Mountaintop Monastery of Dejounte Murray

[KingKev]

At a supposed Spurs fan saying this.

As an aside, the hypocrisy of the biased national media once again denigrating the latest superstar to throw a tantrum (Harden), while ostensibly absolving by ignoring the one who emboldened them by going about it in an unethical manner, in their retellings of the recent history with this.

Kawhi handled the situation terribly from my perspective. He did however bounce back in a way Harden has never been able to. Harden had little to hold his head high for to begin with. Kawhi gave the media reasons to give him the benefit of the doubt. Harden has never done that. Never played defense, continues to bail on his teammates, has never showed out when it mattered. Leonard has always played hard on both sides of the ball and is clearly a hard worker. His work ethic alone is admirable even for a .

[TD 21]

Kawhi handled the situation terribly from my perspective. He did however bounce back in a way Harden has never been able to. Harden had little to hold his head high for to begin with. Kawhi gave the media reasons to give him the benefit of the doubt. Harden has never done that. Never played defense, continues to bail on his teammates, has never showed out when it mattered. Leonard has always played hard on both sides of the ball and is clearly a hard worker. His work ethic alone is admirable even for a .

Only if exaggerating a chronic condition/resting 95 games over 2 seasons, successfully tanking his value to such an extent that the team he was eventually "traded" to was handed the league's most complete, having the overwhelming favorite decimated by injury and still barely eking out a tainted championship, is what you call "bounce back".

Harden at least showed up to work. He didn't hide across the country while his sleazebag uncle attempted to destroy the hard earned reputation of his current employer, nor withhold medical information from said employer paying him $18.6M or say he'd only re-sign in one city, leaving them only able to recoup pennies on the dollar.

[KingKev]

B

Only if exaggerating a chronic condition/resting 95 games over 2 seasons, successfully tanking his value to such an extent that the team he was eventually "traded" to was handed the league's most complete, having the overwhelming favorite decimated by injury and still barely eking out a tainted championship, is what you call "bounce back".

Harden at least showed up to work. He didn't hide across the country while his sleazebag uncle attempted to destroy the hard earned reputation of his current employer, nor withhold medical information from said employer paying him $18.6M or say he'd only re-sign in one city, leaving them only able to recoup pennies on the dollar.

I find it ironic you show some support for Rodman in one thread and so much disdain for Leonard in another.

I enjoy watching Leonard suffer, don’t get me wrong but I still see him as an incredible talent. Harden is less impressive as a basketball player in my eyes.

[TD 21]

B

I find it ironic you show some support for Rodman in one thread and so much disdain for Leonard in another.

I enjoy watching Leonard suffer, don’t get me wrong but I still see him as an incredible talent. Harden is less impressive as a basketball player in my eyes.

? I never commented on Rodman, but since you brought him up, I will now: he's overrated too.

He's not an incredible talent. He's an incredible worker who's leveraged his physical tools to carve out the (overrated) career he's had, but he's nowhere near as talented as someone like Harden.

For as much flak as the latter gets for his off court lifestyle/conditioning, you don't get to be that skilled without an immense work ethic. He's also had to carry far heavier a load in the past decade than the former's affluenza, pristine cir stances reliant ass ever has.

[KingKev]

? I never commented on Rodman, but since you brought him up, I will now: he's overrated too.

He's not an incredible talent. He's an incredible worker who's leveraged his physical tools to carve out the (overrated) career he's had, but he's nowhere near as talented as someone like Harden.

For as much flak as the latter gets for his off court lifestyle/conditioning, you don't get to be that skilled without an immense work ethic. He's also had to carry far heavier a load in the past decade than the former's affluenza, pristine cir stances reliant ass ever has.

Sht my bad I thought you were getting flamed for sticking up for Rodman in the AS thread.

[emanueldavidginobili]

[exstatic]

One of the things that disturbed me about Kawhi long before Uncle made the scene was that he didn’t know who David WAS.

[R. DeMurre]

For as much flak as the latter gets for his off court lifestyle/conditioning, you don't get to be that skilled without an immense work ethic. He's also had to carry far heavier a load in the past decade than the former's affluenza, pristine cir stances reliant ass ever has.

Do you think some of Harden's troubles are self inflicted? OKC offered him a hair below the max and he rejected it, preferring to be the main guy in Houston. There he had trouble time after time getting along with teammates... In retrospect, Harden probably would've made more money accepting OKC's 4 year contract over Houston's 5 year. The Houston contract only paid a few million more per season, while the OKC contract would've ended a year earlier and given him an extra year at a higher salary, which would've more than covered the small difference between the two offers... though admittedly, that would've been tough to predict at the time.

[TD 21]

Do you think some of Harden's troubles are self inflicted? OKC offered him a hair below the max and he rejected it, preferring to be the main guy in Houston. There he had trouble time after time getting along with teammates... In retrospect, Harden probably would've made more money accepting OKC's 4 year contract over Houston's 5 year. The Houston contract only paid a few million more per season, while the OKC contract would've ended a year earlier and given him an extra year at a higher salary, which would've more than covered the small difference between the two offers... though admittedly, that would've been tough to predict at the time.

Definitely and I'm not absolving him nor am I a fan. I'm just saying, the criticism is disproportionate (just like it was with Davis) in comparison to S bag, who did far worse than either or anyone else yet somehow mostly evaded criticism and is now endlessly praised. It's disgusting.

[emanueldavidginobili]

[exstatic]

Do you think some of Harden's troubles are self inflicted? OKC offered him a hair below the max and he rejected it, preferring to be the main guy in Houston. There he had trouble time after time getting along with teammates... In retrospect, Harden probably would've made more money accepting OKC's 4 year contract over Houston's 5 year. The Houston contract only paid a few million more per season, while the OKC contract would've ended a year earlier and given him an extra year at a higher salary, which would've more than covered the small difference between the two offers... though admittedly, that would've been tough to predict at the time.

When the Heatles were assembled in 2010. Mickey Arison asked each to take a haircut of like $1M to sign Mike Miller. They agreed. After their 3rd season together, and the 2013 Finals, Miller was stretched to avoid the tax. LeBron and the others were livid, and one year later, the Heatles were history. Harden was probably right to reject less, and his proof came from Miami.

[PhantomDashCam]

[R. DeMurre]

When the Heatles were assembled in 2010. Mickey Arison asked each to take a haircut of like $1M to sign Mike Miller. They agreed. After their 3rd season together, and the 2013 Finals, Miller was stretched to avoid the tax. LeBron and the others were livid, and one year later, the Heatles were history. Harden was probably right to reject less, and his proof came from Miami.

Maybe... but if Harden retires ringless, maybe not. They won two rings in Miami. I think in the long run, championships are more satisfying than, say, the difference between $195mil and $210mil. It'd be different if we were talking about the difference between 35k and 80k, but once modern day athletes are in the upper stratosphere of earnings, it becomes more ego driven than reason driven, especially if they keep repeating the mantra that championships are what matter. A perfect example is Tim Duncan. He gave the Spurs "discounts," and won a late career ring, and it's not like he has had to sacrifice anything at all in terms of luxury.

[JeffDuncan]

Do you think some of Harden's troubles are self inflicted? OKC offered him a hair below the max and he rejected it, preferring to be the main guy in Houston. …

Which was the right career decision for Harden. In OKC Harden played a total of 220 regular season games but only started seven. His first Houston season he started in all seventy eight r.s. games he played, and he got his first all-star nod. He’s been an all star every season since. Harden had to get away from Westbrook.

But this is a thread about DJM. There’s no player on the Spurs that DJ would take steps to get away from. It also seems unlikely the Spurs would bring in such a player. I sure hope they have enough sense not to do that.

[R. DeMurre]

Which was the right career decision for Harden. In OKC Harden played a total of 220 regular season games but only started seven. His first Houston season he started in all seventy eight r.s. games he played, and he got his first all-star nod. He’s been an all star every season since. Harden had to get away from Westbrook.

.

True, but Harden was only 22 in his last season at OKC, and on the precipice of winning an NBA championship with a supremely talented team. If he re-signs with them, there's a good chance he gets a ring, and still has a chance to do other things, like lead his own team, by age 26. He's 32 now, and seems to be in a state of decline. In another season or two, his dreams of winning a championship-- like Westbrook's-- might be gone for good.

[exstatic]

Maybe... but if Harden retires ringless, maybe not. They won two rings in Miami. I think in the long run, championships are more satisfying than, say, the difference between $195mil and $210mil. It'd be different if we were talking about the difference between 35k and 80k, but once modern day athletes are in the upper stratosphere of earnings, it becomes more ego driven than reason driven, especially if they keep repeating the mantra that championships are what matter. A perfect example is Tim Duncan. He gave the Spurs "discounts," and won a late career ring, and it's not like he has had to sacrifice anything at all in terms of luxury.

Tim didn’t give the Spurs a discount until 2009-2010. That’s with 4 rings and 13 seasons under his belt. That’s not even remotely the same as Hardens situation, a player who just finished his THIRD season, and was still on his rookie deal, seeking his extension. I’d have told OKC to pound sand,too. Every contract you sign is based on a set of raises at a certain percentage of what you were making, so that would have had a ripple effect for his whole career.

[R. DeMurre]

Tim didn’t give the Spurs a discount until 2009-2010. That’s with 4 rings and 13 seasons under his belt. That’s not even remotely the same as Hardens situation, a player who just finished his THIRD season, and was still on his rookie deal, seeking his extension. I’d have told OKC to pound sand,too. Every contract you sign is based on a set of raises at a certain percentage of what you were making, so that would have had a ripple effect for his whole career.

once modern day athletes are in the upper stratosphere of earnings, it becomes more ego driven than reason driven, especially if they keep repeating the mantra that championships are what matter.

I still think a 50 year old ringless retired Harden will look back with regrets... who knows, maybe not. I know I would. There are very few things you can do in this world with $300 million that you can't also do with $250 million.

[offset formation]

One of the things that disturbed me about Kawhi long before Uncle made the scene was that he didn’t know who David WAS.

Wait, wut?

[KobesAchilles]

OKC is a hole. I wouldn’t take a pay cut to live there either. Plus they still wanted him to come off the bench.

[JeffDuncan]

True, but Harden was only 22 in his last season at OKC, and on the precipice of winning an NBA championship with a supremely talented team. …

It was a team more talented on paper than in reality, tho. Westbrook and Harden are too much the same kind of player. Neither is a good defender. They are both high usage players who need a lot of time on the court. Looking at some stats for USG%:

Westbrook’s career high is in 2016-17, 34.6 min/gm, and a USG% of 41.7

Harden’s career high is in 2018-19, 36.8 min/gm, and a USG% of 40.5

And there’s only one basketball, and only 48 minutes in a game. You can’t make the best use of those two on the same team. Their abilities are not complementary, they’re in conflict.

I don’t think that OKC team was going to beat LeBron’s Heat. (It took the Spurs with a different kind of team to do that.) And I have to suspect it was driving Harden nuts to play second fiddle to Westbrook.

[Ice009]

Only if exaggerating a chronic condition/resting 95 games over 2 seasons, successfully tanking his value to such an extent that the team he was eventually "traded" to was handed the league's most complete, having the overwhelming favorite decimated by injury and still barely eking out a tainted championship, is what you call "bounce back".

Harden at least showed up to work. He didn't hide across the country while his sleazebag uncle attempted to destroy the hard earned reputation of his current employer, nor withhold medical information from said employer paying him $18.6M or say he'd only re-sign in one city, leaving them only able to recoup pennies on the dollar.

Wasn't that the season the Rockets choked a 3-2 series lead against the Warriors? If so, it's not Kawhi's fault that he won the ring that year. Rockets could have won it, but as usual, Harden disappeared when he needed to step up the most. Say what you want about Kawhi sitting out, but when he does play, Kawhi usually shows up in the biggest games.

One of the things that disturbed me about Kawhi long before Uncle made the scene was that he didn’t know who David WAS.

What do you mean he didn't know who David was? Do you mean he just didn't recognize him when he met him, or did he literally have no clue who he was?

[exstatic]

Wasn't that the season the Rockets choked a 3-2 series lead against the Warriors? If so, it's not Kawhi's fault that he won the ring that year. Rockets could have won it, but as usual, Harden disappeared when he needed to step up the most. Say what you want about Kawhi sitting out, but when he does play, Kawhi usually shows up in the biggest games.



What do you mean he didn't know who David was? Do you mean he just didn't recognize him when he met him, or did he literally have no clue who he was?

No clue. Seemed extremely odd at the time, not so much now. He’s just an extremely weird, inwardly focused individual. Even in the aftermath of all his , the other players, including the big three, said he really never talked to anyone.

[Trill Clinton]

But but he posts videos on Instagram

One of the WOAT takes in Spurstalk history tbh

[R. DeMurre]

No clue. Seemed extremely odd at the time, not so much now. He’s just an extremely weird, inwardly focused individual. Even in the aftermath of all his , the other players, including the big three, said he really never talked to anyone.

I've always assumed Kawhi was somewhere on the autism spectrum, with at least a touch of Asperger's Syndrome.

[R. DeMurre]

It was a team more talented on paper than in reality, tho. Westbrook and Harden are too much the same kind of player. Neither is a good defender. They are both high usage players who need a lot of time on the court. Looking at some stats for USG%:

Westbrook’s career high is in 2016-17, 34.6 min/gm, and a USG% of 41.7

Harden’s career high is in 2018-19, 36.8 min/gm, and a USG% of 40.5

And there’s only one basketball, and only 48 minutes in a game. You can’t make the best use of those two on the same team. Their abilities are not complementary, they’re in conflict.

I don’t think that OKC team was going to beat LeBron’s Heat. (It took the Spurs with a different kind of team to do that.) And I have to suspect it was driving Harden nuts to play second fiddle to Westbrook.

I agree completely, and I think people will look at Westbrook's style of play more & more as time passes and see that it caused a ton of problems everywhere he went. This is one of the reasons I never found fault with Durant leaving OKC. It was the right basketball move, and Durant saw it (or at least acted on it) before Presti did, but Presti still gets the props as the great evaluator of talent while KD is called a traitor.