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Sample size, significance criterion and effect magnitute are all factors that determine the statistical power.
Peaks
Regular Season
Manu: TS% .612, WS/48 .246, ORTG 118, PER 24.3
Boban: TS% .662, WS/48 .325, ORTG 130, PER 27.7
Playoffs
Manu: TS% .652, WS/48 .260, ORTG 124, PER 24.8
Boban: TS% .752, WS/48 .336, ORTG 137, PER 25.4
Advanced stats yo!
Sample size, significance criterion and effect magnitute are all factors that determine the statistical power.
Manu better in his prime. the 2005 Ginobili was a force in the league.
Manu, Parker fans putting just shooting stats to make Porker looks better...
Wow, this dude SASdynasty has to be the biggest Manu hater. Shame on you.
Just saying that your raw stats don't mean jack when Parker was awful in the final two games of that series.buh buh he hit a 3 and a layup,
Man you can put all the stats you like but we remember how sometimes Manu failed and sometimes Tony did, and Manu is considered a better player.
You can go around looking at stats and , but at the end of the day, make a poll, ask your friends, youŽll always lose, ask in USA or outside of the States and the opinions will vary, but the consensus will always be that Ginobili was a better more determinant player than Parker.
Not gonna argue with you anymore because this is not a discussion, you can make your case all you want, but you cannot control/influence people minds, so untill you do Manu is better than Tony.
lol TP using small sample size
That 29,3 PER in 2008-2009 was because he only played 5 games, and was first round exit (because Manu didn't play)
He led spurs nowhere
Also I love TP PER in 2014-2015
PER when Spurs got the ring.
PER NBA average : 15
Playoffs
TP
2002-2003 PER --> 11,9
2004-2005 PER --> 12
2006-2007 PER --> 18,7 (stat padding against a D-leaguer in the finals)
2013-2014 PER --> 15,8
Manu
2002-2003 PER --> 15 PER (rookie season)
2004-2005 PER --> 24,8 PER
2006-2007 PER --> 21,9 PER
2013-2014 PER --> 20,3 PER
Last edited by Diego20; 07-22-2016 at 11:03 AM.
Parker s owned again and again and again. Boring.
I do think many people whip out the "sample size" rebuttal without even knowing when it's applicable.
Posting raw stats to compare a guy that played his entire life as a starter, against a guy that came most of his career from the bench and has always been in minutes restriction.
What about advanced stats? A more valid tool to measure the actual impact of a player in the game.
We all know Manu has always been a better player than Tony, even now that he's 40 years old and has no bussiness still playing basketball. The benefits of being able to shoot, pass and have more than an inch of peripheral vision, tbh.
You have a wrong concept about outplaying, he had better stats only to lose the series because of his hero antics but how the having 2 more points justifies being backdoor swept and raped by Ibaka?
Because '08-'09 wasn't a "run", it was a single series against Dallas where the Spurs lost in the 1st round, largely because Manu was injured (only playoffs Manu missed in his career IIRC).
So that was a playoff series (again, not run), where Tony tried to take over. It's unfortunate, though not unexpected, that he couldn't get us over the hump that time either.
But I mean, 2012-2013 was clearly his best playoff run overall. Applies the same to Manu with 04-05: he didn't have peak numbers in every category then, but on the overall, that was his best playoff run.
BTW, you can argue about the stats or the numbers, but they're calculated for everyone the same... I mean, after all, when posting stats, everybody is more or less picking and choosing...
EDIT: Forgot to mention the bit about USG%.... that's really more influenced by the coach than the player. I'm sure Manu wanted to play more and have a larger role, but ultimately that decision always rests with Pop...
Last edited by ElNono; 07-22-2016 at 12:16 PM.
You can check here:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html
But basically from what I posted:
- TS%: True Shooting Percentage; the formula is PTS / (2 * TSA). True shooting percentage is a measure of shooting efficiency that takes into account field goals, 3-point field goals, and free throws.
- WS: Win Shares; an estimate of the number of wins contributed by a player. Please see the article Calculating Win Shares for more information.
- VORP: Value Over Replacement Player (available since the 1973-74 season in the NBA); a box score estimate of the points per 100 TEAM possessions that a player contributed above a replacement-level (-2.0) player, translated to an average team and prorated to an 82-game season. Multiply by 2.70 to convert to wins over replacement. Please see the article About Box Plus/Minus (BPM) for more information.
I think both of these comments are fair, tbh... That said, Tony also played with Prime Tim Duncan, he probably just didn't know how to take advantage of that as well, or Pop simply trusted vets more back then (like Kerr, Claxton, etc). Certainly a point of debate.
As far as the other one, I think there's two sides to that coin: he was unselfish enough to be a star and at the same time accept that the coach would only play him in the sparkplug role, sometimes off the bench, just for what was better for the team. And he embraced that. In that sense, I think, that's actually a plus for him.
There's a lot of way to 'lead'... I'm sure the stats don't reflect that Manu lead an extremely dominant bench, probably the best in the league, or that he played that finals with a microfracture in his leg... or that Kawhi really took it to Lebron in those Finals, and was clearly the best player...
Also, and this actually applies to Tony too, BTW, when he was being subbed out and Pop praised his leadership by recognizing that others were better than him for that series, and more important than his numbers... I thought that was very adult of Tony of what he said then too and should be lauded, tbh...
one issue with manu is his minutes had to be restricted to be effective
a regular starter is worth more because of that fact
I am glad spurs have BOTH
hot-dog eating contests------no contest
easily Manu, have you seen his advance HDE stats? On Lebron's level
My point exactly. Context matters. Those stats are great, but how great when you're a bench player who plays limited minutes against second units?
How many times do I have to answer the Claxton argument? The dude disnt even play much for a backup in that playoff run.
Yet, we don't win the ring that year without his contribution in the final game. Or Kerr's shooting barrage in the Dallas series. Or Tony's contribution in other series.
And that's with Prime Duncan. That's what a lot of people overlook. In the playoffs, taking advantage of matchups, and sometimes throwing a wrench here or there matchup-wise, do matter.
Tony was a good sport too. If you look at that Dallas game for example, he was cheering Kerr from the bench, and really being a good teammate. That's important too, and should be recognized.
Those Manu's stats are even better as a starter son. So pick another argument to fight the lost battle, tbh.
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