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  1. #2201
    Formerly Spurs21
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    In many cases, the other team.

    This whole bit about Murray and rebounding is one of the stupidest discussions that has ever occurred on this forum. And it’s a forum that’s seen a lot of stupid discussions.

    Guys, if a player has any chance for a rebound it is his JOB to grab the dam thing, if he can. Geez. Anybody who imagines otherwise is just a clueless dipstick who is not to be taken seriously.
    We’ve had our disagreements in the past but amen sir.

  2. #2202
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    We’ve had our disagreements in the past but amen sir.
    I too agree

  3. #2203
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    In many cases, the other team.

    This whole bit about Murray and rebounding is one of the stupidest discussions that has ever occurred on this forum. And itís a forum thatís seen a lot of stupid discussions.

    Guys, if a player has any chance for a rebound it is his JOB to grab the dam thing, if he can. Geez. Anybody who imagines otherwise is just a clueless dipstick who is not to be taken seriously.
    On top of that the dude is acting like we are playing in 2014 or some where we had size and length at every position except PG. We had Tiago, Duncan, Kawhi, and Green. If Murray was averaging 8 a game with those mfers playing then I could see his point to a degree. But we are undersized at so many positions that it's ridiculous. Murray NEEDS to be a rebounder bc nobody else on the team except Jak is one or has the capability to be one

  4. #2204
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    You shouldn't either, tbh. It really isn't a difference maker.

  5. #2205
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    In many cases, the other team.

    This whole bit about Murray and rebounding is one of the stupidest discussions that has ever occurred on this forum. And itís a forum thatís seen a lot of stupid discussions.

    Guys, if a player has any chance for a rebound it is his JOB to grab the dam thing, if he can. Geez. Anybody who imagines otherwise is just a clueless dipstick who is not to be taken seriously.
    That's not what the numbers suggest, tbh.

  6. #2206
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    I'm appalled by the lack of objectivity in this forum, tbh. If we were talking about Westbrook (or just guards in general), most folks (for not saying everybody) would be in the same page talking about how triple doubles are overrated and the relative importance of high volume rebounding guards. But since we are talking about a Spur player that everybody likes, you all jump like a bunch of pre schoolers blindly defending what you like.

    Bunch of babies, tbh.

  7. #2207
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Usually when you’re alone on an island with your opinion—you’re the dumbass, not everyone else.

  8. #2208
    Formerly Spurs21
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    Usually when you’re alone on an island with your opinion—you’re the dumbass, not everyone else.
    Mic drop

  9. #2209
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Usually when you’re alone on an island with your opinion—you’re the dumbass, not everyone else.
    This topic has been discussed before in this forum and everybody was on the same page. Now that a Spur is involved, everybody changed their tune.

  10. #2210
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    I'm appalled by the lack of objectivity in this forum, tbh. If we were talking about Westbrook (or just guards in general), most folks (for not saying everybody) would be in the same page talking about how triple doubles are overrated and the relative importance of high volume rebounding guards. But since we are talking about a Spur player that everybody likes, you all jump like a bunch of pre schoolers blindly defending what you like.

    Bunch of babies, tbh.
    Westbrook does things way differently regarding rebounds. Thats actually why I'm annoyed you're trying to compare the two. Are you not aware of the Westbrook pulled to get his numbers with OKC?

  11. #2211
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    To be clear, Westbrook got his teammates to actively give him rebounds so he could get triple doubles.

    https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/4/...e-okc-playoffs

    His rebounding rate also went up when he was close to double digits.

    https://harvardsportsanalysis.org/20...stat-stuffing/

    This list of goes on.


    This is what you're saying Murray is doing. Its not true, which is why you're alone dying on this weird ass hill.

  12. #2212
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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  13. #2213
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    For a stat padder it's weird that DjM did not chase for his 10th rebound.

  14. #2214
    Formerly Spurs21
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    For a stat padder it's weird that DjM did not chase for his 10th rebound.
    He obviously realized DAF86 was on to him and is trying to disprove his brilliant hypothesis.

  15. #2215
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    As I've mentioned in other contexts, rebounding on/offs are one of the better ways to examine how much a player affects his team's rebounding. If Murray were taking rebounds from his teammates, it's likely the team wouldn't rebound any worse with him off the court. If he were needed to get the rebounds, then the team would rebound way better with him on the court than off.

    https://www.basketball-reference.com...01/on-off/2022

    The numbers suggests there's a real difference with Murray on the court. The Spurs lose the rebound battle either way, but Murray replacing some bench PG makes them much closer to neutral. Likely without him, the Spurs would lose the rebound battle even more. As a side note, there are players who affect the team's rebounding more than Murray. That's not a knock on him, but I've read folks trying to on KBD and Johnson as folks who are bad rebounders. That's fundamentally untrue. They're both great rebounders, and together, they combine to give the Spurs a strong advantage over their opponents. Maybe those guys would get more boards without DeJounte there. Maybe they're excellent at boxing out their guys and doing their parts. But they aren't the ones people should look at.

    My eye-test read of Murray is that he just wants things more than most guys on the court. He isn't trying to call his own number all the time, but he's more willing to try to score rather than defer. He isn't stealing rebounds from his teammates, but he is moving more aggressively than they are. That might come as a detriment if he's not boxing out as part of that process. Some stats to suggests that his match-ups have good rebounding success when he's on the court. But overall, I don't think he's doing anything beyond trying to will his team to wins. Westbrook, for all the he gets, was basically trying to do that in his first season alone in OKC. Later, his triple-doubles lost worth, and he's had the same obvious holes in his game forever. I think DJM is a more effective player, but I don't think considering the similarities between them an insult.

    Overall, I do think it can be unhelpful to put too much emphasis on rebounding from the PG position. Just like assists from a center, it's a nice bonus that has to be underpinned by good play in the more important metrics. DeJounte's scoring inefficiency is a legit concern that isn't completely explained by his low FTAs. His EFG% (not TS%) is also bad, and that indicates he's not very efficient at the shots he does take. All of the Spurs' guards struggle in that regard, actually. It's probably the thing holding the team back the most right now. It seems a lot of his stat increase have come from him holding the ball even more, though him increasing his AST:TO shows he's also improved as a passer. I think DJM has objectively been a much improved player this year and should be one of the MIP front-runners. But I also think he's farther away from an All-Star bid than folks here and in Spurs media like to project.

  16. #2216
    The St. Croix Boy duncan2k5's Avatar
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    In this era where bigs are pulled out to the 3 point line, guard rebounding is necessary

  17. #2217
    Believe.
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    DJM's rebounding seems like a nice plus for the team, but not a giant difference-maker. I am not wasting too much time thinking about it.
    My eye-test doesn't indicate that he is sacrificing other things in the game for rebounds and is often helpful on contested rebounds.

    I'm thrilled with DJM's improvement as a passer and ball handler and that is where he is having the most impact.
    On a team with a true superstar scorer DJM would be a great supporting player and make that a dangerous team.

    I'm hoping that next season we see his scoring ability take a similar leap forward.
    He is not a go to guy yet despite being our leading scorer. We really don't have one at the moment.

  18. #2218
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    I'm appalled by the lack of objectivity in this forum, tbh. If we were talking about Westbrook (or just guards in general), most folks (for not saying everybody) would be in the same page talking about how triple doubles are overrated and the relative importance of high volume rebounding guards. But since we are talking about a Spur player that everybody likes, you all jump like a bunch of pre schoolers blindly defending what you like.

    Bunch of babies, tbh.
    Top 5 team in the west

  19. #2219
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    This topic has been discussed before in this forum and everybody was on the same page. Now that a Spur is involved, everybody changed their tune.
    Nobody really change their tune, personally I would still prefer for DjM to expand his energy on attacking and clutch time. Thus I have always stick to the idea of us requiring a proper PF. The issue of people here is that you brand DjM as a stat padder just becos he has triple doubles. If you look at the players he played with Poeltl, McD and Johnson are not getting lesser rebounds. If you look at Poeltl and McD history including those on other teams you will see that they are on their career average. For the starting team, as McD is a weak rebounder, someone has to step up to cover hm. It's either DjM or DW which both are guards.

  20. #2220
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    Top 5 team in the west
    I have a feeling they will be next season

  21. #2221
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
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    Usually when you’re alone on an island with your opinion—you’re the dumbass, not everyone else.

  22. #2222
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    I have a feeling they will be next season
    They have some nice pieces. I could see them flipping some of them for another star to go with Murray and becoming a top 5 team next year. Just not there now, not even close, imo.

  23. #2223
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    They have some nice pieces. I could see them flipping some of them for another star to go with Murray and becoming a top 5 team next year. Just not there now, not even close, imo.
    Like I said, next season. Spurs are only out of the playoffs for 3rd season after losing its Big 3 and niephew. Spurs have replaced every position with young athletic players, including budding star Murray. Devin and Primo could be very good pieces, likewise Collins if his legs hold up. A big cap and plenty of assets, the Spurs are primed to make a big swing for a tier 1 player come trade deadline or next Summer. Future is bright bruh

  24. #2224
    half man half amazing
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    Like I said, next season. Spurs are only out of the playoffs for 3rd season after losing its Big 3 and niephew. Spurs have replaced every position with young athletic players, including budding star Murray. Devin and Primo could be very good pieces, likewise Collins if his legs hold up. A big cap and plenty of assets, the Spurs are primed to make a big swing for a tier 1 player come trade deadline or next Summer. Future is bright bruh
    This might be the most delusional tale I’ve seen in quite some time.

  25. #2225
    Formerly Spurs21
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    Like I said, next season. Spurs are only out of the playoffs for 3rd season after losing its Big 3 and niephew. Spurs have replaced every position with young athletic players, including budding star Murray. Devin and Primo could be very good pieces, likewise Collins if his legs hold up. A big cap and plenty of assets, the Spurs are primed to make a big swing for a tier 1 player come trade deadline or next Summer. Future is bright bruh
    Keep dreaming sir. What tier 1 player are we getting at the deadline? Are you prepared to give up multiple firsts? White, Jak and Thad doesnít even get you in the building for Ben Simmons let alone a tier 1 player. There are absolutely no tier 1 players in free agency who will even entertain us.

    I respect your fandom man but your optimism is misplaced.
    Last edited by KingKev; 01-25-2022 at 03:00 PM.

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