Is Kawhi Leonard the most overrated player in the league?

[313]

You mean dumb RC drafting CoJo over Buckets.
Could have snagged Kawhi and Buckets in the same night.

Kawhi would've been a good backup

[313]

Jimmy Butler has over-taken Kawhi in almost all meaningful advanced stat categories:

#2 ORTG (Kiwi not in top 20)
#2 Offensive win shares (Kiwi #10)
#5 Win Shares (Kiwi #8)
#1 Win shares per 48 (Kiwi #10)
#6 BPM (Kiwi #12)
#5 OBMP (Kiwi #11)
#7 VORP (Kiwi #10)


Kawhi not even in top 20 for Defensive rating or DBPM



Jimmy Buckets first team all NBA Kiwi now 3rd team.



Dumb Wolfs not trading Wiggincancer for Buckets when they had the chance

Kiwi exposed when he can't hide behind Tim

[313]

KAT dropped 47/18 tonight

what it must be like to have a true franchise player

[dabom]

Wolfettes.

[pgardn]

KL is on a team, not the Bulls or Timberwolves.

[cjw]

KAT dropped 47/18 tonight

what it must be like to have a true franchise player

All of that for a +7 in a home loss to the Knicks. Have you even seen the Wolves play? Those games are pickup games till crunchtime.

[YGWHI]

Jimmy Butler

Jimmy tonight .22 FG% and his team lost in Chicago against...Lakers.

I guess that every player can have bad games, right? Kawhi, too.

[YGWHI]

What people here need to realize is theres a huge difference between a great scorer ( Kawhi) and a great shot creator ( Not Kawhi).

I wonder who says that Kawhi is a great creator...He will never be one.

If he would be able to put 10 apg he would be better than LeBron and Kobe together. So no, it's pretty obvious Kawhi isn't a great playmaker.

But this thread is about people saying he isn't a scorer or an elite player. And he is.

[MaNu4Tres]

I wonder who says that Kawhi is a great creator...He will never be one.

If he would be that player he would be better than LeBron and Kobe together. So no, it's pretty obvious Kawhi isn't a great playmaker.

But this thread is about people saying he isn't a scorer, or an elite player. An he is one.

Weird how you deflected 90% of my post.

They type of scorer he is doesn't make teammates better. That's a problem moving forward if he's the lead dog when it comes to initiating offense and if you want this team to win another le.

He needs help, not more touches in PnRs. That's why this team will fail again with him having too big of a role offensively.

[YGWHI]

That's a problem moving forward if you want this team to win another le.

That wouldn't be a problem if this team would have a reliable and elite playmaker to help him. After all, he can't be the best in everything on this team.

Just let Kawhi to do what he know to do, score and defend. And bring a guard who can create for himself and others, who hard it can be?

[MaNu4Tres]

That wouldn't be a problem if this team would have a reliable and elite playmaker to help him. After all, he can't be the best in everything on this team.

Just let him to do what he know to do, score and defend. And bring a guard who can create for himself and others, who hard it can be?

Okay but it currently is a problem. And going to him more in PnRs only compounds it because the end result 90% of the time in that set is a contested shot for Kawhi or a reset. The other 10% of the time, he actually makes a pass for a decent shot or he finds a path to the rim because of a defensive mistake.

[YGWHI]

last season's Kawhi's 9-14 FG

Kawhi averaged 15 FGA last season and 21.2 ppg

In this season 17 FGA 24.6 ppg.

There is no excuse for his bad shooting nights but at some point of the season, he will overcome the slump.

[YGWHI]

Okay but it currently is a problem. And going to him more in PnRs only compounds it because the end result 90% of the time in that set is a contested shot for Kawhi or a reset. The other 10% of the time, he actually makes a pass for a decent shot or he finds a path to the rim because of a defensive mistake.

Pop almost eliminated Kawhi post-up game from the playbook, I guess the reasons were Pau's presence in the post, and the need to find an alternative for Parker/Manu being unplayable in big roles a whole season and playoffs.

Sadly, this team doesn't have more options.
Patty is really good but just like Kawhi, he's a scorer not a true creator. And LMA is the other player who has a high USG% but he's another scorer without great passing skills.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

I don't think he's overrated anymore. I think his overall level of play has dropped from that of a rank 3 or rank 4 player in the league to that of a rank 8 or rank 9 player in the league.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

I agree that if he had the playmaking skills of Lebron he'd be the best player in the league, even without his DPOY-level defense recovering from the mediocre level its been at for the past week or two.

If his DPOY-level defense resumes even with his shooting woes, he'll move back up to rank 5 or 6 in the league. If his super efficient offense comes back with his DPOY-level defense, he'll climb back to rank 3-4 in the league.

[Kawhitstorm]

Jimmy Butler has over-taken Kawhi in almost all meaningful advanced stat categories:

#2 ORTG (Kiwi not in top 20)
#2 Offensive win shares (Kiwi #10)
#5 Win Shares (Kiwi #8)
#1 Win shares per 48 (Kiwi #10)
#6 BPM (Kiwi #12)
#5 OBMP (Kiwi #11)
#7 VORP (Kiwi #10)

Butler has peaked early the past 2 seasons & started leaking after the ASG break while Kawhi has had the opposite trend.

[Kawhitstorm]

Not sure why Spurs' offense sputtering at home but there's this:
Kawhi on road: 25. 8 ppg, 50.6%
Kawhi at home: 23 ppg, 39.7%

Best road player in the league, he loves to play in a hostile environment & silence the crowd.....just like the Spurs fans at the AT&T center.

[dabom]

Duncan always elevated his game in the playoffs. Glad to see Kawhi got that edge going.

[YGWHI]

Best road player in the league, he loves to play in a hostile environment & silence the crowd.....just like the Spurs fans at the AT&T center.

I guess he doesn't find any motivation in playing at the AT&T Center, after all...he can't silence a muted crowd.

[TheGreatYacht]

Duncan always elevated his game in the playoffs. Glad to see Kawhi got that edge going.

Where are you getting that conclusion from? Matt Barnes and Andre Roberson?!?! Duncan would never

[TheGreatYacht]

Jimmy Butler has over-taken Kawhi in almost all meaningful advanced stat categories:

#2 ORTG (Kiwi not in top 20)
#2 Offensive win shares (Kiwi #10)
#5 Win Shares (Kiwi #8)
#1 Win shares per 48 (Kiwi #10)
#6 BPM (Kiwi #12)
#5 OBMP (Kiwi #11)
#7 VORP (Kiwi #10)


Kawhi not even in top 20 for Defensive rating or DBPM



Jimmy Buckets first team all NBA Kiwi now 3rd team.



Dumb Wolfs not trading Wiggincancer for Buckets when they had the chance

Kiwi exposed when he can't hide behind Tim

Meanwhile we have a bum trading buckets with Harrison Barnes smfh

[John Petrucci]

Meanwhile we have a bum trading buckets with Harrison Barnes smfh

Really surprised tbh. Looking like we might've really jumped the gun on this dude. I was completely convinced he was a top 3 player for a while. All that Mamba advice and instruction in the offseason must have screwed up the natural progression he was making with instruction from Chip and other more solid decision makers on the court.

Being that thoroughly outclassed by Jimmy Butler in advanced stats...ouch. Makes you appreciate TD that much more.

[TheGreatYacht]

Really surprised tbh. Looking like we might've really jumped the gun on this dude. I was completely convinced he was a top 3 player for a while.

Being that thoroughly outclassed by Jimmy Butler...ouch. Makes you appreciate TD that much more.

Tried telling people to stop comparing this guy to Jordan or they'll be greatly disappointed but they wouldn't listen smh. Hope he turns it around for the good of the team but damn.... he looks terrible on both ends

[Dre_7]

Really surprised tbh. Looking like we might've really jumped the gun on this dude. I was completely convinced he was a top 3 player for a while. All that Mamba advice and instruction in the offseason must have screwed up the natural progression he was making with instruction from Chip and other more solid decision makers on the court.

Being that thoroughly outclassed by Jimmy Butler in advanced stats...ouch. Makes you appreciate TD that much more.

Kobe didn't work with Kawhi in the offseason.

[John Petrucci]

Kobe didn't work with Kawhi in the offseason.

Well if he didn't he didn't I had just seen it said so many places I thought it was probably true. Didn't DMC say it in an interview? Doesn't matter right now anyway. It's just the increased load that the Spurs expect him to take on as the "go to" guy. I always figured he'd be much better in 2017 than this year. It's a tough adjustment. That's why I don't think we have any shot this year at doing much in the postseason.