Page 2 of 15 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 368
  1. #26
    Veteran SuperCam's Avatar
    My Team
    Carolina Panthers
    Post Count
    4,464
    I agree that great quarterbacks can deal with poor O-lines. The Colts' O-line has always sucked and has always been a revolving door of injuries during Luck's time in Indy, and he's put up some impressive seasons in the past.

    Last year was rock bottom for their O-line, though. I don't think anyone would have looked good behind it. Luck had a torn abdominal, a lascerated spleen, separated his shoulder, and missed a large chunk of the season. Kind of hard to put up nice-looking stats from a stretcher.


    injures
    not andrew's fault
    teammates making him look bad

  2. #27
    Veteran SuperCam's Avatar
    My Team
    Carolina Panthers
    Post Count
    4,464
    Newton is a joke compared to Luck. He has always had a more stacked supporting cast than Luck, especially defensively. And are we supposed to pretend like hasn't been throwing to the likes of Steve Smith, Greg Olsen and Kelvin Benjamin his whole career? Even Devin Funchess started acting like somebody down the stretch of last season.With all the help he's had around him, here's the facts about 's "MVP" season:
    What is this gotry? andrew tannyhill's been throwing to TY Hilton and Reggie Wayne caliber WRs every year while Cam's best receiver last year was Ted Ginn ffs

  3. #28
    Veteran N0 LyF3 ScRuB's Avatar
    My Team
    Carolina Panthers
    Post Count
    10,789
    Really would like to see you back up that argument.

    2011- went 6-10 with 21 TD and 17 INT for 4,051 yards. Failed to reach the playoffs.
    2012- went 7-9 19 TD and 12 INT for 3,869 yards. Failed to reach the playoffs. Andrew Luck went 11-5 23 TD and 18 INT for 4,374 yards. Made Playoffs
    2013- went 12-4 24 TD and 13 INT for 3,379 yards. First round bye lost in divisional round. Andrew Luck went 11-5 23 TD 9 Int for 3,822 yards. Won wild card lost in divisional round.

    2014- went 7-8-1 18 TD and 12 INT for 3,127 yards. Won WC game and lost in divisional round Andrew Luck went 11-5 40 TD and 16 INT for 4,761 yards lost in AFCC

    2015 had a great year 15-1 35 TD and 10 INT for 3,837 yards. Lost in SB Luck missed 9 games with multiple injuries.

    So aside from 2015 when exactly has Newton been a better QB than Andrew Luck? Luck has done more with much less and I don't know how anyone can argue that.
    Cam Newton started out on a 2-14 team that had no receivers, running game, or defense, unlike Luck who joined a playoff powerhouse before the best QB in the game ed his neck up. Cam was better in 2013, playing in a tougher division, he won 13 out of his last 14 games, and had a playoff bye. If you put rushing into the consideration, the stats are not even close. Without rushing, Newton had a better year passing and had better efficiency.

    This whole "more with less" thing is most laughable. In the past four years, Newton was hit more than 2x the next most hit QB. His receiving core has consisted of Steve Smith, Kelvin Benjamin, Ted Ginn Jr, Devin Funchess, and Brandon Lafell throughout his career. His MVP season his top three weapons were Greg Olsen, Ted Ginn Jr and Philly Brown. What Newton did last year was more impressive than anything Luck has ever done.

  4. #29
    Veteran N0 LyF3 ScRuB's Avatar
    My Team
    Carolina Panthers
    Post Count
    10,789
    Newton is a joke compared to Luck. He has always had a more stacked supporting cast than Luck, especially defensively. And are we supposed to pretend like hasn't been throwing to the likes of Steve Smith, Greg Olsen and Kelvin Benjamin his whole career? Even Devin Funchess started acting like somebody down the stretch of last season.

    With all the help he's had around him, here's the facts about 's "MVP" season:


    • The Panthers had the easiest schedule in the NFL according to Football Outsiders. Their opponents had an average DVOA of -8.6%. 's stats were inflated against piss-poor compe ion.
    • The Falcons, Saints and Bucs were 26th, 28th, and 21st in DVOA respectively last season. The Panthers were a good team in a horrible division.
    • Somehow, the Panthers still managed to lose to one of those teams. The Falcons rushed 5 all game and exposed 's utter inability to play under pressure. 's passer rating dropped more than 40 points on average under pressure. If he didn't get the luxury of frolicking through a cupcake schedule last year, he'd have been exposed bigtime.
    • Even against that weak schedule, still had eight games last year where he put up a passer rating under 80. That's Nick Foles/Teddy Bridgewater territory. And many of those performances came against awful teams like the Bucs, Jaguars and Cowboys.
    • Traditionally, MVP-winning quarterbacks rank in the top 3 in DYAR, a stat that takes every play a quarterback makes in a season, adjusts for the opposing defenses, and compares it to what a replacement-level player would put up. Newton was 11th last year - trailing guys like Andy Dalton, Kirk Cousins and Jay Cutler, and only a couple spots ahead of Ryan Fitzpatrick and Alex Smith.


    Keep in mind that last season is 's BEST year as a quarterback, his "breakout season" where he "matured" and blossomed into a true MVP - and it was still totally unimpressive. Carson Palmer, you the real MVP.

    Meanwhile, Luck had the season from , with an inept coaching staff, terrible offensive line, and only getting to play in 7 games last year due to several severe injuries.

    Remind me again why deserves to be crowned the superior quarterback based on one fluky, overrated season?
    Your "weak schedule" point is moot when you put into consideration they stomped the Seahawks twice, beat the Packers blue, dominated the Cardinals and beat other playoff teams such as the Texans, Redskins, etc. They also played teams that were in the playoff picture the year before, such as the Colts, Eagles, Giants, etc.

    Your entire argument is based off statistics without any context. Which is why, of course, your opinion is moot. It's also why you didn't show up the four months the season was going on last year like a cuck.

    Cam Newton was the first QB in history to break 35/10. In the redzone he threw 24 touchdowns, 0 interceptions ( Luck) and ran for 9 touchdowns.

    It's so cute to see you gots using a bad offensive line, injuries, etc. but fail to recognize the same issues that plagued Newton, namely last year.

    The best part is last year was just the beginning. Carolina is very young and lost virtually no pieces. Newton will dominate for years to come.

  5. #30
    Veteran SanAntonioSpurs23's Avatar
    My Team
    Indianapolis Colts
    Post Count
    6,145
    What is this gotry? andrew tannyhill's been throwing to TY Hilton and Reggie Wayne caliber WRs every year while Cam's best receiver last year was Ted Ginn ffs
    What about s elite defense and superior running game. Not to mention a top 5 TE in Olsen. Quit trying to act like has been doing it alone.

  6. #31
    Veteran SanAntonioSpurs23's Avatar
    My Team
    Indianapolis Colts
    Post Count
    6,145
    Cam Newton started out on a 2-14 team that had no receivers, running game, or defense, unlike Luck who joined a playoff powerhouse before the best QB in the game ed his neck up. Cam was better in 2013, playing in a tougher division, he won 13 out of his last 14 games, and had a playoff bye. If you put rushing into the consideration, the stats are not even close. Without rushing, Newton had a better year passing and had better efficiency.

    This whole "more with less" thing is most laughable. In the past four years, Newton was hit more than 2x the next most hit QB. His receiving core has consisted of Steve Smith, Kelvin Benjamin, Ted Ginn Jr, Devin Funchess, and Brandon Lafell throughout his career. His MVP season his top three weapons were Greg Olsen, Ted Ginn Jr and Philly Brown. What Newton did last year was more impressive than anything Luck has ever done.
    "Playoff powerhouse" . You literally have no idea what you are talking about. Luck took over a 2-14 team as well. The "playoff powerhouse" you refer to was completely gutted before Luck got there. The only remaining Colts from Mannings 2010 team that were around in 2012 were Mathis, Freeney, Punter Pat Mcafee, Adam Vinateri and Reggie Wayne. Even the GM and coaching staff was replaced. When Andrew took over he had a rookie at every skill position on offense except for WR1.

    Its also funny how the only argument you have for Cam having a better year than Luck is 2013. Yet Luck still finished with more yards, only 1 less TD less Interceptions, and 2 less rushing TDS. More efficient? They had the same passer rating and Cam was at 61% completion rating while luck was at 60% and had 100 more attempts and 50 more completions.

    So what exactly do Luck and the Colts have roster wise that isn't inferior to the Panthers? WR's you can make an argument for but it's really not that much better. O-Line? Running backs? Defense? I'm legitimately curious....

  7. #32
    Veteran SanAntonioSpurs23's Avatar
    My Team
    Indianapolis Colts
    Post Count
    6,145
    What is this gotry? andrew tannyhill's been throwing to TY Hilton and Reggie Wayne caliber WRs every year while Cam's best receiver last year was Ted Ginn ffs
    Reggie Wayne was on the decline when Luck got there. By late 2013 he was pretty much done. TY has been solid since his rookie season and Moncrief is just now emerging but other than that? Hakeem Nicks, Austin Collie, Da'Rick Rogers, Lavon Brazill, Andre Johnson, and Donnie Avery haven't been anything special.

    Vick Ballard, Trent ing Richardson, and Ahmad Bradshaw is really all I have to say when it comes to RBs. Indy hasn't had a 100 yard rusher in 4 years..... Think about that, Andrew Luck has never had a RB to be able to control the game from the ground.

  8. #33
    Board Man Comes Home Clipper Nation's Avatar
    Post Count
    54,257
    Did you really think people were going to overlook the obviousness of you not including rushing TDs at all
    Gimmick touchdowns are irrelevant when comparing quarterbacks. The QB's primary job is to pass the ball, and Luck has always been better at that than . That's why Luck is a franchise QB and is just the black Tebow.

    What is this gotry? andrew tannyhill's been throwing to TY Hilton and Reggie Wayne caliber WRs every year while Cam's best receiver last year was Ted Ginn ffs
    As I already mentioned, Devin Funchess became a very solid receiving threat in the second half of last season, and he was only a rookie. has also had the luxury of throwing to guys like Greg Olsen, Steve Smith, and Kelvin Benjamin.

    Meanwhile, other than Hilton and a washed-up Reggie Wayne, Luck has been throwing to... Griff Whalen? Coby Fleener? The corpse of Andre Johnson?

    Your "weak schedule" point is moot when you put into consideration they stomped the Seahawks twice, beat the Packers blue, dominated the Cardinals and beat other playoff teams such as the Texans, Redskins, etc. They also played teams that were in the playoff picture the year before, such as the Colts, Eagles, Giants, etc.
    My "weak schedule" point is not moot. It's a statistical fact. The Panthers played four playoff teams in the regular season, and none of them were elite. They also feasted on the weakest division in football.

    Your entire argument is based off statistics without any context. Which is why, of course, your opinion is moot. It's also why you didn't show up the four months the season was going on last year like a cuck.
    I gave plenty of context. You just ignored it.

    I was here all last season, pointing out how Newton is overrated. Meanwhile, you went into hiding for months after your boy choked the Super Bowl away.

    Cam Newton was the first QB in history to break 35/10. In the redzone he threw 24 touchdowns, 0 interceptions ( Luck) and ran for 9 touchdowns.
    And here, ironically, you've left out the context that he was padding his stats against a high school schedule.

    It's so cute to see you gots using a bad offensive line, injuries, etc. but fail to recognize the same issues that plagued Newton, namely last year.
    The Panthers had the second-best offensive line in the entire league last year

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro...s-this-season/

    The Panthers were also the sixth least-injured team in football.



    Quit pretending you're a Panthers fan and just admit that you're a player fan. You don't know about your own team.

    The best part is last year was just the beginning. Carolina is very young and lost virtually no pieces. Newton will dominate for years to come.
    The Panthers were the second-oldest team in the NFL last year, with an average age of 26.89:

    http://www.phillyvoice.com/ranking-nfl-teams-age/

    Again, you have no clue what you're talking about.

  9. #34
    Veteran SuperCam's Avatar
    My Team
    Carolina Panthers
    Post Count
    4,464
    Gimmick touchdowns? A touchdown is 6 points either way moron And Cam has a higher career completion percentage than Luck and a better QB rating as well so he's throwing it better too

    Thanks for the reminder that Cam took a 2nd round rookie WR and made him serviceable last season, great job Cam

    AFC South teams not named Indy won 17 games last season. NFC south teams not named Carolina won 21 games last season. Year before that NFC South's other teams won more than the AFC south other teams. And the year before that. And the year before that. So every year that Luck has been in the league

    Andrew .500 career record outside of division
    https://fansided.com/2016/06/29/5-re...-move-colts/4/



    White QB ranking, tbh:

    1. Tom
    2. Big rape
    3. Gayrodg
    4. Brees
    5. Palmer
    6. Romo
    7. Rivers
    8. Eli
    9. Ryan
    10. Carr


    Ryan and Andrew tannyhill not in top 10

  10. #35
    Veteran Raven's Avatar
    My Team
    New England Patriots
    Post Count
    17,080
    Cam Newton is a better QB than Andrew Luck so far. I don't know how you can argue any different. Luck has had one good season. Cam has better stats and has made it further in the playoffs, and without a real #1 receiver.
    ok bro

  11. #36
    Board Man Comes Home Clipper Nation's Avatar
    Post Count
    54,257
    Gimmick touchdowns? A touchdown is 6 points either way moron
    Run-first quarterbacks are gimmicks. There's a reason why traditional pocket passers win the overwhelming majority of championships in the NFL. It's one thing to run around and dive head-first into the end zone in garbage time against a terrible team, but the great dual-threat quarterbacks can beat you with their arm even when you take their scrambling threat away. As we found out in the Super Bowl this year, still can't do that.

    And Cam has a higher career completion percentage than Luck and a better QB rating as well so he's throwing it better too
    As has already been explained countless times, has had better receivers around him the entire time. Additionally, has had the benefit of one more year in the league to compile stats than Luck, and also benefited from Luck getting injured and only being able to play 7 games last year.

    Thanks for the reminder that Cam took a 2nd round rookie WR and made him serviceable last season, great job Cam
    Eight games with sub-80 passer ratings, mostly against teams, says that isn't making anyone better. So does a worse DYAR than the likes of Jay Cutler and Kirk Cousins. Funchess improved in spite of his quarterback.

    AFC South teams not named Indy won 17 games last season. NFC south teams not named Carolina won 21 games last season.
    The NFC South got to play the atrocious NFC East last year. (That explains why Atlanta got off to that fluky 5-0 start - four of those games were against the NFC Least.) The AFC South didn't get the benefit of playing those creampuffs on top of their atrocious division schedule.

    The NFC South and the AFC South also got to play each other last year. The NFC South went 10-6. Take the Panthers out of the equation and it's an even 6-6. So you can't really say that 's divisional opponents were any better than Luck's based on head-to-head wins and losses.

    That's where advanced stats like DVOA need to be used to make a better comparison. According to DVOA, Houston (18th) was better than anyone other than Carolina in the AFC South, and Jacksonville (25th) was better than Atlanta and New Orleans.

    Finally, the Colts' strength of schedule was ranked 21st in the league by Football Outsiders' stats. Not amazing, but better than Carolina's, which brought up the rear as the league's easiest schedule.

    Andrew .500 career record outside of division
    https://fansided.com/2016/06/29/5-re...-move-colts/4/
    Going into last season, Newton had a losing record outside of his division. This is despite having more talent around him on both offense and defense than Luck has ever had. Fortunately for , he was gifted the league's weakest schedule and a stacked team to carry him last year while Luck missed most of the season.

  12. #37
    Believe.
    My Team
    Dallas Cowboys
    Post Count
    3,755
    Are you kidding me with that strength of schedule argument? The Colts get to play the Jags, Texans, and ans twice every year. Wouldn't exactly call that murderer's row.

  13. #38
    Veteran N0 LyF3 ScRuB's Avatar
    My Team
    Carolina Panthers
    Post Count
    10,789
    Are you kidding me with that strength of schedule argument? The Colts get to play the Jags, Texans, and ans twice every year. Wouldn't exactly call that murderer's row.
    He is desperately grasping for straws. "Gimmick touchdowns", "sixth best squad with injuries" - just stop

  14. #39
    Board Man Comes Home Clipper Nation's Avatar
    Post Count
    54,257
    Are you kidding me with that strength of schedule argument? The Colts get to play the Jags, Texans, and ans twice every year. Wouldn't exactly call that murderer's row.
    The Falcons, Saints and Bucs aren't exactly a murderer's row anymore either, now that all three of them have gone back to their historical suckitude. Couple that with getting to play the equally horrendous NFC East, as well as the same AFC South that you're mocking, and it's not a surprise that the Panthers had a very inflated record last year.

    Plus, the Colts had to face the Patriots, Broncos, and Steelers in the regular season last year. That is a murderer's row. And they had to do it with either a severely banged-up Luck or a 40-year-old Matt Hasselbeck under center. The Panthers faced no such challenges in the regular season.

    Face it, the Panthers played a creampuff schedule. Newton padded his stats against scrubs and got exposed in the Super Bowl that his defense carried him to.
    Last edited by Clipper Nation; 08-16-2016 at 09:02 AM.

  15. #40
    Board Man Comes Home Clipper Nation's Avatar
    Post Count
    54,257
    He is desperately grasping for straws. "Gimmick touchdowns", "sixth best squad with injuries" - just stop
    You're the one who actually tried to play the injury card for Newton when the Panthers were one of the healthiest teams in the league last year. That's the textbook definition of grasping for straws.

  16. #41
    Board Man Comes Home Clipper Nation's Avatar
    Post Count
    54,257
    "He just hasn't faced nobody," cornerback Chris Harris Jr. said. "We looked at their schedule. They played the AFC South. They played the, what conference are they in? I don't know what division they're in."

    The NFC South.

    "They haven't played nobody man," Harris continued. "So you look at the schedule and we're the first dogs they've played."

    Chris

    "Everybody was talking Carolina this, Carolina that," Marshall said. "They haven't played a defense like us."

    Brandon

  17. #42
    Believe.
    My Team
    Dallas Cowboys
    Post Count
    3,755
    Luck is over rated. Go ahead and keep hitching your wagon to the guy with worse playoff stats than Mark Sanchez. I'll take Cam's MVP and success and say he's had the better career so far.

  18. #43
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
    Post Count
    76,206
    Reports out of camp that Luck is not looking too great either. Will be interesting to say the least.

  19. #44
    Board Man Comes Home Clipper Nation's Avatar
    Post Count
    54,257
    Luck is over rated. Go ahead and keep hitching your wagon to the guy with worse playoff stats than Mark Sanchez. I'll take Cam's MVP and success and say he's had the better career so far.
    I'm not "hitching my wagon" to anyone. I'm just not going to suck a game manager off for having a fluke season against cupcakes.

  20. #45
    A neverending cycle Trainwreck2100's Avatar
    My Team
    Dallas Cowboys
    Post Count
    40,646
    I'm not "hitching my wagon" to anyone. I'm just not going to suck a game manager off for having a fluke season against cupcakes.
    played in the tiest division in the nfc and matched up against the tiest conference in the afc.

  21. #46
    Believe.
    My Team
    Dallas Cowboys
    Post Count
    3,755
    keep making excuses. Strength of schedule doesn't mean as much in the NFL as it does in other sports, there's only 16 games. Even the Patriots somehow manage to lose one to the Bills every year. All you're telling me is that he beats the teams he's supposed to beat.

  22. #47
    Veteran SanAntonioSpurs23's Avatar
    My Team
    Indianapolis Colts
    Post Count
    6,145
    Reports out of camp that Luck is not looking too great either. Will be interesting to say the least.
    Not sure what camp you have been following, but despite some early rust Luck has played well in Anderson.

    Luck looked pretty Damn good in his first pre season game last night as well. It helps that the O-line was giving him a clean pocket for once.

  23. #48
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
    My Team
    Oakland Raiders
    Post Count
    96,026
    Not sure what camp you have been following, but despite some early rust Luck has played well in Anderson.

    Luck looked pretty Damn good in his first pre season game last night as well. It helps that the O-line was giving him a clean pocket for once.
    rotoworld has given periodic updates/blurbs, and they've called his camp "uneven" and "underwhelming" in separate posts

  24. #49
    Board Man Comes Home Clipper Nation's Avatar
    Post Count
    54,257
    keep making excuses. Strength of schedule doesn't mean as much in the NFL as it does in other sports, there's only 16 games. Even the Patriots somehow manage to lose one to the Bills every year. All you're telling me is that he beats the teams he's supposed to beat.
    I'm not even talking about wins and losses. That Panthers team was stacked, of course they were going to win lots of games. I'm talking about individual performance.

    The reality is, Newton padded his stats against nobodies last year on a stacked team, and he still got exposed under pressure against Atlanta and Denver. He's spent the rest of his career as a mediocre game manager. You can feel free to take his fluke season last year (which wasn't even that impressive in context) as an indication of what's to come. I'm personally chalking it up to an outlier until proven otherwise.

    If I see Newton beating teams with his arm and his brain this year, I'll gladly admit that I'm wrong and that he's a franchise QB. If he continues to rely on gimmicks and athleticism like he has his entire career, his fluffers will have to eat crow.

  25. #50
    Believe.
    My Team
    Dallas Cowboys
    Post Count
    3,755
    If he gets exposed, ill gladly admit that i was too high on him. I just don't see it happening. You make some good points though. And i get the feeling that Luck is about to make me look foolish with my criticisms.

    Good CN. Unlike others, you can back up your takes.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •