This team lacks a consistent second option

[coachmac87]

That is tied to minutes too.

If you want Gasol to be the third option then you'd have to not only sacrifice efficiency on offense, but you'd have to sacrifice defense as Dedmon would be demoted significantly in minutes played. All those players you mentioned as third options play over 30 minutes.

Well I'm also in the camp of Gasol coming off the bench...

IMO when it matters most come playoffs Gasol or LMA should be on the court at all times..playing along with Dedmond...Lee fill in spots with foul trouble etc.

[Kawhitstorm]

I wonder if Jeff Teague is available. Dude's been awful in Indy, and I think the Spurs actually have the contracts to make it work. Dude in the very least can do some of the things Tony used to be able to do.

Teague isn't going to move the needle as the future starting PG. Dude has the same "dribble, dribble" tendencies as Porker & he's a terrible defender. He can penetrate & shoot floaters better than your average PG but he's going to age terrible b/c his game is dependent on speed. He also wouldn't be a good fit w/ Kawhi b/c he's a mediocre 3 point shooter & likes to hog the ball.

He's being exposed in Indy playing on a team that runs an ISO offense where he's either playing off the ball or having to beat a defender 1-on-1 (not his game). He is struggling to get into the paint w/o those Horford/Millsap screens which used to create mismatches. Maybe he could run PnR w/ Softridge but that's about it as far as high quality stuff.

Darren Collison would be a better fit as he's a better shooter/finisher & could have been targeted as Patty's replacement if it wasn't for his DMV incident.

[sasaint]

Dude was torn between joining Spurs or Suns .. Repeat: this was dithering on the decision whether to play for/alongside Pop/TD/Kawhi/Manu or the joke of franchise Phoenix been for the past half decade. If that didn't raise a red flag for you from the beginning about his mentlity, nothing will.

I don't think he will be a Spur beyond this contract unless they make it back to the Finals..

Plenty of us were not in favor of the signing even before Phoenix emerged as a "serious" contender. This was, indeed, a serious red flag!

[Kawhitstorm]

No one said post play is dead. Just saying that the style of offense is very inefficient compared to perimeter initiated offense. If you force Gasol more looks in the post, it won't benefit anything except for Gasols' points per game. Won't benefit the team or wins.

I brought up and proved how inefficient Gasol has been for the past 2 years in the post, and Coachmacs' best response to that is he made the All-Star team last year.

Pau's best use is as a stretch 5 like the Cavs use Love, if teams put a small guy on him then he can post-up or pound them on the offensive glass.

Last season, Pau was getting most of his points via face-ups/PnP rather than post-ups. Teams used to put their 4s on him to limit his PnP & face-up drives but now he has to be guarded by 5s so he can get wide open jumpers at will unless someone like Draymond is playing the 5.

[Kawhitstorm]

Dude was torn between joining Spurs or Suns .. Repeat: this was dithering on the decision whether to play for/alongside Pop/TD/Kawhi/Manu or the joke of franchise Phoenix been for the past half decade. If that didn't raise a red flag for you from the beginning about his mentlity, nothing will..

Joe Johnson requested that the 62 win Suns not match his offer sheet from the Hawks b/c he wanted to be the "star player" on a lotto team.

[sasaint]

Joe Johnson requested that the 62 win Suns not match his offer sheet from the Hawks b/c he wanted to be the "star player" on a lotto team.

I have no idea where you get these anecdotes, but they are priceless! JJ -

[TD 21]

You're acting like Kawhi disappear like 2011 Finals LeBron in the past two postseason.

In 2015, Doc loaded up on him after Gm 3 & his teammates couldn't make an outside shot (see LeBron vs. Celtics, 2010)

Against OKC, he played Durant even until Gm 6 which got out of hand when Kawhi went to the bench & he outplayed WestBrick for the duration of the series.

Having more than one non-shooter especially guards/wings (Porker/Fat Head) are a terrible fit for point-forwards which is why LeBron shot 39% against the same Thibs defense Doc implements against Kawhi when Shumpert/Mozgov/Tristan were starting against the Bulls in the 2015 postseason. Durant left WestBrick/Roberson b/c he was tired of teams ignoring them to load up on him when he was isolating.

There is a reason GM LeBron agreed to take a chance on JR Smith who has made more 3s than anyone in HISTORY before turning 30 & didn't hesitate to ship out Wiggins for Love whom he forced into a Ryan Anderson role just like he forced Bosh into a Robert Horry role. He saw in the 2011 Finals that teams will load up by completely ignoring non-shooters which is when he forced Battier into playing PF & fell in love w/ Mike Miller.

No, I'm saying winning a championship and Finals MVP as the second best player on an ensemble cast is great, but since he's become the undisputed best player on the team, he's often been disappointing against the elite in the regular season and in the playoffs, hasn't had a single put the team on your back and win a game/series they otherwise wouldn't have performance.

Even Aldridge, who's never been anointed a top 10, let alone 2 player, had a single Trail Blazers team as good as the '15 and '16 Spurs and is supposedly "soft" and a "choker", has one of the those playoff series ('14 WCQF) on his resume.

Sure, the past 2 and the current Spurs were and are too flawed to win a championship, but you can stop pretending they're Iverson's 76ers, McGrady's Magic, Garnett's Timberwolves, etc. I don't expect him to pull an '03 Duncan, but if he's going to get almost all of the praise when they win, then he damn sure needs to get some of the blame when they lose.

[Robz4000]

No, I'm saying winning a championship and Finals MVP as the second best player on an ensemble cast is great, but since he's become the undisputed best player on the team, he's often been disappointing against the elite in the regular season and in the playoffs, hasn't had a single put the team on your back and win a game/series they otherwise wouldn't have performance.

Even Aldridge, who's never been anointed a top 10, let alone 2 player, had a single Trail Blazers team as good as the '15 and '16 Spurs and is supposedly "soft" and a "choker", has one of the those playoff series ('14 WCQF) on his resume.

Sure, the past 2 and the current Spurs were and are too flawed to win a championship, but you can stop pretending they're Iverson's 76ers, McGrady's Magic, Garnett's Timberwolves, etc. I don't expect him to pull an '03 Duncan, but if he's going to get almost all of the praise when they win, then he damn sure needs to get some of the blame when they lose.

Spurs don't win in 2014 without Kawhi taking over in Games 3-5. If not for Lebron cramping, Spurs go down 0-2; they looked like the inferior team at that point. Then Leonard broke out and the Spurs dominated from there. That counts as a "put the team on your back" performance.

[Chinook]

He's being exposed in Indy playing on a team that runs an ISO offense where he's either playing off the ball or having to beat a defender 1-on-1 (not his game). He is struggling to get into the paint w/o those Horford/Millsap screens which used to create mismatches. Maybe he could run PnR w/ Softridge but that's about it as far as high quality stuff.

I'd be all over a guy who depends on the PnR, honestly. It's not just LMA that would benefit. Dedmon and Lee would also look really good having a guy next to them who could get them good looks, and they can both him Teague score. Ignoring the pouting angle for a second, Teague/Green/Leonard/Aldridge/Dedmon would be a great unit on both ends, because you don't just have Kawhi either dominating the ball or waiting for someone else to iso. Teague would get screens and be able to kick to open shooters, both of whom would hopefully be elite, or dump it down to the other big. That's the kind of offense you can build around, especially infused with Kawhiso plays that are no longer as easy to defend since they aren't as regular.

It's becoming increasingly obvious that depending on Leonard to go one-on-one and then countering with post-ups is not that hard to defend if you have the bigs to take away the paint. I'd like them to have a completely different type of offense mixed in there in the very least to prevent coaches from gearing up too strongly against Kawhi.

[MaNu4Tres]

I'd be all over a guy who depends on the PnR, honestly. It's not just LMA that would benefit. Dedmon and Lee would also look really good having a guy next to them who could get them good looks, and they can both him Teague score. Ignoring the pouting angle for a second, Teague/Green/Leonard/Aldridge/Dedmon would be a great unit on both ends, because you don't just have Kawhi either dominating the ball or waiting for someone else to iso. Teague would get screens and be able to kick to open shooters, both of whom would hopefully be elite, or dump it down to the other big. That's the kind of offense you can build around, especially infused with Kawhiso plays that are no longer as easy to defend since they aren't as regular.

It's becoming increasingly obvious that depending on Leonard to go one-on-one and then countering with post-ups is not that hard to defend if you have the bigs to take away the paint. I'd like them to have a completely different type of offense mixed in there in the very least to prevent coaches from gearing up too strongly against Kawhi.

Teague for who?

Spurs were interested this past summer but were outbid by the Pacers.

[YGWHI]

No, I'm saying winning a championship and Finals MVP as the second best player on an ensemble cast is great, but since he's become the undisputed best player on the team, he's often been disappointing against the elite in the regular season

-Kawhi averaged 28 ppg against OKC last regular season

-He was the main reason why the Spurs won the home game against Cavs last season, on the road he was 7-15 .429 3P% 7-8 FTs 6 rbs 2 asts 24 points

-In the two wins against the Clippers last season, he averaged 19.5 ppg in .50 FG%, and he didn't play in the loss in L.A.

-Sure, one of his home-game against GSW wasn't pretty but he was the only Spur playing well at the Oracle last season in the two games there

I would say he looked really good against elite last season.

and in the playoffs, hasn't had a single put the team on your back and win a game/series they otherwise wouldn't have performance.

If you think that the Spurs would have won game 3 against OKC in last playoffs without Kawhi taking over...

And if they wouldn't have stopped feeding him in game 5, .57 FG% 26 points, if they wouldn't have called those two P&Rs between Parker (4-12) and LMA (6-21) instead of going with him, the series would have changed.

Kawhi has improved every year in the postseason, he was horrible in the last 2 games of 2015 playoffs but his last playoffs were way better.

Except for his 3P%, he increased every offensive stat from the regular season to playoffs, ppg, apg, 2P%...

[Chinook]

Teague for who?

Spurs were interested this past summer but were outbid by the Pacers.

It looks like the Pacers are having buyer's remorse, so I don't think it would take a ton to get him, or least it won't if he doesn't look significantly better by the deadline. Anyway, Jeff makes $8.8 Million this season. So it would take $5.8 Million in salary to match him. Provided that no one would take Parker off the team's hands, a package like Mills/Anderson/Murray or Mills/Dedmon would be the idea.

[YGWHI]

Teague for who?

Spurs were interested this past summer but were outbid by the Pacers.

Where is Parker in this scenario? He won't be traded...Does he come off the bench with Teague as starting PG? It doesn't sound very realistic.

[MaNu4Tres]

It looks like the Pacers are having buyer's remorse, so I don't think it would take a ton to get him, or least it won't if he doesn't look significantly better by the deadline. Anyway, Jeff makes $8.8 Million this season. So it would take $5.8 Million in salary to match him. Provided that no one would take Parker off the team's hands, a package like Mills/Anderson/Murray or Mills/Dedmon would be the idea.

Parker, Murray, Anderson for Teague, Lavoy Allen & Glenn Robinson II.

[sasaint]

It looks like the Pacers are having buyer's remorse, so I don't think it would take a ton to get him, or least it won't if he doesn't look significantly better by the deadline. Anyway, Jeff makes $8.8 Million this season. So it would take $5.8 Million in salary to match him. Provided that no one would take Parker off the team's hands, a package like Mills/Anderson/Murray or Mills/Dedmon would be the idea.

I concede that the season is young and the sample size small, but Deadman and Mills have been easily two of the Spurs' best performers. Yet you would be willing to part with both for Jeff Teague? And then what? What further moves would you propose to replace Deadman and get some rim protection? I think you would be moving a couple of core pieces for a player who doesn't really move the needle. In fact the Spurs would be left with a much bigger hole in our bigs rotation. I personally value Patty more than Teague, so I would be chagrined to see Pop make either of your proposed deals.

If I am PATFO, Mills and Deadman are two of a bare handful of players I would definitely like to hang on to. Maybe a young guy or two will emerge by season's end... If the Spurs make it to 50 wins this season, that will be a great accomplishment in the first season of the post-Duncan era.

[sasaint]

Parker, Murray, Anderson for Teague, Lavoy Allen & Glenn Robinson II.

I do not think Parker is tradeable without sweetening the deal with a pick for the other team to swallow that "poison pill." The other alternative is to trade him to some team that has its own "untradeable" player.

[SAGirl]

I do not think Parker is tradeable without sweetening the deal with a pick for the other team to swallow that "poison pill." The other alternative is to trade him to some team that has its own "untradeable" player.

I thought the same, completely unrealistic trade that wouldn't happen specially after RC swindled Larry Legend in the 2011 draft. Getting Teague would require a useful rotation piece. Tony with his league worst PG fame, worst Spur rotation player for the season so far showing is going to require a sweetener to move. It was easier to move Richard Jefferson I think... on top of that he's been with nagging injuries to start.

The way Tiago and Boris Diaw, Heck the way Dworst is looking would raise the hair in my back in trading with the Spurs for Tony!!! Soon as he goes to a different situation he's going to look.... I don't even have the words to say...

[sasaint]

I thought the same, completely unrealistic trade that wouldn't happen specially after RC swindled Larry Legend in the 2011 draft. Getting Teague would require a useful rotation piece. Tony with his league worst PG fame, worst Spur rotation player for the season so far showing is going to require a sweetener to move. It was easier to move Richard Jefferson I think... on top of that he's been with nagging injuries to start.

The way Tiago and Boris Diaw, Heck the way Dworst is looking would raise the hair in my back in trading with the Spurs for Tony!!! Soon as he goes to a different situation he's going to look.... I don't even have the words to say...

Trouble is the Spurs just don't have many rotational pieces...

[SAGirl]

Trouble is the Spurs just don't have many rotational pieces...

None that they can spare. I mean the can spare their HOF veterans, but not if you are Pop. He's paying top dollar for those guys.

I am completely deflated about Pau, personally. Much as you have gone on about your disappointment with LMA, I am about to start disliking Pau. Incredibly skilled offensive big yes, nice passer, good shooter, but he's a traffic cone on defense and it bothers me.... It's one of those things where it does bother. Maybe he wasn't the right way to go in the off season. I hope to be wrong. I have been happy to be wrong about Lee for example, but I don't see it with Pau, yet.

I won't say anything about the young players they are all in different stages of development and in very cheap contracts and some are very young still. Some look better than others but Pop has said they are work in progress so that's that. I expect more of the veterans and the guys who have gotten paid $.

[Chinook]

If I am PATFO, Mills and Deadman are two of a bare handful of players I would definitely like to hang on to. Maybe a young guy or two will emerge by season's end... If the Spurs make it to 50 wins this season, that will be a great accomplishment in the first season of the post-Duncan era.

You're not going to be able to acquire players by holding onto all the guys you like. Now you can say Mills is better than Teague and be safe in your opinion. But if the Spurs are going to make any moves to add to their rotation, they aren't doing it by having sixth and seventh men on expiring being untouchable.

If the Spurs only care about winning 50 games, they can move a good chunk of their rotation and be safe in that regard. They don't need LMA, Mills or Dedmon to be slightly above average, in my opinion.

[Chinook]

I do not think Parker is tradeable without sweetening the deal with a pick for the other team to swallow that "poison pill." The other alternative is to trade him to some team that has its own "untradeable" player.

I think they'll be a ton of horrible contracts in 2018. Right now, though, I don't think anyone really sees one. Maybe Miles Plumlee?

[sasaint]

None that they can spare. I mean the can spare their HOF veterans, but not if you are Pop. He's paying top dollar for those guys.

I am completely deflated about Pau, personally. Much as you have gone on about your disappointment with LMA, I am about to start disliking Pau. Incredibly skilled offensive big yes, nice passer, good shooter, but he's a traffic cone on defense and it bothers me.... It's one of those things where it does bother. Maybe he wasn't the right way to go in the off season. I hope to be wrong. I have been happy to be wrong about Lee for example, but I don't see it with Pau, yet.

I won't say anything about the young players they are all in different stages of development and in very cheap contracts and some are very young still. Some look better than others but Pop has said they are work in progress so that's that. I expect more of the veterans and the guys who have gotten paid $.

Spurs stayed WAAAY to late at the parade with Manu and Tony. One can only hope that Tony will do the honorable thing at season's end and retire. Frankly the roster only has a handful (well, 4) of guys that I definitely want to have beyond this season: Kawhi (obviously), Danny, Patty, Deadman. Maybe another one or two of the young guys can become a good rotational piece (not just a body in the rotation), but I have my doubts.

I honestly believe if PATFO hadn't become so enamored with LMA, the team could have made a "controlled descent" into playoff-but-not-championship-contender by adding a couple of very good rotational pieces the last two off-seasons and would now be prepared to be a serious contender again next season. (I know that is heresy to the "win TD one last ring" crowd, but it was the better organizational move.)

How do you spell "bridge"? Or maybe it's just a bridge of sighs...

[SAGirl]

You're not going to be able to acquire players by holding onto all the guys you like. Now you can say Mills is better than Teague and be safe in your opinion. But if the Spurs are going to make any moves to add to their rotation, they aren't doing it by having sixth and seventh men on expiring being untouchable.

If the Spurs only care about winning 50 games, they can move a good chunk of their rotation and be safe in that regard. They don't need LMA, Mills or Dedmon to be slightly above average, in my opinion.

Lol Spurs fan.... we all disagree. I'd move Pau myself lol...

Pop staying pat... forget about it.... maybe a marginal player waived to get some on useless like Reggie Williams and then KMart. Nothing useful.

[sasaint]

You're not going to be able to acquire players by holding onto all the guys you like. Now you can say Mills is better than Teague and be safe in your opinion. But if the Spurs are going to make any moves to add to their rotation, they aren't doing it by having sixth and seventh men on expiring being untouchable.

If the Spurs only care about winning 50 games, they can move a good chunk of their rotation and be safe in that regard. They don't need LMA, Mills or Dedmon to be slightly above average, in my opinion.

I said I prefer Patty to Jeff Teague. I didn't say he was untouchable. Heads-up that is a losing trade for me. Somebody other than Jeff Teague? Try me.

Without Deadman, the Spurs might as well lay out a welcome mat to the basket. Definitely below average with a big rotation of LMA/Pau/Lee/Kyle/Bertans How would you remedy that?

[sasaint]

Lol Spurs fan.... we all disagree. I'd move Pau myself lol...

Pop staying pat... forget about it.... maybe a marginal player waived to get some on useless like Reggie Williams and then KMart. Nothing useful.

Pau can't be moved until December - Chinook will know when. But I am not sure he has much value.