was a real massacre post 60s that the us didnt give a about. It was the world that had millseviv on the ropes...but the deed has been done ( allowed to be done) instead...the war the us chooses to go are fake wars with fake nuclear warheads and Bs propaganda.
Uh, you're acting like we killed the prophets ninth successor or something and caused the Sunni Shiite split. Iraq sucks because we're fighting regional powerhouse Iran. Libya sucks because al aqueda.
You know how the spurs have had random scrubs try to pride themselves against us? That's every war we fight, people come to smash us.
Yes, the us did tons of ty things. But it's not like it wasn't business as usual.
Who the cares about Serbs? We show up late to lots of wars where there's nothing to fight for. Syria isn't our client state. Sudan isn't. Libya isn't. Iraq is. But Iraq was about one man ing up. George gave Iraq to Iran. Epic self own by America.
Also? Who is the puppet in Iraq? It's been Iran all the way
Same with Afghanistan, that's the ISI. These strongmen you cite is out of fashion in America. We do other things now like corporate pressure, sanctions, etc. They kicked out Bush's Georgian lackey pretty quickly. I can't think of another obvious modern U.S. shill in power anywhere
The Serbs Murederd and attempted Bosnian genocide. They were muzzies so its ok to kill them and the croats were nothing...if the US really wanted to serve other peoples interest they would have had a more aggressive approach against the Genocidal serbs..instead thousands possibly Millions of Boniaks and Croats died...and your average american doesnt even know about these kind of .
Lmao and in 2016 we won't even bomb Assad. Even before Russian jets came. Apo is just silly sometimes. The U.S. Has obviously not been perfect, but it's not the cause of every problem in the world (we are the leading historical carbon producer though
How the was Ho Chi Minh a US "puppet?"
I like to hear a reasonable argument that the US were on the wrong moral side during the Vietnam War.
Timeline of events:
- Ho Chi Minh's communist forces drive out the French in the North. During this conflict, the Viet Minh killed assassinated 100,000 civilians. This wasn't "collateral damage," but straight murder.
- Ho Chi Minh confiscates land and wantonly carries out assassinations:
- There's a mass exodus from the North and the subsequent communist controlled Vietnam. An exodus that continued for 45 years (1950-1995).More than 172,000 people died during the North Vietnam campaign after being classified as landowners and wealthy farmers, official records of the time show.
The number of boat people leaving Vietnam and arriving safely in another country totaled almost 800,000 between 1975 and 1995.- US doesn't like commies, domino theory, Tonkin, etc, so we fly in and assist the South (who were being PERSECUTED).The boat people comprised only part of the Vietnamese resettled abroad from 1975 until the end of the twentieth century. A total of more than 1.6 million Vietnamese were resettled between 1975 and 1997.
Tell me with a straight face we were the "bad guy" in this instance?
And if you think we were the bad guy in the Korean War, then it's obvious you're simply an irrational anti-American. I know it's cool and hip to be one, though.
If Iraq is in a worse situation, how come the numbers don't show it?
http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns...hen-1250653765
Even with the ISIS situation affecting the economy there, Iraq is still projected to economically grow over the next few years.
But yeah, they were better off under Saddam concentrating the wealth in his family's hands
So we hate Saddam when he's an ally of the US, but justify his existence when he's an enemy?
Yeah, you're simply anti-American no matter what.
Also, I'm not taking credit for Serbia. It was a full NATO operation. I just provided it as an example of a "non-BS war."
Last edited by midnightpulp; 06-07-2016 at 11:30 PM.
It's cause we're on the top. The Lakers of the modern era, so the rest of the world hates us for irrational reasons and places moral fault on us for everything that goes wrong in the world in the hopes of knocking us down a peg.Lmao and in 2016 we won't even bomb Assad. Even before Russian jets came. Apo is just silly sometimes. The U.S. Has obviously not been perfect, but it's not the cause of every problem in the world (we are the leading historical carbon producer though
I mean, Apa is here calling the Korean War a "BS War."
Let's see:
- Soviet and Chinese backed North Korean military invades South Korea, decimating them to the point where the North nearly controls the entire country. See:
- The US joins, and helps the South drive the North back.
- Back and forth for a few years, until a stalemate is reached and the DMZ is drawn.
Apa: "Every country the US has defended in its BS wars is worse off."
Yeah, okay.
Last edited by midnightpulp; 06-07-2016 at 11:31 PM.
I am willing to concede based on your research (for now) that we did not exactly fully arm him and build him up. Although I do believe a government secret such as knowing about and possibly funding chemical weapons to a dictator is not exactly going to get leaked. Especially for how vocal we are against it, i.e. "Red Line" in Syria. As for your media claim, whether its CNN or FOXNews or BBC that you follow, they are all agenda driven, its all about ratings and points. Thus meaning small market media are usually the truthful ones. So attacking me by saying i read something else besides the mainstream is a bit immature and silly imho. My question to you is this, how can we know about and support something like this? Isn't knowing about it, and allowing it just as bad as paying for it?
The world hates the US because we since the modern military age, have started meaningless wars, constantly trying to overthrow governments for the sake of "democracy", lying and causing the world economic crisis. You really need to read more mid.It's cause we're on the top. The Lakers of the modern era, so the rest of the world hates us for irrational reasons and places moral fault on us for everything that goes wrong in the world in the hopes of knocking us down a peg.
I mean, Apa is here calling the Korean War a "BS War."
Let's see:
- Soviet and Chinese backed North Korean military invades South Korea, decimating them to the point where the North nearly controls the entire country. See:
- The US joins, and helps the South drive the North back.
- Back and forth for a few years, until a stalemate is reached and the DMZ is drawn.
Apa: "Every country the US has defended in its BS wars is worse off."
Yeah, okay.
Is knowing about a murder just as bad as murdering someone?
No.
But like I said, we're not morally "clean" in that regard, since American companies did sell Saddam agents, but it's a huge stretch to claim that we "armed" him, which suggests his military capability was non-existent until Uncle Sam helped out.
I've showed you photo ops dated from the early 70s of Chirac and Hussein hanging out, one even at a nuclear facility. It's a stone cold fact that, other than the USSR, France sold him most of his conventional weapons. Then in the late 70's, a German firm built his chemical weapons plant. And then the bank was open for defense contractors. Here's who sold Saddam the most:
So why do you place the primary moral blame on us?The know-how and material for developing chemical weapons were obtained by Saddam's regime from foreign sources.[23] Most precursors for chemical weapons production came from Singapore (4,515 tons), the Netherlands (4,261 tons), Egypt (2,400 tons), India (2,343 tons), and West Germany (1,027 tons). One Indian company, Exomet Plastics, sent 2,292 tons of precursor chemicals to Iraq. Singapore-based firm Kim Al-Khaleej, affiliated to the United Arab Emirates, supplied more than 4,500 tons of VX, sarin and mus gas precursors and production equipment to Iraq.[24] Dieter Backfisch, managing director of West German company Karl Kolb GmbH, was quoted by saying in 1989 that "for people in Germany poison gas is something quite terrible, but this does not worry customers abroad."
As for media bias, it's all agenda driven. I really hope you don't think supposed small market outlets like Russia Today are "truthful," when it's basically the media arm of the Kremlin. Or Rense or Alternet, which are run by far-far-left moonbats. Or Breitbert, which is the opposite of Rense and Alternet. That's why I try to follow the money in this regard.
I think you need to read more. You seem to only consider the superficial reality of these situations ("The US funded a coup against Allende in Chile, who the people wanted. The US is evil!") without digging deeper into the context.
Now, I'm not justifying everything the United States does (I was fervently against Iraq 2, and think Bush and all of his cronies should be in jail. And I'm against the War on Terror, since I think the end result of that will just create more terrorists. I think terror should be fought like the FBI fought the mafia. Clandestine, using intel, arrest/assassinate key figures and leaders, etc), but these situations aren't as black-and-white as you make them seem, and each side can mount a convincing argument for their position.
USA won the actual 2nd Gulf War in a matter of 3 weeks but the aftermath was a complete disaster, IMO... they underestimated the guerilla tactics of insurgents and the draining effect of occupying a country thousands of miles away... It was just poorly planned as far as the long term. to me, that is a lost war when the major objectives are not accomplished
I can only speak for Iran in that the beloved homeland is justified in hating Americas policies...1953, 25 years of a dictator, support for Saddam in Iraq war, sanctions and major media bias... a book of crimes by UsA against Iran
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