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  1. #1
    Veteran Fabbs's Avatar
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    In watching Mike Trouty Trout go for his second 30/30 Club season, got me to looking at the list.
    Bobby Bonds (the father, not to be confused with son Barroid Bonds) is the most impressive 30/30 with 4 straight years and 5 out of 6.

    40/40 Club
    Only 4 players, 3 of which are All Time Steroid Ingesters Hall of Fame.
    Jose Conseco 1988
    Barroid Bonds 1996
    Alex Rodriguez 1998
    Alfonso Soriano 2006

    Was Soriano also heavily suspected of PEDs in '96? If so, that makes it an easy 4-0 sweep.

  2. #2
    non-essential Chris's Avatar
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    Don't forget Sosa he was juicing hard. I think Soriana is off the hook since I've never heard his name mentioned in the same breath as these other guys.

  3. #3
    Veteran Fabbs's Avatar
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    Sosa never really got close. He did have a couple 30/30s but of course he is off the list too.

    Those 4 above are the only ones, and we know 3 of them don't count.
    That would make Soriano the only 40/40 in the history of MLB if he was not on roids.

  4. #4
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone thought Bonds was juicing in 1996.

    By most accounts, Bonds went to the juice only after Sosa/McGwire got so much love in 1998 for their home run chase:

    Bonds was great -- the greatest -- except for the red herring of performance-enhancing drugs. While no one has ever quantified the effect PEDs have had on the players who have taken them, it's impossible to deny that Bonds took them. He even admitted he took them (sort of). To what extent Bonds used them is an open question, though if sworn testimony of those who know him is true, he started after the 1998 season.
    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/do...ped-su ion/

  5. #5
    Manu Mania lefty20's Avatar
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    I don't think Soriano's power ever came from roids. It was simply a combination of an enormous bat(literally one of the biggest in mlb, iirc) and a big(inconsistent) swing. Trust me there was nothing more frustrating than watching that man try to pull a slider that's breaking down and away.... over and over again.

  6. #6
    ex Hornets78 Pelicans78's Avatar
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    In watching Mike Trouty Trout go for his second 30/30 Club season, got me to looking at the list.
    Bobby Bonds (the father, not to be confused with son Barroid Bonds) is the most impressive 30/30 with 4 straight years and 5 out of 6.

    40/40 Club
    Only 4 players, 3 of which are All Time Steroid Ingesters Hall of Fame.
    Jose Conseco 1988
    Barroid Bonds 1996
    Alex Rodriguez 1998
    Alfonso Soriano 2006

    Was Soriano also heavily suspected of PEDs in '96? If so, that makes it an easy 4-0 sweep.
    You mean 2006? But there hasn't been any su ion of him doping.

  7. #7
    Veteran Fabbs's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone thought Bonds was juicing in 1996.

    By most accounts, Bonds went to the juice only after Sosa/McGwire got so much love in 1998 for their home run chase:



    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/do...ped-su ion/
    1996: Just because no media was hot on the Bond-on-steroids-or-not does not mean Bonds had not started roids.
    I can see it being entirely possible that he started roids in 96 or earlier and simply kicked it up 10 notches later.

    Sworn testimony true? That whole circus had virtually nothing to do with the truth and heavy on lying. About the only truthful person was Canseco and he was demonized.

  8. #8
    Veteran Fabbs's Avatar
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    You mean 2006? But there hasn't been any su ion of him doping.
    Yes 2006.

  9. #9
    Veteran Fabbs's Avatar
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    I don't think Soriano's power ever came from roids. It was simply a combination of an enormous bat(literally one of the biggest in mlb, iirc) and a big(inconsistent) swing. Trust me there was nothing more frustrating than watching that man try to pull a slider that's breaking down and away.... over and over again.
    All we can do at this point in time is speculate.
    If Soriano was not on roids, he would be the 1st person in MLB history to pull off a natural 40/40.
    Another big swinger with big bat in Vlad Guerrero came 1 HR away. Altho I think it's entirely possible Guerrero did roids too.
    Last edited by Fabbs; 09-29-2016 at 07:49 AM.

  10. #10
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    1996: Just because no media was hot on the Bond-on-steroids-or-not does not mean Bonds had not started roids.
    I can see it being entirely possible that he started roids in 96 or earlier and simply kicked it up 10 notches later.

    Sworn testimony true? That whole circus had virtually nothing to do with the truth and heavy on lying. About the only truthful person was Canseco and he was demonized.
    Okay. So you suspect something that you cannot possibly prove but you're more willing to stick with your unsubstantiated su ion than sworn testimony? Got it. Bonds in 1996 wasn't suspected of anything; he was the best player in baseball at that point in time and deservedly so. Bonds is an a-hole and screwed himself by going to the juice after 1998, but from his call-up through the 1998 season, he was the best baseball player I've seen in my lifetime. You can believe otherwise if you wish; as is always true of your arguments when you've chosen not to like someone, you can't credit and respect their successes and you can only bother to try dismiss their accomplishments, usually without any actual facts to support your efforts.

    Done here. I know where this nonsense is going.
    Last edited by FromWayDowntown; 09-29-2016 at 08:58 AM. Reason: added the last part

  11. #11
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    All we can do at this point in time is speculate.
    If Soriano was not on roids, he would be the 1st person in MLB history to pull off a natural 40/40.
    Another big swinger with big bat in Vlad Guerrero came 1 HR away. Altho I think it's entirely possible Guerrero did roids too.
    Other than 1996 Bonds, of course.

  12. #12
    Veteran Fabbs's Avatar
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    Done here. I know where this nonsense is going.
    Yep.
    Another straw.

  13. #13
    Veteran Fabbs's Avatar
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    You can believe otherwise if you wish; as is always true of your arguments when you've chosen not to like someone, you can't credit and respect their successes and you can only bother to try dismiss their accomplishments, usually without any actual facts to support your efforts.
    Love all your actual facts to prove Bonds was not on roids in 1996. But, because "no one" (according to you) suspected it, he must not have been.

    I'm more in the camp of he might have been, he might not have been. Certainly enough going on in MLB before and after 1996 to warrant reasonable su ion.

    Bonds was good with or without steroids, no doubt.
    Myself, I have Ken Griffey Jr. above him. I include defense.

  14. #14
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    Bonds was good with or without steroids, no doubt.
    Myself, I have Ken Griffey Jr. above him. I include defense.
    Bonds won 8 Gold Gloves

  15. #15
    Veteran Fabbs's Avatar
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    Bonds won 8 Gold Gloves
    And good for Bonds.
    But if you're saying Bonds had better D then Ken Griffey Jr, give me a hit of that.

  16. #16
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    And good for Bonds.
    But if you're saying Bonds had better D then Ken Griffey Jr, give me a hit of that.
    Griffey was a better outfielder but Bonds was also an elite outfielder & better at everything else so I don't know how you concluded that Griffey is better ALL-AROUND.

  17. #17
    Veteran Fabbs's Avatar
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    Griffey was a better outfielder but Bonds was also an elite outfielder & better at everything else so I don't know how you concluded that Griffey is better ALL-AROUND.
    Maybe it's since we know Barroid did PEDs and I think maybe Griffey did not, I consider Griffeys stats as credible.
    When it's entirely possible Griffey did roids also. And probably did. Look at Griffeys jump from '89-92 to '93-2000.

  18. #18
    CDs Nuts. resistanze's Avatar
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    Maybe it's since we know Barroid did PEDs and I think maybe Griffey did not, I consider Griffeys stats as credible.
    When it's entirely possible Griffey did roids also. And probably did. Look at Griffeys jump from '89-92 to '93-2000.
    There was basically no period in Griffey's career that he was a better player than Bonds, even if you wanna go back to the late 80s to mid 90s.

  19. #19
    Veteran Fabbs's Avatar
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    There was basically no period in Griffey's career that he was a better player than Bonds, even if you wanna go back to the late 80s to mid 90s.


    96 97 98 99

  20. #20
    CDs Nuts. resistanze's Avatar
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    1987-1991: Barry Bonds (37.3), Rickey Henderson (34.8), Wade Boggs (34.8), Cal Ripken (31.8), Will Clark (29.0)

    Get used to Bonds topping these lists: He’ll be No. 1 for the next 15 five-year groupings. While Bonds certainly had a breakthrough in 1990, his first MVP season, he was quietly a very good player before that. In 1987, he ranked as the 10th-best position player in the NL; in 1988, he ranked fifth; in 1989, he ranked third. He hit primarily leadoff those seasons, keeping his RBI totals low, but he still had the wide range of skills that he took to another level in 1990.

    ...

    1994-1998: Barry Bonds (42.6), Jeff Bagwell (37.4), Ken Griffey Jr. (35.3), Craig Biggio (32.7), Mike Piazza (31.9)

    Yes, Hall of Fame voters, Jeff Bagwell was awesome.

    1995-1999: Barry Bonds (40.2), Jeff Bagwell (36.2), Ken Griffey Jr. (33.5), Craig Biggio (33.1), Mike Piazza (32.2)


    My man Edgar Martinez checks in at sixth during this period.

    1996-2000: Barry Bonds (41.6), Alex Rodriguez (37.8), Jeff Bagwell (36.3), Ken Griffey Jr. (35.8), Mike Piazza (31.1)

    By Baseball-Reference WAR, A-Rod’s best season was 2000, his final year in Seattle, when he hit .316/.420/.606 with 41 home runs. When you factor in that he did that while (A) playing in Safeco Field, and (B) playing a good shortstop, it makes sense.

    http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/p...ball-a-history


  21. #21
    Veteran Fabbs's Avatar
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    1995-1999: Barry Bonds (40.2), Jeff Bagwell (36.2), Ken Griffey Jr. (33.5), Craig Biggio (33.1), Mike Piazza (32.2)


    My man Edgar Martinez checks in at sixth during this period.
    What is the number supposed to represent?
    So he uses WAR and that's it?

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