I use a term palatable to you - because you really don't want to hear that I believe in an Almighty Creator that put this world so perfectly together. You'd probably prefer to hear that there was a Big Bang and this planet just drifted together and randomly came to be - that these atoms came together by chance and apes (or whatever the theory is) evolved into a fantastic body like Lebron's. You are assuming that Christians and science are incompatible. To tell the truth, I didn't even teach my kids any science - just let them read a myriad of books. BTW, Let's Read and Find Out Science series is excellent (for those of you with young kids). They all started formal science at Physical Science, then Bio, Chem, Physics, AP sciences and they all did fine starting late (mostly because their foundation in math and reading is strong and I'm not a science - more of a history - person) and they haven't suffered for the late start. My oldest is very smart, my second is above average and my youngest is average and not one of them is going to one day get up and decide that the God that they believe made this world, who guides them each day and who they have a personal relationship with is fabrication - it's called faith.
Last edited by rmt; 07-01-2016 at 01:07 AM.
http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god/...-be-christians
Galileo - one of the most important and influential physicists, astronomers, inventors and scientists to ever live - under house arrest for his research
Francis Bacon - ironically the one who established The Scientific Method
Isaac Newton - He has been called "the greatest scientific genius the world has known." Yet he spent less time on science than on theology:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/his...ac-newton.html
What exactly is the problem?
For example, the Catholic Church accepts evolution and the Big Bang. There are many Christians who do. But these Christians know much less about God's ways than you appear to.
This is again the most basic misunderstanding of what science can and cannot do. Science CANNOT deal with the supernatural, spiritual, and the faith that drives these very human qualities. There is no good reason why you cannot accept this idea unless you choose to do so. There is really no reason you cannot have faith in a God and understand science and accept the differences unless you limit yourself. Any scientist who tells you human beings have got the world about us all figured out or will do so is a con artist IMO.
And yes there are scientist and others who are atheists because they have been trained to approach every question without using the supernatural or a God. Spirituality IMO is a whole different subject.
Too bad for you and your kids and the strict machine those that think human reason is flawless . But then again, too bad for anyone who thinks they got "it" ALL figured out. IMO, all schools should be required to teach what science can and cannot do.
Last edited by pgardn; 07-01-2016 at 09:26 AM.
Hinkley Point C critics try to derail it amid Brexit vote turmoil
Board of EDF, energy project’s key backer, is at risk of fracturing as ex-supporters worry about uncertainty of British government
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/01/hinkley-point-c-critics-try-to-derail-it-amid-brexit-vote-turmoil
Huh? Where did I say that human reason is flawless? Am I not arguing the opposite? You and RG are the ones asking me about AP Bio/Physics, evolution/creationism and I simply explained that my kids are taught from a young age at home and in church that God created the world - that is a major belief in Christianity and Judaism. They don't study the subject of evolution until high school and it's no big deal - they study, pass their test, and move on. You guys are the ones making a big deal out of this.
Actually you did not, I misstated this.
But you are the one who is sure that stated evolution and the Big Bang did not happen. And then imply as a Christian it just can't work. I am saying you are missing it and it is a big deal. So you are not simply stating that God created the world. You are also saying the Big Bang did not. You are stating evolution did not take place. This is at odds with many Christians and Jews.
So, and this is a big deal in a sense of how accepting you are of others faith, do you believe if a person believes in these scientific truths (as they now stand) they cannot be true Chrstians and Jews?
Last edited by pgardn; 07-01-2016 at 10:12 AM.
Good article.
Basically this is what I was trying to state to CC with a personal example. When funding for the future is in doubt, all kinds of economic activity tied to future projects affect the behavior of people NOW.
I think there is a compromise position where you can believe that a higher power created the evolutionary mechanism (DNA etc) It's a huge leap of faith to think humans ultimately evolved from a single cell amoeba.
10Ms of US Christian extremists, suckered by the Christ industry grifters in their $Ms tax-free "parsonnages" and deductible private jets, live multiple, HUGE "leaps of faith".
Scientists are observing evolution and even speciation in a single human lifetime. In 100Ms years, or Bs? Everything is imaginable.
Please re-read what I posted. Either I am not expressing myself well or you are not getting what I mean to convey.
Not all Christians and Jews believe/live their faith the same way. Orthodox Jews are much stricter than most American Jews. Catholics believe in a Virgin Mary, etc. This situation is precisely why I prefer to avoid all talk of religion on this board - we go from an innocent conversation on EU to this.
My belief its a huge leap of faith when you have your God figured out. Especially when you start applying what you know about your God to complex creative mechanisms, you take a leap. When you apply your God more towards morality it's not. Science does not do complex morality.
Last edited by pgardn; 07-01-2016 at 10:44 AM.
Yep.
This happens all the time on this board. I usually avoid stuff I have not thought about enough. You won't find me in the computer gaming section, the rap music discussions, and so many more. The political section is a tough place. I have to ask a lot of questions about guns. Cyber stuff, encryption... So much stuff I don't know.
So can you answer my question? It's about you, not some Chrstians. Do you believe that one cannot be a true Christian if one believes that the Big Bang and evolution have occurred? If you choose not to I'm good. It just interesting to me so when I deal with people I understand them better (not people on thi board necessarily either)
Where do I say that I have my God figured out? - it is quite the opposite. I am daily humbled and amazed by Him, and everything I have is what He provides. You are putting words in my mouth and making assumptions.
You are making a lot of assumptions - implying that the reason I don't want to talk religion (in regards to evolution) is because I haven't thought enough about it.
In answer to your question - no. A Christian is one who believes that Jesus is his Lord and Savior. You've heard of John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever BELIEVES in him shall not perish but have eternal life." All that is required is BELIEF (faith - not works) - meaning someone could be on his death bed and accept Jesus as his Lord and Savior right before he breathes his last breath - he's a Christian. Doesn't matter what one thinks about Big Bang or evolution. Once saved, always saved although the Bible does say there is one unforgivable sin.
Cool.
So one could believe in and accept Jesus as Lord and savior and AT THE SAME TIME believe that evolution and the big bang occurred and still be a Christian.
So now away from religion.
Why don't you personally believe that evolution and the Big Bang have occurred?
Then were did your lack of belief in evolution and the Big Bang arise?
Sorry I gotta get back to this post.
Reread this and then maybe think about what you have figured out about your God.
You are using reason to understand and describe his ways. Mainly by stating that you find personal aspects of what might be his ways impossible. You are further along in your understanding than I am.
Yes, accepting Christ as one's Savior is just the first step. Reading the bible is not a requirement (as in the dying man example) but a normal progression as a Christian seeks to follow God. Most Christians accept the bible as God's Word (in varying literal meaning). A lot of Catholics don't read the bible themselves - the priest acts as an intermediary - interpreting it for them in Mass. On the other more evangelical end, they take a very literal interpretation. So the Creation account at the beginning of the bible is believed by some as little more than a story all the way to exactly the way told in the bible. I'm am on the more literal interpretation end.
Don't see all this as that I'm knocking science - all my kids are heading into science. My husband and I are computer science (yeah, I know, not really related) majors. I'm just not particularly interested in it compared to the importance that God holds in my life. The Big Bang, in particular, just doesn't make sense to me - that's a whole lot of randomness and chance.
And for your other post, it's more a case of the more I think I know (about God), the more I realize I don't know but I trust that He has my best interests at heart and even when I've struggled - in the end, looking back, it made me stronger.
And I have absolutely no problem with the honesty above.
And back to Brexit.
Sorry for the lawyer like questions. It just interests me. It helps me have a better understanding for how people approach these subjects.
UK-related:
Go Sam Querry - win one for the US - stop that calendar Grand Slam.
That's what rational people think about your religion FYI.
Posters who mock or bait are precisely why I don't want to discuss religion on this board. Pgardn, otoh, seeks to understand other povs and has sincere questions. I am happy to answer anyone who is truly curious.
OBL didn't commit the unforgivable sin to my knowledge so what about that cartoon is "mocking"? I suppose to could say dogmatic truth is being mocked because it's asinine. If you think a 7 second cartoon that helps expose a huge problem with your religion is "baiting" then so be it. I'm not surprised coming from someone who didn't even bother to teach their children science.
Do you think OBL, a devout Muslim would be saying, much less truly believing that Jesus is his Lord and Savior? The unforgivable sin probably only applies in the context of people who are already saved (as in what could unsave them) - not to nonbelievers.
My children's science education is fine. One does not have to actively teach in order for children to learn. The library and internet are filled with science books and resources. And homeschooling affords a lot more time to try different, nontraditional things like coding a website (at 9 years old).
Last edited by rmt; 07-01-2016 at 10:34 PM.
The left has made a mockery of the humanities and social sciences for 30+ years. They have undermined the very fabric of our civilization by obliterating any notion of objective truth in society. "Everything is relative, man!"
Critical Race Theory, Boasian Anthropology, no more Western Civilization courses cuz "we wuz kingz" n .
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote