Mountaintop Monastery of Dejounte Murray

[spurraider21]

I see a bigger and longer version of Tony Parker in him.

Erin Barry agrees

[Sugus]

id generally agree to sell high on him but with White out he is too valuable for a pg position for now. I see Lonnie having the ability to eventually play some pg but he too seems likely to have a yearly injury. Not sure if we can rely on Tre Jones yet. TBD.

I mean, he is really valuable for the PG position... But the Spurs shouldn't exactly be trying to stay afloat, especially if they're trading him. I'm actually a bit bittersweet about this recent success the Spurs have been achieving: on the one hand, it's great to see young players improve, establish themselves, and generally look like positives and maybe even future building blocks. But on the other, it gives a false hope of contention that might shift the FO away from better long-term strategies in search of short-term success.

At their core, I truly think the Spurs are a centerpiece away. Not a piece away, like a Collins or Allen or whichever big man - but a centerpiece, someone who can elevate the entire team, be the focus of an offense night-in, night-out, dictate the pace of the game, and close out games as the star of the team. White is that man some days, but he's both inconsistent and far too fragile to be considered a "centerpiece"; Keldon looks to be developing in that direction, but I still don't think he'll ever reach those heights, since he lacks court vision and distribution instincts that help other star wings (see: Tatum) be the centerpiece of their team's offense. At his absolute peak, I see Keldon as a star, a great two-way player that can score on demand whilst also defending the other team's best wing. But not a Doncic type of player.

So, from this perspective, losing DJ at the middle of the season (which would naturally push the Spurs towards the bottom of the ranks) would not be a bad thing at all. Moreso, his value is unlikely to be higher than it is right now - he's a year removed from injury, looking better than ever, and leading the team. Unless the Spurs FO really think they can develop him into something "else" than what he is right now, the right move would be selling high on him after having rehabbed his value.

...for the record, though, this is never going to happen. I acknowledge this. Doesn't mean I agree with it, but the Spurs are very clearly aiming for one last playoff push in this Pop era.

[Dejounte]

^Criticism of Tatum early in his career was lack of passing ability and court vision. Just sayin'...

[tim_duncan_fan]

I see a bigger and longer version of Tony Parker in him.

Not fast enough, but nearly identical games. Murray just isn't near as fast.

[Dejounte]

Player	Season	Age	Tm	Lg	Pos	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
Jayson Tatum	2018-19	20	BOS	NBA	SF	79	79	31.1	5.9	13.1	0.45	1.5	3.9	0.373	4.4	9.2	0.483	0.506	2.5	2.9	0.855	0.9	5.2	6	2.1	1.1	0.7	1.5	2.1	15.7
Keldon Johnson	2020-21	21	SAS	NBA	SF	8	8	29.9	5.1	11.5	0.446	1.4	3.3	0.423	3.8	8.3	0.455	0.505	2.3	2.6	0.857	1.6	5.6	7.3	2.5	1.3	0.6	2	2.5	13.9

Comparing Jayson's and Keldon's 2nd year in the league.

[SpursDynasty85]

I mean, he is really valuable for the PG position... But the Spurs shouldn't exactly be trying to stay afloat, especially if they're trading him. I'm actually a bit bittersweet about this recent success the Spurs have been achieving: on the one hand, it's great to see young players improve, establish themselves, and generally look like positives and maybe even future building blocks. But on the other, it gives a false hope of contention that might shift the FO away from better long-term strategies in search of short-term success.

At their core, I truly think the Spurs are a centerpiece away. Not a piece away, like a Collins or Allen or whichever big man - but a centerpiece, someone who can elevate the entire team, be the focus of an offense night-in, night-out, dictate the pace of the game, and close out games as the star of the team. White is that man some days, but he's both inconsistent and far too fragile to be considered a "centerpiece"; Keldon looks to be developing in that direction, but I still don't think he'll ever reach those heights, since he lacks court vision and distribution instincts that help other star wings (see: Tatum) be the centerpiece of their team's offense. At his absolute peak, I see Keldon as a star, a great two-way player that can score on demand whilst also defending the other team's best wing. But not a Doncic type of player.

So, from this perspective, losing DJ at the middle of the season (which would naturally push the Spurs towards the bottom of the ranks) would not be a bad thing at all. Moreso, his value is unlikely to be higher than it is right now - he's a year removed from injury, looking better than ever, and leading the team. Unless the Spurs FO really think they can develop him into something "else" than what he is right now, the right move would be selling high on him after having rehabbed his value.

...for the record, though, this is never going to happen. I acknowledge this. Doesn't mean I agree with it, but the Spurs are very clearly aiming for one last playoff push in this Pop era.

Totally get what you mean but in our scenario and roster that one piece is probably a C or PF. If we trade Murray and then White gets injured again next year, we will have our piece but Lonnie, Mills (whom I don’t want to resign) or Tre Jones would have to be our pg. Spurs I think put extra attention to this position so unless Tre Jones can be a viable starter incase of injury (maybe but time will tell) Murray is too valuable to our team over the next 3-4 years. Hate to say it but Lonnie plus a vet would probably have to be the trade to get us that piece.

[r0drig0lac]

I mean....

I understand the logic, but I don't see any of the youngers (KJ, DJ, DV, LW) or even White as a finished product, so I see a chance that any of these boys will become such a piece of construction (or none of them, or more than one , who knows?), nobody saw this coming up with Kawhi before it happened (and no, none of these guys are going to be as good as Kawhi), but if all these guys reach their expected potential or close to it, the team will be a good team and compe ive enough to receive your star like what happened with the Nets this season (for example)

[jehawk81]

the leader

The new HOTS?? 😮😮

[BackHome]

Not fast enough, but nearly identical games. Murray just isn't near as fast.

Umm yeah not even close to Parker two totally different players and skill sets

[exstatic]

Umm yeah not even close to Parker two totally different players and skill sets

He actually does a lot of things like Parker. Don’t sleep on the speed, either. He’s a lot longer and lankier, but he’s on wheels in the open court.

[Maddog]

leading up to the 2018 season there was a lot of Buzz about DJ. Some of it was seemingly coming from the Spurs staff (normally beyond tight lipped).
I was a bit skeptical*, and last year may have increased it-despite knowing it was a 2 year recovery. I'm starting to see some of the reasons the Spurs where excited.



* Like I'm an expert at talent evaluation....

[John B]

I don’t know how much more muscles he can add more, but he is getting stronger. He has Mamba mentality that he wants to be better than anybody in the court, and carry the team, and is working hard to do that. I doubted and frustrated that he should just shut up and put up. But DJ is shutting everybody up.

[rankingtear]

I mean, he is really valuable for the PG position... But the Spurs shouldn't exactly be trying to stay afloat, especially if they're trading him. I'm actually a bit bittersweet about this recent success the Spurs have been achieving: on the one hand, it's great to see young players improve, establish themselves, and generally look like positives and maybe even future building blocks. But on the other, it gives a false hope of contention that might shift the FO away from better long-term strategies in search of short-term success.

At their core, I truly think the Spurs are a centerpiece away. Not a piece away, like a Collins or Allen or whichever big man - but a centerpiece, someone who can elevate the entire team, be the focus of an offense night-in, night-out, dictate the pace of the game, and close out games as the star of the team. White is that man some days, but he's both inconsistent and far too fragile to be considered a "centerpiece"; Keldon looks to be developing in that direction, but I still don't think he'll ever reach those heights, since he lacks court vision and distribution instincts that help other star wings (see: Tatum) be the centerpiece of their team's offense. At his absolute peak, I see Keldon as a star, a great two-way player that can score on demand whilst also defending the other team's best wing. But not a Doncic type of player.

So, from this perspective, losing DJ at the middle of the season (which would naturally push the Spurs towards the bottom of the ranks) would not be a bad thing at all. Moreso, his value is unlikely to be higher than it is right now - he's a year removed from injury, looking better than ever, and leading the team. Unless the Spurs FO really think they can develop him into something "else" than what he is right now, the right move would be selling high on him after having rehabbed his value.

...for the record, though, this is never going to happen. I acknowledge this. Doesn't mean I agree with it, but the Spurs are very clearly aiming for one last playoff push in this Pop era.

I don't get it. Your'e strategy is to continually trade young players who impact winning until you get a Doncic level prospect? It could be a year or it could be 30 years.

[FkLA]

There's noticeable improvement in his game. There's still turnovers and the occasional dumb/inopportune iso but overall the good has easily outweighed the bad.

Keep improving.

[Atl Spur]

Dribbles to high and decision making must get better if possible.

[Capt Bringdown]

Yo, let buddy play well for a full year or two Dejounte before going your victory lap The kid is a good two guard with a inconsistent shot, above average defense/rebounding. Let’s see how it plays out......

This. You'd think they need to open a new wing in the NBA Hall of Fame the way these fanbois be whimpering.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Umm yeah not even close to Parker two totally different players and skill sets

No they are pretty similar in terms of what they have in the tool box: penetration to the rim primarily for the below the rim score, mid-range jumper second option. Both are middling passers. Not super different.

[Sugus]

Totally get what you mean but in our scenario and roster that one piece is probably a C or PF. If we trade Murray and then White gets injured again next year, we will have our piece but Lonnie, Mills (whom I don’t want to resign) or Tre Jones would have to be our pg. Spurs I think put extra attention to this position so unless Tre Jones can be a viable starter incase of injury (maybe but time will tell) Murray is too valuable to our team over the next 3-4 years. Hate to say it but Lonnie plus a vet would probably have to be the trade to get us that piece.

To be honest, I don't think DJ plays such an irreplaceable role that the Spurs couldn't function properly if he gets traded. The Spurs are specifically built to have multiple players sharing ballhandling duties - our rebounding rate would probably suffer, and DD/LMA would have to work more to get into their sets, but it wouldn't be anything too serious. DeMar, Lonnie, Keldon, Patty, and even Tre can all handle the ball sufficiently well for the Spurs to prescind of Dejounte (though as I said earlier, our Ws column definitely would feel the hit, which is part of the hypothetical plan). I don't think Dejounte is as instrumental to the team as this argument makes him seem.

I understand the logic, but I don't see any of the youngers (KJ, DJ, DV, LW) or even White as a finished product, so I see a chance that any of these boys will become such a piece of construction (or none of them, or more than one , who knows?), nobody saw this coming up with Kawhi before it happened (and no, none of these guys are going to be as good as Kawhi), but if all these guys reach their expected potential or close to it, the team will be a good team and compe ive enough to receive your star like what happened with the Nets this season (for example)

Ehh, can't agree with you there. It's easy to look at any given young player and say they "haven't reached their ceiling", or "still have so much room for growth", but the reality is that players mostly flash the kind of ceiling they'll have in their first season or two. Players that are true centerpieces, definitely tend to flash that potential (or at least, flash the tools that will get them to that ceiling) pretty early on - Kawhi improving the way he did, as late as he did, is definitely the exception and not the rule (and even then, you can argue he showed flashes of brilliance early, especially on D).

I also wouldn't consider assuming any of our young players having a Kawhi-like trajectory as anything close to a plan. More like hopeful thinking. The team can't be putting all their eggs on such a massive improvement from one of our young guys - or they shouldn't, IMO, at least. That's my point.

[Sugus]

I don't get it. Your'e strategy is to continually trade young players who impact winning until you get a Doncic level prospect? It could be a year or it could be 30 years.

Not really. The strategy is to sell high on prospects who you've developed, but don't think will have the potential to be significant pieces of your future (and this can be due to their perceived ceilings, fit on the team, age, etc), so you can get a positive ROI on them that you can re-invest until yes, you "strike gold" with a franchise-changing talent. In this example, turning DJ, a 29th pick, into a mid-to-late lottery pick (absolutely feasible with the way he's been playing) is a great W. You don't necessarily have to bottom out to get that franchise changing talent, though, especially with the new flattened odds - it's all about maximizing your opportunities, and also understanding where your team is at. The Spurs aren't (IMO) ready for true contention, talent-wise, so shipping out an already developed, but lower ceiling prospect, for the chance at a higher ceiling one, is a sound strategy....

...That I accept the Spurs might not share with me. The FO definitely looks content with DJ's play right now. Chances of a trade are slim to none.

[SpursDynasty85]

To be honest, I don't think DJ plays such an irreplaceable role that the Spurs couldn't function properly if he gets traded. The Spurs are specifically built to have multiple players sharing ballhandling duties - our rebounding rate would probably suffer, and DD/LMA would have to work more to get into their sets, but it wouldn't be anything too serious. DeMar, Lonnie, Keldon, Patty, and even Tre can all handle the ball sufficiently well for the Spurs to prescind of Dejounte (though as I said earlier, our Ws column definitely would feel the hit, which is part of the hypothetical plan). I don't think Dejounte is as instrumental to the team as this argument makes him seem.

Didn't mention this year. It's next year where I worry about PG duties should White go out. I'm assuming Patty and Demar do not resign. Then it is Lonnie and Tre Jones as our pgs besides White. I assume our draft pick/free agent will address PF/C needs. Considering the long amount of time grooming Dejounte. I really doubt Dejounte gets traded. I see Lonnie as the first to go. he has to fight so many players to eek into the rotation the way he wants now.

[boutons_deux]

Spurs shooting has gone stone cold

[RC_Drunkford]

22 points and 14 rebounds tonight. Kid is performing consistently. He still has a lot to work on, but he'll only get better at this point

[r0drig0lac]

22/14/4 another victory, not bad for the kid who should be playing in China...lol "studs spurstalk"

[Sugus]

Didn't mention this year. It's next year where I worry about PG duties should White go out. I'm assuming Patty and Demar do not resign. Then it is Lonnie and Tre Jones as our pgs besides White. I assume our draft pick/free agent will address PF/C needs. Considering the long amount of time grooming Dejounte. I really doubt Dejounte gets traded. I see Lonnie as the first to go. he has to fight so many players to eek into the rotation the way he wants now.

Ah, I see your point then. Counterpoint: IF the Spurs trade DJ, and the hit on PG-duties is as big as you say it would be (which again, considering the roster is specifically built to have many ball-handlers sharing duties by default, is unlikely), the Spurs could quite easily fill the temporal hole by signing a vet PG for the minimum or half the MLE. They aren't such a rare thing in the NBA as to be unobtainable - and again, this assumes White would miss a significant portion of next season, which I also don't think is a fair projection for him. For all we know, he could have a Curry-like recovery after his toe heals up, since that injury isn't related to his bouts of plantar fasciitis.

I agree with the rest though, and said as much in the first post - any thoughts of the Spurs trading DJ right now are nothing more than a pipe dream. The team is finally beginning to reap the sows of all the time invested in developing him, and I doubt they'll let him go without at least playing out a season or two of his contract. It doesn't worry me much, though I certainly would prefer the Spurs to follow my blueprint and sell high on him.

[Sugus]

22/14/4 another victory, not bad for the kid who should be playing in China...lol "studs spurstalk"

I swear, the only thing that amazes me more than ST getting takes consistently wrong, is ST's ability to completely forget that they said those things, and make a complete 180º turn into saying they "believed in him all along" or some like that. Where's all those posters calling him "IG Baller" now? Sure was a popular nickname before the season started, and through last season, tbh....