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  1. #2651
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    I mean Ja really only upped his point average while DJ kinda upped everything. DJ also upped his defense which is something Ja never did. Plus Ja missed 25 games. That’s gotta count for something when Memphis went 21-4 without him. Ja winning this is stupid. Why didn’t Luka win it then when he went from 23 points a game to 29 9 and 9?
    DJ was always known as a player that impacted defense. He won a defensive award in his second season. If anything he’s been his normal self there. It’s his offensive improvement together with improved usage that gets him the award IMO. I understand your point and it’s a very valid one, but you don’t need to discount what Ja accomplished to recognize how good DJ was.

    Players that have won this award in recent mind are Ingram and Giannis. I think people assume that Ja was this massive star because he whipped the Spurs since he was drafted. He wasn’t. Last season the Grizzlies didn’t have a good record against the elite teams, he missed the all star team. He was on the level of Fox and guys of that nature. He’s raised the bar and that’s really tough to do tbh. If you all want to be salty don’t let me stop you.

    Hopefully this is only fuel for DJ to dominate further.

  2. #2652
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    I mean Ja really only upped his point average while DJ kinda upped everything. DJ also upped his defense which is something Ja never did. Plus Ja missed 25 games. That’s gotta count for something when Memphis went 21-4 without him. Ja winning this is stupid. Why didn’t Luka win it then when he went from 23 points a game to 29 9 and 9?
    I was OK with Ja winning it, but your post has made me change my stance on it. I agree with SA Girl that Ja improved, but darn, he mostly upped his scoring and with his team going 21-4 without him, I don't think he was deserving of it. Great player, I am a big fan of his game, but you are right, he missed 25 games and his team did fine without him. Tough call, but for me the spirit of the award is more for guys that weren't expected to be stars and have had huge development/turnaround in their games.

  3. #2653
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    Lame. I could see Garland getting it over DJ, but Ja shouldn’t have been in consideration from the jump.

    Awards aside, the growth DJ showed this year was a true joy to watch. Proud that he’s carrying SA the way he has.

  4. #2654
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    DJ was always known as a player that impacted defense. He won a defensive award in his second season. If anything he’s been his normal self there. It’s his offensive improvement together with improved usage that gets him the award IMO. I understand your point and it’s a very valid one, but you don’t need to discount what Ja accomplished to recognize how good DJ was.

    Players that have won this award in recent mind are Ingram and Giannis. I think people assume that Ja was this massive star because he whipped the Spurs since he was drafted. He wasn’t. Last season the Grizzlies didn’t have a good record against the elite teams, he missed the all star team. He was on the level of Fox and guys of that nature. He’s raised the bar and that’s really tough to do tbh. If you all want to be salty don’t let me stop you.

    Hopefully this is only fuel for DJ to dominate further.
    It’s not discounting Ja, it’s just a fact. All he did was improve his scoring. He didn’t improve anything else. DJ improved on 3 areas in scoring, assisting, and defense. I know he made second team D like 4 years ago. He should make it again this year too. But DJ led the league in steals. And was second in triple Dubs. The dude just improved more than Ja improved. Also the Grizz went bananas against the top teams without him. They have a better record without him. And it’s not particularly close. The reason why the Grizz are the 2 seed isn’t primarily bc of Ja, it’s bc of the others in JJJ and Bane. They stepped up their games big time too. You can’t miss a third of the season and be why your team is the second seed. It doesn’t work that way.

    Giannis won bc he came into the league averaging like 8 points a game or some . He should’ve won the award. And Ingram I felt was a consolation prize by the media to NO for giving up on AD. Like look you got the MIP. See it was a good trade for both teams . Bc there’s zero metric where he should’ve won over Luka other than we expected this from Luka

  5. #2655
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    It’s not discounting Ja, it’s just a fact. All he did was improve his scoring. He didn’t improve anything else. DJ improved on 3 areas in scoring, assisting, and defense. I know he made second team D like 4 years ago. He should make it again this year too. But DJ led the league in steals. And was second in triple Dubs. The dude just improved more than Ja improved. Also the Grizz went bananas against the top teams without him. They have a better record without him. And it’s not particularly close. The reason why the Grizz are the 2 seed isn’t primarily bc of Ja, it’s bc of the others in JJJ and Bane. They stepped up their games big time too. You can’t miss a third of the season and be why your team is the second seed. It doesn’t work that way.

    Giannis won bc he came into the league averaging like 8 points a game or some . He should’ve won the award. And Ingram I felt was a consolation prize by the media to NO for giving up on AD. Like look you got the MIP. See it was a good trade for both teams . Bc there’s zero metric where he should’ve won over Luka other than we expected this from Luka
    The years the Spurs were competing for championships Pop was often able to win games where he rested his stars, or had maybe one guy injured. The Spurs just trucked along with whoever was able to play. The team was able to do that because they were well coached and well balanced. But winning without all his horses was not sustainable for Pop a whole season, and it certainly would have lowered the teams ceiling if it went on too long. The Grizzlies are well coached and have a well balanced roster. I have to credit Jenkins and their development staff, but without Ja their ceiling is much lower and they would be worse if that were to continue for the whole season. I just hate this thing that fans do where they have to hate on other players to prop up their guy, it's lame and salty and only diminishes their point. Instead of making a case for DJ, people start making a case against Ja.

    Listen, Dejounte had a great season. He was a 2nd finalist for this thing and it was a close race. Nothing to be ashamed of there. Now he just needs to maintain consistency on the level he's reached and build upon that. If the Spurs had made the playoffs he would have had some additional recognition. That is always taken into consideration too. It was in the case of Giannis and Randle, among others. But you do you.


  6. #2656
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    I could make a better case for Ja, citing stats and other things, including analytics and areas of improvement but I don't want to, because it's a waste of time here. This forum is the shrine of Murray, and I am not taking anything away from DJ.

    However, I want to add that specifically concerning Murray, making the playoffs brings recognition to the team's leader, and makes that player more marketable to the average and casual NBA fan. The Spurs were not on National TV all year and missed the playoffs. Things like that matter to the player, his dad is already mentioning it. I think DJ is not that close to his dad anyway, but his camp is surely noticing as well.

    Long term, I definitely think that DJ wants to be competing for championships, and he will tire of missing the playoffs and missing awards because he was playing for a bad, media-neglected team. I have talked about timelines before and I think its possible the Spurs and Murray are on different timelines. I am not sure, because the Spurs want to remain compe ive, and DJ helps them do that, but at the same time, he's not enough by himself (very few players are -- short of a real MVP like Jokic) to get the team in the playoffs and the Spurs need to improve their roster to help him get there. I don't claim to have a crystal ball to see how it's going to go, but it will be interesting to see what the Spurs do this summer to improve the roster.
    Last edited by SAGirl; 04-26-2022 at 08:40 AM. Reason: grammar

  7. #2657
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    https://twitter.com/spursnationcp/st...3GHSd1bAHVnBqw

    I know DJM is driven and it’s good. But none of the Big 3 would care if they didn't win the MIP. Just saying.

  8. #2658
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    https://twitter.com/spursnationcp/st...3GHSd1bAHVnBqw

    I know DJM is driven and it’s good. But none of the Big 3 would care if they didn't win the MIP. Just saying.
    parker might have but he would have been put in his place rather quickly.

  9. #2659
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    https://twitter.com/spursnationcp/st...3GHSd1bAHVnBqw

    I know DJM is driven and it’s good. But none of the Big 3 would care if they didn't win the MIP. Just saying.
    Fair point, but I suppose winning les keeps people happy. Without that, the All Star game, winning awards, that's what DJ has to back up his success. He always gets emo, but then that drives him as well so not a big issue to me. Changing times.

  10. #2660
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    He improved significantly. His percentages are better, it wasn’t just usage. He went from being an inconsistent player that got a team through the play in, to dominating consistently. His improvement was legit. The ability to be consistent is what improved his overall productivity. He was a guy with potential same as many other guys who can get hot on occasion and disappear just as often.

    Wasn’t Ingram kind of the same? That’s how these awards go. It’s always whoever improves the most and is the best player of the group, with improvements in the team record factored in. Heck Morant won ROY almost by default bc Zion missed so many games their first season. He wasn’t this dominant player from day 1. He had a lot of potential but was very inconsistent and a poor shooter. I think spursfan here is just salty but that’s just me tbh.

    To me all 3 guys were deserving but I feel like Morant is discounted here, when not to recognize his improvement would be the biggest diss.
    Yeah, Kobe improved significantly from 2000 to 2001, he still didn't win it, because that's not the spirit of the award.

    I feel like Ingram shouldn't have won it either, but his case is a little different. He looked like a bust for some years there, so when he finally lived up to his potential, I can understand why the award was given to him.

    Morant has been on a clear ascendent trajectory ever since he got to the league. The clear trajectory that superstars usually have, and they have never won MIP.

  11. #2661
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    I try not to stress out about these individuals awards very much. They're overvalued in my opinion, and often ruled by trendy raw stats, and popular narratives in the media. Marcus Camby, Tyson Chandler, Marc Gasol, and Joakim Noah all have Defensive Player of the Year awards while Timmy has zero. None of those guys were as impactful as Duncan was at his best and definitely didn't have his longevity.
    Last edited by R. DeMurre; 04-26-2022 at 05:49 PM.

  12. #2662
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    T I just hate this thing that fans do where they have to hate on other players to prop up their guy, it's lame and salty and only diminishes their point. Instead of making a case for DJ, people start making a case against Ja.



    Can you point to where we are hating on Ja? What I have seen from most is saying he did not deserve it because he was already a great player. He won rookie of the year or was a second round pick. None of those statements would I consider to be tearing down what Ja did or trying to imply that he is not a good player. The closest "hate" I could see would be where people are saying his numbers did not improve as much. (mostly this is being said because he was already good). Once again I dont consider this hateing on a player but people putting out their opinion.

  13. #2663
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Guys I let it lie already, fwiw.

  14. #2664
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    Not only did Murray make a big leap from last season, if you look at how he played this season, he made huge leaps within this season month by month. By the end of March he was averaging 25ppg for the month. That is amazing improvement from where he was after the first couple of months of the season. I wish he didn't get sick so we could have seen if he could have continued that in April and the play-in games. I hope he can pick up next season where he left off in March.

  15. #2665
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    Too bad NBA is still about entertainment and if as a guard you are not shooting extremely long 3ptrs or cutting people up and jamming you do not get to be regarded highly.

  16. #2666
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    I try not to stress out about these individuals awards very much. They're overvalued in my opinion, and often ruled by trendy raw stats, and popular narratives in the media. Marcus Camby, Tyson Chandler, Marc Gasol, and Joakim Noah all have Defensive Player of the Year awards while Timmy has zero. None of those guys were as impactful as Duncan was at his best and definitely didn't have his longevity.
    The reason being, the MIP is meant for the little people, as not for the 2nd overall draft pick. It’s for players who overachieved and proved teams wrong for passing on them. The voters should really think hard who rightly embraced the true meaning of the award. I wouldn’t even bothered if they selected Jordan Poole. But yeah, DJM would be much deserving than Ja.

  17. #2667
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    If it was a season without Murray as a finalist and it was between Ja and Garland, Garland should win it. Ja isn’t deserving of this award. And it has nothing to do with Murray. Case closed.

  18. #2668
    "The ball don't lie." dbestpro's Avatar
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    Too bad NBA is still about entertainment and if as a guard you are not shooting extremely long 3ptrs or cutting people up and jamming you do not get to be regarded highly.
    They are about the perception of entertainment. The game was more entertaining when it was physicial and defense was allowed.

  19. #2669
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    The reason being, the MIP is meant for the little people, as not for the 2nd overall draft pick. It’s for players who overachieved and proved teams wrong for passing on them. The voters should really think hard who rightly embraced the true meaning of the award. I wouldn’t even bothered if they selected Jordan Poole. But yeah, DJM would be much deserving than Ja.
    This sums it up nicely. This is what I think the true spirit of this award is for. Not for the a number 2 pick. That player is expected to do well. What Ja has done is prove that he should have been drafted that high. It's not a shock that he's doing this well. Murray, though, IMO is proving teams wrong that passed on him. Up until he got sick and didn't finish out the season well upon his return, he was probably even surprising fans of his own team that had watched him for years (if that is not most improved, I don't know what is). I don't know what the criteria for this award is, but whatever it is, it's wrong IMO.

  20. #2670
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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  21. #2671
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    I want to believe him, but the West will be tough (NO are going to be good, the Clippers should have both PG and KL, and the Lakers would also likely improve), so I hope he comes through and leads/helps get us there. If they could do it through natural improvement, that would be incredible, but I think they're going to need to upgrade in the off-season to have a chance to make it.

  22. #2672
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    I believe in him. He’s the team’s leader and being candid with his desire. That’s why I say he will eventually tire of continually trying to make it but coming up short. He may very well be even better next season, learn to win the close games, but its a team sport. Spurs and supporting cast need to improve too.

  23. #2673
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    Spurs will likely improve with another year of experience for our young guys. But even if we do make the playoffs next season, we’re an easy first round out tbh. Just no real high-end talent on this team, and you need that to win at this level. DJ as our best player will never be more than First Round fodder imo.

  24. #2674
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    Spurs will likely improve with another year of experience for our young guys. But even if we do make the playoffs next season, we’re an easy first round out tbh. Just no real high-end talent on this team, and you need that to win at this level. DJ as our best player will never be more than First Round fodder imo.

    gotta prove they can make the playoffs first,tbh

  25. #2675
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    As of now, with roster as is, we are 4th in our own division. That’s seldom a recipe for post season entry.

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