Woj:San Antonio's Tim Duncan exercises player option

[TheGoldStandard]

We will see what Tim ends up doing; Woj nailed the Tim picking up his option thing subtly so him mentioning Tim might drag his decision into Free Agency is something to expect at this point (which sucks some for SA the team).

If he retires which I think is likely, SA is in a weird spot and we will see if they can even make any trades that make sense. I don't know how they would replace Tim and pay him his money without cap space and Boris being guaranteed. For that reason and others, I really hope Tim plays since that money is now spoken for anyways.

Seems like the band is getting back together (whether Tim plays or not) with minor tweaks like brining some of the younger stashes over to replace the older end of bench players.

I really hope SA doesn't stand pat beyond this year though - that would be really wasteful of LMA considering his age and could cause problems with him since he came to win les.

It also hurts there free agent pursuits because they will look back at how they handled the situation by not trying to improve roster to generate success..

[Chinook]

There was no way Tim could have gotten paid more & given the Spurs flexibility by opting out b/c his cap hold is actually larger than his salary. If he got renounced then the Spurs would lose his Bird Right thus they can't go over the cap to re-sign him.

The only way it Tim could have given the Spurs flexibility was by getting renounced & basically playing for the room exception or vet min. PATFO are basically bringing back the old crew b/c they aren't ready to strike in 2016.

Flexibility doesn't mean cap space. It means the ability to get cap space. Duncan's hold was almost completely irrelevant. With the moratorium, teams have plenty of time to work out details before they have to worry about the cap. With Duncan's contract locked into place, the team loses the ability to pitch a max slot with keeping the rest of their core intact. Maybe it was asking too much of Tim to opt out. But it definitely wasn't a good thing for the team's salary that he did.

Though we should have seen this coming with Manu. He's not playing for the min either if he comes back. The Spurs being over the cap means they really don't have to worry about his next contract. My guess is that the team is working with the tax as the hard cap this year. So they'll give Manu whatever is left after everything else happens.

[DPG21920]

Ya - this move with Tim/Boris is certainly a sign that SA does not believe they can get KD this year (maybe they think he won't leave until next year no matter what) or at all.

It's much harder to clear a path now for any big player that would say yes that the Spurs pursue.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

We will see what Tim ends up doing; Woj nailed the Tim picking up his option thing subtly so him mentioning Tim might drag his decision into Free Agency is something to expect at this point (which sucks some for SA the team).

If he retires which I think is likely, SA is in a weird spot and we will see if they can even make any trades that make sense. I don't know how they would replace Tim and pay him his money without cap space and Boris being guaranteed. For that reason and others, I really hope Tim plays since that money is now spoken for anyways.

Seems like the band is getting back together (whether Tim plays or not) with minor tweaks like brining some of the younger stashes over to replace the older end of bench players.

I really hope SA doesn't stand pat beyond this year though - that would be really wasteful of LMA considering his age and could cause problems with him since he came to win les.

Why would he do this? I can't believe that Tim and the FO haven't extensively talked through what he's doing and what it means for the team - makes no sense at all given that they've all worked together for 19 years.

Looks like Spurs are running it back with much the same squad plus a few youngsters, which I don't mind given the lack of capspace, 2016 FA money-orgy, and extremely small chance that Durant would come to SA. Put a year of development into Murray and whichever Euro/s come over (looking like LJC and Bertans?), and make a splash in 2017.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Ya - this move with Tim/Boris is certainly a sign that SA does not believe they can get KD this year (maybe they think he won't leave until next year no matter what) or at all.

It's much harder to clear a path now for any big player that would say yes that the Spurs pursue.

KD is not leaving OKC this year. Makes no sense for him to do so, as you know. They were so close that he'll give them one more chance then think it through again next year when he can max out his salary. But you know this - don't overthink it!

[DPG21920]

Why would he do this? I can't believe that Tim and the FO haven't extensively talked through what he's doing and what it means for the team - makes no sense at all given that they've all worked together for 19 years.

Looks like Spurs are running it back with much the same squad plus a few youngsters, which I don't mind given the lack of capspace, 2016 FA money-orgy, and extremely small chance that Durant would come to SA. Put a year of development into Murray and whichever Euro/s come over (looking like LJC and Bertans?), and make a splash in 2017.

Well, while I think that makes logical sense, I think Tim is really torn (like Woj mentioned). If he's leaning towards retirement then opting in makes sense so he can get paid his 5+M to retire (as was probably the agreement when he took the 1+1 deal last year).

I think Tim really is undecided on what he wants to do and opting in because of his deadline was the only thing he could do while he decides if he thinks retirement is a real possibility. He knows that it might limit SA's ability to build a better team this season if he ends up playing, but at some point he has to look out for himself as well. And it also seemed likely that SA wasn't going to land a big FA as well, so the flexibility to add players became less important too.

[DPG21920]

I just wonder how Kawhi/LMA feel about this if indeed SA doesn't improve and brings back the same squad but with several rookies?

I think if healthy (big if with TP/Manu/TD) SA is still a damn good team with the LMA/KL/DG core anchoring, but I can see that core being upset at the thought of wasting another year knowing they might not be good enough? Could create some problems.

SA front office in a weird spot right now with the old guard and doing right by them and the future. Luckily SA was damn good last year so people may think just some minor improvements (a young bench guy having a breakout year, KL getting better, Danny bouncing back, etc..) get SA to the top.

[Robz4000]

As long as Tim is back I'm good. Unless they got KD the team wouldn't be good enough to win without some lucky breaks, so lets see what happens. Maybe Kawhi finally becomes MJ 2.0?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Well, while I think that makes logical sense, I think Tim is really torn (like Woj mentioned). If he's leaning towards retirement then opting in makes sense so he can get paid his 5+M to retire (as was probably the agreement when he took the 1+1 deal last year).

I think Tim really is undecided on what he wants to do and opting in because of his deadline was the only thing he could do while he decides if he thinks retirement is a real possibility. He knows that it might limit SA's ability to build a better team this season if he ends up playing, but at some point he has to look out for himself as well. And it also seemed likely that SA wasn't going to land a big FA as well, so the flexibility to add players became less important too.

Over 5mil that the franchise would give him to do nothing as an "executive" in the FO if he asked? I don't see it. I think opting in means he wants to play.

I just wonder how Kawhi/LMA feel about this if indeed SA doesn't improve and brings back the same squad but with several rookies?

I think if healthy (big if with TP/Manu/TD) SA is still a damn good team with the LMA/KL/DG core anchoring, but I can see that core being upset at the thought of wasting another year knowing they might not be good enough? Could create some problems.

SA front office in a weird spot right now with the old guard and doing right by them and the future. Luckily SA was damn good last year so people may think just some minor improvements (a young bench guy having a breakout year, KL getting better, Danny bouncing back, etc..) get SA to the top.

Funny that we count it "wasting a year" if they don't make a splash. Even without any earth-shattering moves (which they aren't in a position to make anyway), this team will still be good for mid-50s+ wins and dark horse contention.

I'm sure the FO has discussed the situation with Kawhi, LMA, Timmy, TP and Manu and has a plan going forward.

History tells us they have a plan and know exactly what they're doing.

[DPG21920]

Over 5mil that the franchise would give him to do nothing as an "executive" in the FO if he asked? I don't see it. I think opting in means he wants to play.



Funny that we count it "wasting a year" if they don't make a splash. Even without any earth-shattering moves (which they aren't in a position to make anyway), this team will still be good for mid-50s+ wins and dark horse contention.

I'm sure the FO has discussed the situation with Kawhi, LMA, Timmy, TP and Manu and has a plan going forward.

History tells us they have a plan and know exactly what they're doing.

I agree overall and I have been one of the most vocal on here about SA being close (which many disagree). Just offering players possible perspective.

Losing how they did, with TP/Tim hobbled and Manu not contributing in the playoffs, I can see how LMA might view that as wasting a year since his goal is to win a le. I can see how he and Kawhi (and fans, even if I don't personally agree) can see it as a waste if they think they didn't improve their chances.

[TheGoldStandard]

I just wonder how Kawhi/LMA feel about this if indeed SA doesn't improve and brings back the same squad but with several rookies?

I think if healthy (big if with TP/Manu/TD) SA is still a damn good team with the LMA/KL/DG core anchoring, but I can see that core being upset at the thought of wasting another year knowing they might not be good enough? Could create some problems.

SA front office in a weird spot right now with the old guard and doing right by them and the future. Luckily SA was damn good last year so people may think just some minor improvements (a young bench guy having a breakout year, KL getting better, Danny bouncing back, etc..) get SA to the top.

I just don't see KD going through this hoopla another season.. If he stays with OKC he's going to take a deal that will make sure that he gets paid but he's committing for a long haul. Which means cap space or not there isn't a whole lot of 2017 FA's that move the needle either especially with other teams having crazy cap space too..

I don't see what a difference a year could make to a potential pitch for a real game changer on the team.. just the fact that there money obligations won't be tied up.

[SpursFan86]

Luckily SA was damn good last year so people may think just some minor improvements (a young bench guy having a breakout year, KL getting better, Danny bouncing back, etc..) get SA to the top.

I wish I could get behind this, but it's pretty wishful thinking IMO. Even if Duncan/Manu both come back, they'll be another year older and likely worse than they were last year. If Duncan doesn't come back, we're going to be struggling to land a starting caliber center. Parker and Diaw both aren't young and will be 34 next season - it wouldn't be shocking if they suffered a bit of a decline.

Even if those things you mentioned do happen (Kawhi improves even more, DG bounces back, etc.), I think it's pretty unlikely that this team is good enough to win a le next year if the plan is to just bring the same team back but with some new end-of-the-bench guys. It would require a lot of things going right with the bench (KA becomes a legitimately solid rotation player, Bertans proves to be a capable NBA player and contributes, Boban steps forward and becomes a legitimate full-time backup C).

Guess we'll wait and see what happens this offseason though. Maybe they manage to land a solid ringchaser on a vet minimum deal or something.

[DPG21920]

I really, really hope this doesn't lead to Danny Green being traded or something if SA is pursuing players (either dumping him for cap space or getting players back).

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I agree overall and I have been one of the most vocal on here about SA being close (which many disagree). Just offering players possible perspective.

Losing how they did, with TP/Tim hobbled and Manu not contributing in the playoffs, I can see how LMA might view that as wasting a year since his goal is to win a le. I can see how he and Kawhi (and fans, even if I don't personally agree) can see it as a waste if they think they didn't improve their chances.

I see what you're saying, but these guys (Kawhi, LMA, etc) are adults, and I'm sure they see the limitations of this off-season. I'm sure the FO would have laid out its plan for them so they understand. Better to make a big splash in 2017 than an ineffective ripple in 2016.

As for LMA, if he's unhappy I'd be more than fine with trading him. I don't like his game much anyway, and we could get a lot for him.

[Kawhitstorm]

Disagree. Tim opting out & SA making the other moves (waiving non-guarantees and renouncing cap holds) gave the Spurs 20+M. They could have signed a 12-15M player, then given Tim the other 5M but in 2 year/10M (because he's renounced they would use the actual 5M in cap space they have).

How in the is that different than Tim opting in? It doesn't matter when Tim signs or in what order the other FAs sign if he's going to sign for basically the same amount after he's renounced.

PATFO can basically still free up 12-15m by making other move, Tim opting-in has no impact on it since his Bird Right is useless.

The only concern is if he thought there was any chance that SA would not pay him if he opted out which seems really unlikely. Or - he knows he's going to retire which then he gets the 5M which seems likely to me.

That would be the ultimate slap in the face to LMA who's going to be reduced to playing alongside a vet min center.

[TheGoldStandard]

I wish I could get behind this, but it's pretty wishful thinking IMO. Even if Duncan/Manu both come back, they'll be another year older and likely worse than they were last year. If Duncan doesn't come back, we're going to be struggling to land a starting caliber center. Parker and Diaw both aren't young and will be 34 next season - it wouldn't be shocking if they suffered a bit of a decline.

Even if those things you mentioned do happen (Kawhi improves even more, DG bounces back, etc.), I think it's pretty unlikely that this team is good enough to win a le next year if the plan is to just bring the same team back but with some new end-of-the-bench guys. It would require a lot of things going right with the bench (KA becomes a legitimately solid rotation player, Bertans proves to be a capable NBA player and contributes, Boban steps forward and becomes a legitimate full-time backup C).

Guess we'll wait and see what happens this offseason though. Maybe they manage to land a solid ringchaser on a vet minimum deal or something.

Get ready for Olapido torching Tony and what else can the Spurs do? throw patty Mills at him? lol..

[raybies]

At this point, my line-up that i would like to see all things considered, and that's with the likely scenario that Durant is not coming:

Parker/Mills/Murray
Green/Ginobili/Simmons
Leonard/Anderson/Bertans
Aldridge/Diaw/LJC
Pau/Duncan/Milutinov

If we sign Durant though:
Parker/Arcidiacono or Forbes/Murray
Leonard/Manu/Simmons
Durant/Anderson/Bertans
Aldridge/West/LJC
Duncan/Milutinov/LaLanne or Ndoye

I'll start from the PG and work my way down. First off, I chose Arcidiacono cause he is a four year player that just lead his team to a championship. There won't be too many mistakes from him and he'll be cheap. Granted I got to see him play summer league first but if he just plays solid and hits a majority of his open looks then that will be enough for his slot. You let him and Murray battle for the back up slot. Durant can play with the ball in his hands if he continues his shift that he had with OKC here, so you really just need a shooter like Arcidiacono or even Forbes if he surprises. Imo it's Ryan that will take the spot in this scenario.

SG- I think if we sign Durant, then Manu coming back on a minimum salary would be too good an opportunity to pass up but if he should retire a good alternative would be Jarret Jack. We'll be needing more playmakers and coming off an injury, he should be cheap. I'm not sure about Simmons. I would like to have another shooter like Forbes in a Gary Neal role but we'll see how he does in Summer League. I don't want to see him as an MVP but just as a role player doing things he would do with the varsity squad. Looking for leadership as others have stated, sound decision making, improved defensive techniques, and consistency knocking down the three. If he can be an energy boost off the bench as a third-stringer, I think he could make a career. Too low expectations?

SF - The question here is if we can afford Bertans. I doubt he takes the minimum when he makes more in Europe but his shooting would be greatly appealing and should prove very useful. He would definitely space the floor and if he could play in lineups like this in small ball, Arcidiacono or Forbes, Durant, Bertans, Leonard, and Aldridge, it should be a lineup of death.

PF - As i said with Manu, how can West pass up an opportunity like this. One more year with the guys, with the organization he admires, and another shot to win it all. He would have to accept the minimum but he would be in a great position. Maybe the Spurs offer a role in the FO if he plays one more year. Then you have LJC which most are really low on, but I think he's gonna have a positive career if he can just knock down the mid-range j. He already had a NBA trait in defense and rebounding so if he can clean up around the rim, block a few shots, and hit the occasional j he should prove quite serviceable.

C - Although I would like to see a more mobile center starting, Duncan almost assuredly comes back in this scenario. Having a guy like Milutinov off the bench who is mobile and roll after setting a screen would be a very versatile option. But our depth would be weak. Really weak. Here I listed, Lalanne and Ndoye as options but any have a minimum guy that is more versed in the league that could fill in here. Cady doesn't have the size I would like but he has a nice skill-set. As for Ndoye, he seems a year away from getting a shot. He's still pretty raw. If we are gonna go the really raw route and looking for size, I wouldn't mind giving Ibeh a shot. I know, Ibeh, but I haven't given up on him completely. I think he could be something special. He has elite physical tools. I have him a Ben Wallace ceiling. Ben wasn't drafted either but the difference is probably gonna be the motor and work ethic. Either way I just want to have Spurs name associated with him just to see the due diligence and know that they scouted him. Heck, the probably seen enough of him when he was at Texas, either way still got hope for him.

[Dex]

Tim Duncan can do whatever the Tim Duncan wants to do.

I hope he comes back...not ready for this ride to be over yet.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I wish I could get behind this, but it's pretty wishful thinking IMO. Even if Duncan/Manu both come back, they'll be another year older and likely worse than they were last year. If Duncan doesn't come back, we're going to be struggling to land a starting caliber center. Parker and Diaw both aren't young and will be 34 next season - it wouldn't be shocking if they suffered a bit of a decline.

Even if those things you mentioned do happen (Kawhi improves even more, DG bounces back, etc.), I think it's pretty unlikely that this team is good enough to win a le next year if the plan is to just bring the same team back but with some new end-of-the-bench guys. It would require a lot of things going right with the bench (KA becomes a legitimately solid rotation player, Bertans proves to be a capable NBA player and contributes, Boban steps forward and becomes a legitimate full-time backup C).

Guess we'll wait and see what happens this offseason though. Maybe they manage to land a solid ringchaser on a vet minimum deal or something.

What you say is fair, but if the ball bounces differently in a few plays at the end of games 2 and 5 we win that series 4-1 and face a banged up Dubs in the WCFs. We were literally a couple of bad luck plays away from winning that series. It won't take a whole lot to get back there.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I really, really hope this doesn't lead to Danny Green being traded or something if SA is pursuing players (either dumping him for cap space or getting players back).

Me too. He had a down year, but he's super-valuable on that reasonable contract, and I think he'll bounce back this year.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

At this point, my line-up that i would like to see all things considered, and that's with the likely scenario that Durant is not coming:

Parker/Mills/Murray
Green/Ginobili/Simmons
Leonard/Anderson/Bertans
Aldridge/Diaw/LJC
Pau/Duncan/Milutinov

Forget Durant. This looks like what the rost is shaping up to be, although probably Boban rather than Pau who we have no money to pay.

[SpursFan86]

What you say is fair, but if the ball bounces differently in a few plays at the end of games 2 and 5 we win that series 4-1 and face a banged up Dubs in the WCFs. We were literally a couple of bad luck plays away from winning that series. It won't take a whole lot to get back there.

That's true. But like I said, considering the age of so many key guys (Duncan, Manu, Parker, Diaw...that's half of the rotation potentially facing a decline), I don't think we'll be as good as we were last year if we just bring everyone back.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not steaming mad at the idea of PATFO standing pat and keeping everyone together. And I'm not saying they'd have no chance at all of winning a le. I just think it'd be a pretty big longshot. I certainly wouldn't feel too confident in our le chances.

I'd really like us to at least address one of the key issues from last year's team. The 3 biggest ones IMO were 1) lack of a playmaker/penetrator outside of Parker/Manu, both of whom are inconsistent, 2) lack of volume 3-point shooting, and 3) all of our bigs were immobile and struggled to guard the PnR.

[TheGoldStandard]

That's true. But like I said, considering the age of so many key guys (Duncan, Manu, Parker, Diaw...that's half of the rotation potentially facing a decline), I don't think we'll be as good as we were last year if we just bring everyone back.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not steaming mad at the idea of PATFO standing pat and keeping everyone together. And I'm not saying they'd have no chance at all of winning a le. I just think it'd be a pretty big longshot. I certainly wouldn't feel too confident in our le chances.

I'd really like us to at least address one of the key issues from last year's team. The 3 biggest ones IMO were 1) lack of a playmaker/penetrator outside of Parker/Manu, both of whom are inconsistent, 2) lack of volume 3-point shooting, and 3) all of our bigs were immobile and struggled to guard the PnR.

1. Kyle Anderson, 2. Kyle Anderson and Maybe Bertans and 3. Kyle Anderson

[DPG21920]

Chinook - so let's assume a few things:

1. Tim either plays or retires but gets paid and not stretched (so his money counts this year against cap only is what I'm saying)

2. Boris (or anyone not traded)

3. Spurs simply waive Simmons and renounce all others that they can cap holds (the entire list)

Where does that leave the Spurs salary wise including roster charges?

My math has that at about 82M total salaries/roster charges? That would give SA 12M in cap space (roughly) and the following players:

LMA
Kawhi
Danny
Tim
TP
Boris
Kyle
Mills

But no: Simmons, Boban, Bonner, Manu, Miller, West, Martin, LJC, Milu or Murray.

Obviously doesn't seem likely, but sound accurate? If they can trade Boris, that gets them to about 19M in cap space still, but still having to replace all the players they renounced. Which we know they have talked about bringing in Bertans, keeping Boban, obviously brining back Manu, etc..

Seems like no cap space is the route.

[Kawhitstorm]

Guess we'll wait and see what happens this offseason though. Maybe they manage to land a solid ringchaser on a vet minimum deal or something.

The only "solid" ring chaser vet is Deng but dude is going to get max offers this summer. Nene is a guy that could sign for the vet min but dude is D-Worst status on the boards.