Patty just don't spot up you stupid cuck.
Because the Spurs already have two guys off the bench who do that. They don't need a third, and indeed, I think it would hurt them to try. Barton is really a better Simmons. He's not a PG, and neither is Manu. Maybe they could swing a Simmons for Canaan trade.
So you value Mill's shooting more than having another (better) Simmons in Mills current role?
Paddy can spot up and create shots using a pick....... for himself
http://www.basketball-reference.com/..._id2=bartowi01
I don't think it's even obvious that Barton does the other things better than Mills. But yes, the bench needs shooters, so I don't want to add another guy who wants to drive instead. The Spurs have plenty of those types, especially the ones who aren't good enough at it to be second options.
I thought Murray actually has done well as the off ball/3rd banana when he has started with Kawhi and LA.
Yes, he's best with the ball in his hands, but he's also been very effective in his catch and shoot or catch and drive opportunities off the ball (he's versatile-- unlike Gary Neal, Patty Mills, Eddie House, Steve Kerr, ect) . Him as a secondary facilitator against a moving defense (when they are rotating or closing out off from the initial action developed from Kawhi/LA) actually has been effective thus far. His first step is so quick he gets in the paint with ease off the catch. Him attacking a moving defense actually enhances his effectiveness with the ball.
They value Mills' shooting so much that they not only want the Spurs to give him 44-50 million, but they want to impede Murrays growth by playing him at a position where his effectiveness or ceiling is lower.
economics, lets spend 50 million at a position they don't need to spend it on. 50 million on a 15 minute role instead of utilizing that money more efficiently in other areas -- like competent GMs usually do.
What you call Murray's position is irrelevant. He'll play with the best bench guard the Spurs have, as should any player. He's extremely likely to play next to a guy as big or smaller than him. If you want to call him a PG and Mills the SG, I don't care. It won't change his role any more than playing next to 6-3 Williams or Forbes would.
While their numbers look similar, if you watch them play, it's pretty clear to me at least that how Barton gets his assists vs how Mills gets his assists are really different. I think Barton is a better creator.
If you aren't confident in his 3 (I am, not as much as Mills, but enough) I can see it. But I think that if you believe he can be a solid enough shooter, that getting someone who has the ability to get into the paint and create, that has some length and athleticism and that can pitch in a little more on the boards is enough for me.
Plus, you get Barton on a cheap deal for one more year which is a big plus to me.
Nah because with Patty, Murray defends SGs. His size/length advantage, defensive ceiling and value (on the defensive end) disappears in this situation. Which, in turn, lowers his ceiling and at the same time, lowers the Spurs' ceiling or overall effectiveness.
I'm with DPG. Murray/ Barton is much more enticing than Mills/Murray. I look at both ends, not just one aspect of the game -- such as shooting.
Barton is pretty underrated here, he's basically a rich man Simmons. Barton does the things simmons does but at a higher level.
That being said, it's not even about Den leaning towards moving on from Barton. It's the fact that Denver will get better offers somehwere else.
Barton was a top 5 bench player last year.
Denver is a dumb team, so who knows but its very unlikely.
A logical approach is to just wait the season to end. Don't sign Mills, Have murray take all his minutes, don't sign Simmons for anything over 3/year
The spurs needs to be a position where they can sign match whatever offer Bertans and dedmon gets and still have room for another two years from now.
The money they get from letting Mills and Simmons walk can be signed for shooter. Bertans is more than tlready play as the bench gunner anyway..so that leaves mills as the odd man out.
Last edited by apalisoc_9; 02-10-2017 at 12:35 AM.
Barton is a just a much better Simmons: http://www.basketball-reference.com/..._id2=simmojo02
Mills is a much more dynamic shooter, and that's extremely needed on a team that has four wings and a PG who like the ball in their hands. If you look at the important skills, you see Mills is much better than Barton. If you want someone to dribble-drive, take out one of the dribble-drivers. The team is already having to face that they need Bertans to play for spacing issues. It would just be worse with Barton. Not a driving lane in sight.
I like the extra cheap year. But I would be willing to let Mills walk or hang in the wind for a bit over having Barton's contract guaranteed if I really cared about money.
Yeah, I'm pretty interested in getting Barton. I like his overall skill set better than Mills just being a better 3 point shooter. How much is he making? More importantly, how is Barton's defense?
Bertans signed a two-year deal. I don't know where the idea that it was a one-year came from. As far as I know, it was reported as two or three years the whole time.
Dedmon is a guy you try to keep but have to be willing to let walk. Just as with him, there are other guys out there. Withey will be a free agent again, for example.
I wouldn't trade the 29th pick for Barton though. I like Will Barton, but I want to put money on Murray as a ball handler and an off ball kinda guy. He's shown the ability to play off kawhi and Aldridge and still contribute significantly with his Drive Gravity.
Keep the Good and cheap players so San Antonio can afford an expensive star when Aldridge declines even more or signs elsewgere in 2018
Over 70% of Mills FG's are assisted. He really does spot up a lot. Or just runs off screens to get an open look of someone passing to him. It's not bad, it's just who he is.Patty just don't spot up you stupid cuck.
Barton by contrast is only assisted on 47% of his FG.
Barton can shoot too though. That's what people are missing here. Barton and Murray are both more versatile than Patty, not just on defensive ( which is obvious), but on offense as well.
I said two years from now. I didnt make a mistake about Bertans. My mistake was with Dedmon. I keep on thinking his second year is a team option.
I know Bartoon can shoot but if the spurs do trade for him, he's more than likeey going to be a 15/year guy and he is going to get that much..You're basically trading a pick for 1 year and half of will Barton. I just don't think its worth it. Way too much risk involved.
I think the best thing to do right now is to compete with whaever they have right now and some cheap rookies. I can't imagine this team competing at all in 2018 without Another Star when Lamarcus signs elsewhere.
To be honest, none of that is true. Kawhi and Green are both great defender who do just fine playing against bigger guys. Tim guarded bigger guys plenty. Murray learning how to defend SGs just makes sense. He can always go back to "PG" (which he would do for a few minutes every game anyway) later. He's not going to be ruined because he had to learn to maximize his length against 6-4 two-guards rather than against 6-1 PGs. It just doesn't make sense to argue that.
More importantly, a Murray that knows how to defend bigger guys only raises the Spurs' defensive ceiling, since it allows them to switch more effectively. Murray being either good or bad depends completely on him, not who he checks during the few minutes he is with the bench guard. He's currently a horrible defender. Maybe cutting his teeth in match-ups where he doesn't have a huge size advantage is the best way to expedite his growth.
I don't think you're looking at either end, honestly. If you are, it's only in a very 2D way. Nothing is as simple as defense being based on height or offense being based on separating scoring from play-making.
Kinda like that old "Kawhi is a system player" stats. GTFOH with that .
Bertans will be Arenas-locked. So his salary shouldn't be a big deal.
Barton is shooting 38% from 3 - its respectable. It would be nice to have a better Simmons instead of having to rely on Manu/Mills in the 2nd unit IMO. Spurs were counting on Simmons to really develop as a play maker to offset Manu some and it just hasn't happened.
Mills can't fill that void.
Get out of here with actual facts? All I did was post what actually is going on. It's not a knock on Mills.Kinda like that old "Kawhi is a system player" stats. GTFOH with that .
He can't. He can only do his job, which Barton can't do. Simmons can't either. Same with Manu. So now you have three guys trying to be Manu and no Millses.
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