Woj:San Antonio's Tim Duncan exercises player option

[TheGoldStandard]

Chinook - so let's assume a few things:

1. Tim either plays or retires but gets paid and not stretched (so his money counts this year against cap only is what I'm saying)

2. Boris (or anyone not traded)

3. Spurs simply waive Simmons and renounce all others that they can cap holds (the entire list)

Where does that leave the Spurs salary wise including roster charges?

My math has that at about 82M total salaries/roster charges? That would give SA 12M in cap space (roughly) and the following players:

LMA
Kawhi
Danny
Tim
TP
Boris
Kyle
Mills

But no: Simmons, Boban, Bonner, Manu, Miller, West, Martin, LJC, Milu or Murray.

Obviously doesn't seem likely, but sound accurate? If they can trade Boris, that gets them to about 19M in cap space still, but still having to replace all the players they renounced. Which we know they have talked about bringing in Bertans, keeping Boban, obviously brining back Manu, etc..

Seems like no cap space is the route.

Matty drove a pontiac for a long time.. if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[DPG21920]

How in the is that different than Tim opting in? It doesn't matter when Tim signs or in what order the other FAs sign if he's going to sign for basically the same amount after he's renounced.

PATFO can basically still free up 12-15m by making other move, Tim opting-in has no impact on it since his Bird Right is useless.

You didn't say this last part in your first response - you seem to be changing gears now. What do you mean how is it different? Tim opting in this year gets Tim 5+M. Tim doing what I said gets him 10M - do you not see the difference. If Tim is playing like you think, then opting in cost him 5M in my scenario. But it's not just about that number. He could have taken less than he's getting this year (say 3M) but got 2 years at 3M per for 6M total and came out ahead. So even if worst case he had to take the Room Exception, he would be breaking even while having a way better shot at a le because of the flexibility afforded by him opting out.

I see what you are saying with regards to him opting in at 5M vs signing 5M doesn't hurt the would be flexibility unless he was willing to take less. The point was either way, opting in cost him money most likely and hurt chances to improve the team.

Tim opting in absolutely impacts the cap space and flexibility. Sure, SA can still create cap space, it just means trading players now which depletes talent and makes it harder.

That would be the ultimate slap in the face to LMA who's going to be reduced to playing alongside a vet min center.

Well, we will see.

[Kawhitstorm]

What you say is fair, but if the ball bounces differently in a few plays at the end of games 2 and 5 we win that series 4-1 and face a banged up Dubs in the WCFs. We were literally a couple of bad luck plays away from winning that series. It won't take a whole lot to get back there.

If you want to ignore the dumb play by OKC at the end of Gm 2 & the bone headed turnovers in the last 2 minutes of Gm 3 then I guess you're right. They weren't beating OKC w/ a broken down Tim as they had no answer for the Kanter/Adams duo.

[T Park]

Get ready for Olapido torching Tony and what else can the Spurs do? throw patty Mills at him? lol..

Torch him how? Making a shot outside 15 feet? That would be a first. They'd give him the Roberson treatment

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

That's true. But like I said, considering the age of so many key guys (Duncan, Manu, Parker, Diaw...that's half of the rotation potentially facing a decline), I don't think we'll be as good as we were last year if we just bring everyone back.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not steaming mad at the idea of PATFO standing pat and keeping everyone together. And I'm not saying they'd have no chance at all of winning a le. I just think it'd be a pretty big longshot. I certainly wouldn't feel too confident in our le chances.

I'd really like us to at least address one of the key issues from last year's team. The 3 biggest ones IMO were 1) lack of a playmaker/penetrator outside of Parker/Manu, both of whom are inconsistent, 2) lack of volume 3-point shooting, and 3) all of our bigs were immobile and struggled to guard the PnR.

Totally agree, but not much FO can do this summer given the cap and players available.

I'd still really like to see us trade Mills for MCW and Plumlee, which kinda plugs two holes (backup PG and mobile C) at once: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

It'd give Chip a year to see what he can do to rehab MCW's shot, and Plumlee is a decent pnr big. Not a bad stopgap until the team is properly rebuilt in 2017.

[TheGoldStandard]

Torch him how? Making a shot outside 15 feet? That would be a first. They'd give him the Roberson treatment

Honestly I think Oladipo can penetrate either off the ball or in the PnR.. Much different scenario than he was playing with in Orlando. OKC could have 3 legit ball handlers on the court at any given time and Vic is a much better player than Waiters.

[Kawhitstorm]

What do you mean how is it different? Tim opting in this year gets Tim 5+M. Tim doing what I said gets him 10M - do you not see the difference. If Tim is playing like you think, then opting in cost him 5M in my scenario. But it's not just about that number. He could have taken less than he's getting this year (say 3M) but got 2 years at 3M per for 6M total and came out ahead. So even if worst case he had to take the Room Exception, he would be breaking even while having a way better shot at a le because of the flexibility afforded by him opting out.

Basically, PATFO are planning on staying pat this summer but want to clear cap space for 2017 thus giving Tim a 1+1 would get in the way. It's just better to pay everyone this summer, let them enjoy their retirement tour (which won't include a champions) then reload next summer when Diaw/Patty/Tim/Manu will be off the books & PATFO won't have to worry about player options or dumping salaries.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

If you want to ignore the dumb play by OKC at the end of Gm 2 & the bone headed turnovers in the last 2 minutes of Gm 3 then I guess you're right. They weren't beating OKC w/ a broken down Tim as they had no answer for the Kanter/Adams duo.

Dude, I watched every game twice, I know what happened. I was simply making the point that even with a broken Tim and a bench that didn't show up the series was very close. I don't think it's great that we have to bring back much the same team, but that's where we are and it'll still win 55 games.

Game 5 we should never have lost - LMA missed 2 bunnies, TP played hero-ball rather than going to Kawhi. And if we win that it's going 7 and we're a coin-flip to win it.

[T Park]

If you want to ignore the dumb play by OKC at the end of Gm 2 & the bone headed turnovers in the last 2 minutes of Gm 3 then I guess you're right. They weren't beating OKC w/ a broken down Tim as they had no answer for the Kanter/Adams duo.

There's a difference between dumb plays and a bounce of the ball.....

[Kawhitstorm]

Game 5 we should never have lost - LMA missed 2 bunnies, TP played hero-ball rather than going to Kawhi. And if we win that it's going 7 and we're a coin-flip to win it.

Expecting Softridge to show up in GM 7 & Porker not to hero ball like he did in Gm 7 against the Cripples.

[T Park]

Honestly I think Oladipo can penetrate either off the ball or in the PnR.. Much different scenario than he was playing with in Orlando. OKC could have 3 legit ball handlers on the court at any given time and Vic is a much better player than Waiters.

So Russ shoots the outside shot or Roberson. Sounds good

[T Park]

Totally agree, but not much FO can do this summer given the cap and players available.

I'd still really like to see us trade Mills for MCW and Plumlee, which kinda plugs two holes (backup PG and mobile C) at once: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

It'd give Chip a year to see what he can do to rehab MCW's shot, and Plumlee is a decent pnr big. Not a bad stopgap until the team is properly rebuilt in 2017.

I do not understand this site's fascination with Carter-Williams and Plumlee.

They're complete stiffs

[TheGoldStandard]

Expecting Softridge to show up in GM 7 & Porker not to hero ball like he did in Gm 7 against the Cripples.

1/11 in his final french national game.. lol.. that's what we have to look forward to.

[Kawhitstorm]

There's a difference between dumb plays and a bounce of the ball.....

The ball did "bounce" of Durant's hands after Kawhi grabbed WestBrook's jersey to prevent him from catching the inbound.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Expecting Softridge to show up in GM 7 & Porker not to hero ball like he did in Gm 7 against the Cripples.

Come on dude, why we fightin? I din't expect anything. Just pointing out that the series was actually pretty close even with the Spurs playing like crap and the Thunder playing out of their skins.

[raybies]

1/11 in his final french national game.. lol.. that's what we have to look forward to.

oh my gosh I didn't even see the box score. Has he had any decent games?

[Chinook]

I guess I should also note that the Spurs can use use cap space this summer, especially if they commit to using the room exception on Manu if he returns. They'll have $10,534,634 at least in space going into the summer. That's enough to sign a decent piece (and then to make further trades with cap space), but it's also enough to match Boban, sign Bertans and still have $3-6 Million to use on someone else -- while keeping Manu's old contract slot open. Obviously, you'd like to know about Manu ASAP, because the Spurs could get even more cap space if they push Boban over to the room exception (about $9 Million), enough to bring in a decent free agent even with the cap rising.

Let's look at one scenario:

Tim is retiring and intends to keep at least some of the money on his option. Manu has also decided that he's not coming back. The team intends to bring over LJC and keep Murray in the States. (Note: They tendered Boban here, but they aren't going to use his QO unless he signs it, so I'm leaving him out for this first bit.)

The Spurs' rotation looks like this:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson,
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Duncan (contract), roster charge

They have $10,534,634 in space plus the room exception.


They also intend to sign Bertans on a three-year deal conveniently totaling $4,947,359. That give the Spurs exactly $9.5 Million to offer to Gasol. Then you sign Boban to the room exception to get this:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson, Bertans
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Gasol, Marjanovic

(Don't worry about Arcidiacono right now. I would assume the team will ink him after all this is done.)

So they have Duncan's contract and potentially Diaw's and Patty's waiting in the wings. The obvious goal here is to pursue a two-guard with that contract. The exact amount of Tim's option is still up for debate. I have been considering it $5,643,750, which would mean the Spurs could take back up to $8,565,625 in return salary. That would be enough to get Lou Williams, Jodie Meeks, Jeremy Lamb or an Eric Gordon S&T. Combine him with Mills, and you get into Monta Ellis and Brandon Knight territory (up to $13,934,047). Let's just say Gordon because I've been saying him. Then you round out the roster with one or two min players. I'm going to say Lorbek here (since he's probably the most balanced option), but it could obviously be a guy like Cady or a ring-chaser like Scola.

So that leaves this roster minus camp contracts:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Gordon, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson, Bertans
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Gasol, Marjanovic, Lorbek

I like it. I don't think the defense would be particularly close to as good as it was this year. But the offense should be steadier. I don't love the bench, as it would rely on Anderson being the primary play-maker from the worse position in the game to run an offense. I'd like it a lot more with a faster center and more shooting from the front court. But I think it's pretty good for a transitional year. No one can say it's too small, but I'd like more from the guards still. Shooting wouldn't be an issue anymore. Adding Mills and getting Knight would be more ideal, so long as the team could get a steady PG for the min from somewhere (Europe?). Anderson moving to the four would also help if Diaw can be moved for something.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I do not understand this site's fascination with Carter-Williams and Plumlee.

They're complete stiffs

No-one was talking about MCW until I brought him up, so blame me!

MCW's still young, long, athletic, pretty good defender and rebounder, can dish, can't shoot for - but he's a low risk to become a high reward if he takes to the system and works hard with the development staff. Diamond in the rough IMHO, and I think Spurs could turn him into Sean Livingston+. Worth a gamble when all we lose is a streaky backup PG who seems to have lost his mojo somewhat.

Plumlee would be a stop-gap for one year.

And we get two guys for one.

[TheGoldStandard]

oh my gosh I didn't even see the box score. Has he had any decent games?

The apologists will state that he did have 6 assists.. lol.. He had some decent ones back in 2013

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

The ball did "bounce" of Durant's hands after Kawhi grabbed WestBrook's jersey to prevent him from catching the inbound.

...after Waiters shoved Manu who had stepped inbounds...

[SD126]

No-one was talking about MCW until I brought him up, so blame me!

MCW's still young, long, athletic, pretty good defender and rebounder, can dish, can't shoot for - but he's a low risk to become a high reward if he takes to the system and works hard with the development staff. Diamond in the rough IMHO, and I think Spurs could turn him into Sean Livingston+. Worth a gamble when all we lose is a streaky backup PG who seems to have lost his mojo somewhat.

Plumlee would be a stop-gap for one year.

And we get two guys for one.

Drafting Murray makes going after MCW moot. But it's not like PATFO has interest to begin with.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I guess I should also note that the Spurs can use use cap space this summer, especially if they commit to using the room exception on Manu if he returns. They'll have $10,534,634 at least in space going into the summer. That's enough to sign a decent piece (and then to make further trades with cap space), but it's also enough to match Boban, sign Bertans and still have $3-6 Million to use on someone else -- while keeping Manu's old contract slot open. Obviously, you'd like to know about Manu ASAP, because the Spurs could get even more cap space if they push Boban over to the room exception (about $9 Million), enough to bring in a decent free agent even with the cap rising.

Let's look at one scenario:

Tim is retiring and intends to keep at least some of the money on his option. Manu has also decided that he's not coming back. The team intends to bring over LJC and keep Murray in the States. (Note: They tendered Boban here, but they aren't going to use his QO unless he signs it, so I'm leaving him out for this first bit.)

The Spurs' rotation looks like this:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson,
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Duncan (contract), roster charge

They have $10,534,634 in space plus the room exception.


They also intend to sign Bertans on a three-year deal conveniently totaling $4,947,359. That give the Spurs exactly $9.5 Million to offer to Gasol. Then you sign Boban to the room exception to get this:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson, Bertans
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Gasol, Marjanovic

(Don't worry about Arcidiacono right now. I would assume the team will ink him after all this is done.)

So they have Duncan's contract and potentially Diaw's and Patty's waiting in the wings. The obvious goal here is to pursue a two-guard with that contract. The exact amount of Tim's option is still up for debate. I have been considering it $5,643,750, which would mean the Spurs could take back up to $8,565,625 in return salary. That would be enough to get Lou Williams, Jodie Meeks, Jeremy Lamb or an Eric Gordon S&T. Combine him with Mills, and you get into Monta Ellis and Brandon Knight territory (up to $13,934,047). Let's just say Gordon because I've been saying him. Then you round out the roster with one or two min players. I'm going to say Lorbek here (since he's probably the most balanced option), but it could obviously be a guy like Cady or a ring-chaser like Scola.

So that leaves this roster minus camp contracts:

PG: Parker, Mills, Murray
SG: Green, Gordon, Simmons
SF: Leonard, Anderson, Bertans
PF: Aldridge, Diaw, LJC
C: Gasol, Marjanovic, Lorbek

I like it. I don't think the defense would be particularly close to as good as it was this year. But the offense should be steadier. I don't love the bench, as it would rely on Anderson being the primary play-maker from the worse position in the game to run an offense. I'd like it a lot more with a faster center and more shooting from the front court. But I think it's pretty good for a transitional year. No one can say it's too small, but I'd like more from the guards still. Shooting wouldn't be an issue anymore. Adding Mills and getting Knight would be more ideal, so long as the team could get a steady PG for the min from somewhere (Europe?). Anderson moving to the four would also help if Diaw can be moved for something.

Interesting rundown, thanks.

You should go for an assistant GM position.

[T Park]

No-one was talking about MCW until I brought him up, so blame me!

MCW's still young, long, athletic, pretty good defender and rebounder, can dish, can't shoot for - but he's a low risk to become a high reward if he takes to the system and works hard with the development staff. Diamond in the rough IMHO, and I think Spurs could turn him into Sean Livingston+. Worth a gamble when all we lose is a streaky backup PG who seems to have lost his mojo somewhat.

Plumlee would be a stop-gap for one year.

And we get two guys for one.

None of this makes any sense at all to justify Carter-Williams.

Also, Plumlee sucks. Period. Sucks. Sucks so bad that he could barely get run with a team in Milwaukee.


He's a white Jeff Ayres.

[raybies]

The apologists will state that he did have 6 assists.. lol.. He had some decent ones back in 2013

Wow, so the sticks are already starting to fall. I'm not sure I want to make this bold prediction yet, but i've said previously that how ironic it would be for Murray to take Parker's spot, like Parker took Daniels' spot in '01. Both rookies, about the same age. We'll see. Next step is Murray playing Summer League and showing some improvement.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Drafting Murray makes going after MCW moot. But it's not like PATFO has interest to begin with.

Not this year it doesn't. Murray won't be contributing much for a while.

And if MCW does improve, would't you love to have 2 long PG/combos in 2017 and beyond?