Pay Patty in the Off-season

[dabom]

TD 21 going off.

[MaNu4Tres]

He's basically co 6th man and with Ginobili on the verge of retirement and Lee likely gone too, it'll be more clear cut, barring a quantum leap from Murray.

I didn't say he was a "dynamic scorer", but he is a scorer; not just a spot up shooter, which is much easier to replace. Either way, one floor spacer on a unit isn't enough.

If "true scorers" provide play making, then by that logic, Leonard and Aldridge aren't true scorers.

You see this as an either or between Mills and Murray; I don't. It's not so much that I think Mills has to be kept at all costs, it's the unappealing alternatives, which is either the non shooting trio of Murray-Simmons-Anderson or only one of the latter two and an inexpensive shooter. Good luck trying to maintain a top 2-4 team that way, especially with Parker and Gasol another year older.

Here's where I think we disagree.

1) Leonard and Aldridge are multidimensional scorers. Mills is not. Leonard and Aldridge can score in a mul ude of ways -- Jumpers, ISOs, posting up, getting to the line, ect. Mills can just shoot. That's it. He can't create shots for himself with the ball without a screen AND lazy PnR defense. He doesn't have other options besides using screens off the ball or spotting up. Mills is not a multidimensional scorer -- he's an Eddie House, a Gary Neal. He can score yes, but he's handcuffed to only shooting just like Eddie House and Gary Neal were.

Remember when Gary Neal avg. 10 points a game, 3 years in a row, shooting the ball? Remember the guy who waived the towel a lot that was buried behind him in the rotation? Did the Spurs recover when they decided to not pay Neal? If Neal had Mills' character and at ude, Spurstalk would have been so against letting him go ( much like people are doing now about Mills). How would they ever replace a shooter? Neal was the exact same player. Great shooter with the screen, great spot up shooter, terrible defender, not a good creator. However Neal had a more selfish or quick trigger from time to time, but same skillset nonetheless. And the Spurs were just fine letting him go because they had a player making hardly anything behind him ready for a promotion ( Mills then -- now Murray).

2) I don't think the gap between Manu/Patty and their presumed future successors is significant, if at all. I think Simmons and Murray are close to Manu/Patty overall offensively, all while offering much more on the defensive end. You seem to think otherwise as you're implying there's a significant gap and Spurs would be a 5th-8th seed because Mills/Manu are better shooters ( all while glossing over all the other important parts of the game). This isn't 2014 anymore for Manu and Murray is much better and more ready than most thought he would be early on. He has better defense, which is half the overall impact, better play-making --which is very valuable offensively and his shot has improved to be at least respectable). I don't see the gap you're seeing.

3) I don't think David Lee is going anywhere, he's at an age where the minimum is going to be the reality for him. The minimum will be more than it is now, but I think he'll be stuck with it due to the market for 34-36 yr old PF vets off the bench. And I honestly think David is really enjoying himself in San Antonio, you can really see it with his body language on and off the court. And say I'm dead wrong and a team comes in and offers David a 3 yr/20 million dollar deal, Spurs have Bertans ready for an expanded role and they have Anderson too - no harm no foul there.

4) I don't think its a Murray OR Mills dilemma. I just don't think Mills is worth a 4/44-50 million dollar deal. Not close. Not with Murray ready for an expanded role for 1/12th- 1/14th of Mills' presumed salary. I'll wish Mills the best, great guy, great teammate, but its basketball economics. I don't agree with that decision to pay Mills, just like I didn't agree to pay George Hill -- when me and objective discussed (weeks prior to draft) and wanted the Spurs to cash in their chips for Hill by trading him at the draft to Indiana for their 15th before his last season under rookie contract.

[Nathan89]

He's a 6ft shooter. You don't overpay for that. Spurs have to go after players with upside for pennies on the dollar. Not tie up their money in Patty ing Mills.

[TD 21]

Here's where I think we disagree.

1) Leonard and Aldridge are multidimensional scorers. Mills is not. Leonard and Aldridge can score in a mul ude of ways -- Jumpers, ISOs, posting up, getting to the line, ect. Mills can just shoot. That's it. He can't create shots for himself with the ball without a screen AND lazy PnR defense. He doesn't have other options besides using screens off the ball or spotting up. Mills is not a multidimensional scorer -- he's an Eddie House, a Gary Neal. He can score yes, but he's handcuffed to only shooting just like Eddie House and Gary Neal were.

Remember when Gary Neal avg. 10 points a game, 3 years in a row, shooting the ball? Remember the guy who waived the towel a lot that was buried behind him in the rotation? Did the Spurs recover when they decided to not pay Neal? If Neal had Mills' character and at ude, Spurstalk would have been so against letting him go ( much like people are doing now about Mills). How would they ever replace a shooter? Neal was the exact same player. Great shooter with the screen, great spot up shooter, terrible defender, not a good creator. However Neal had a more selfish or quick trigger from time to time, but same skillset nonetheless. And the Spurs were just fine letting him go because they had a player making hardly anything behind him ready for a promotion ( Mills then -- now Murray).

2) I don't think the gap between Manu/Patty and their presumed future successors is significant, if at all. I think Simmons and Murray are close to Manu/Patty overall offensively, all while offering much more on the defensive end. You seem to think otherwise as you're implying there's a significant gap and Spurs would be a 5th-8th seed because Mills/Manu are better shooters ( all while glossing over all the other important parts of the game). This isn't 2014 anymore for Manu and Murray is much better and more ready than most thought he would be early on. He has better defense, which is half the overall impact, better play-making --which is very valuable offensively and his shot has improved to be at least respectable). I don't see the gap you're seeing.

3) I don't think David Lee is going anywhere, he's at an age where the minimum is going to be the reality for him. The minimum will be more than it is now, but I think he'll be stuck with it due to the market for 34-36 yr old PF vets off the bench. And I honestly think David is really enjoying himself in San Antonio, you can really see it with his body language on and off the court. And say I'm dead wrong and a team comes in and offers David a 3 yr/20 million dollar deal, Spurs have Bertans ready for an expanded role and they have Anderson too - no harm no foul there.

4) I don't think its a Murray OR Mills dilemma. I just don't think Mills is worth a 4/44-50 million dollar deal. Not close. Not with Murray ready for an expanded role for 1/12th- 1/14th of Mills' presumed salary. I'll wish Mills the best, great guy, great teammate, but its basketball economics. I don't agree with that decision to pay Mills, just like I didn't agree to pay George Hill -- when me and objective discussed (weeks prior to draft) and wanted the Spurs to cash in their chips for Hill by trading him at the draft to Indiana for their 15th before his last season under rookie contract.

1) Sure, Leonard and Aldridge are more complete scorers, but Mills is still a scorer/shooter and this is a team that is already lacking in firepower compared to the other elites, specifically the Warriors. Murray should be able to provide some, but when? Remember, they're still trying to win now.

They could let Neal go because Mills was clearly a rotation caliber player, who could provide the same things and they signed Belinelli, who was a proven rotation player who provided the same things. Murray doesn't provide what Mills does.

2) I think there's too much overlap between Murray and Simmons and that they'd be an awkward pairing, unless at least one shows significant improvement in their range shooting. If you don't have explosive offense, you can't win a championship in this era.

I didn't say anything about a 5-8 seed, I said top 2-4 team overall. They could easily fall out of that tier and into the next one.

Too early to make any definitive declarations on Murray.

3) I don't see the minimum as the reality for Lee necessarily and though I think he'd like to stay and they'd like to keep him, it's probably not practical. Bertans is ready now to be a rotation player, they'd make for an awkward pairing defensively on a full time basis and Lee is not yet at the point where I could envision him accepting a non rotation role.

4) I think Mills would take less to stay, something like $10-11M for a 6th man in '17 is not exorbitant and Hill was in a different situation. He was blocked by a late prime Ginobili and early prime Parker and they were too small as a trio to log significant minutes together. Plus, the team had a clear need at small forward.

[SAGirl]

This is still a current debate. Mills getting exposed against good defensive teams.

[dabom]

Fathead got blocked by 100 year old Vince Carter.

[spursistan]

Paddy making or breaking our season ..

Still think a "good Manu" game (12 pts/3ast/3reb/2stl) has the biggest impact on the Spurs than any other player off the bench ..Call me crazy but I would rather pay a 41 year-old Ginobili 4-6 millions in 2017-2018 than Microwave 48-50 millions if it comes to that...Then 2018 summer is when the major overhaul of the team happens with Aldridge/Pau/Parker/Green all come off the books or hit FA..

[PopTheGOAT]

At a reasonable price, I'd like Patty to be back. However, that's not going to happen unless he gives SA a big time discount. I think in the end, PATFO will decide that, considering the future at the PG position and Murray's transition to a key role, its best to let him make his money elsewhere.

As a sidebar, I really don't see Lee going anywhere

[$pursDynasty]

with how all the garbage teams (ahem Pistons) like to overpay for Spurs roll players, (and the Spurs letting them) I don't think Patty will be here next year. The last time his contract came up we were fresh off the glow of a le, and he had an injury. imo that is the only way we keep him again. (if we can snatch 6 )

[spursistan]

..

The most overrated Spurs player of the 2010s..

[TheGreatYacht]

Raisen brains on here don't want to give him up for Will Barton

[emanueldavidginobili]

Murray needs to become the back up point guard patty is obviously not our future, he's a way undersized guard who is terrible at defense not a good passer and is very inconsistent. Pop is to attached to patty to ever put him behind Murray though

[Hoops Czar]

Skatty Mills is hot garbage but, so is the majority of this roster.

[TheGreatYacht]

dabom

[MaNu4Tres]

Still feel the same..

[LittleCriminal]

I think Anderson needs to get the boot rather than mills..

[$pursDynasty]

Still say package them both for Lou Williams

[Ice009]

Still say package them both for Lou Williams

Absolutely. This is another scenario I would fly to SA for. Drive Mills and whoever else to the airport and fly back home.

[spursistan]

..


Let's hope PATFO don't get stiffed in another PG deal..Love (ed) him for what he's been for the team, but we got bigger roster fishes to fry..

[dabom]

This guy said 1-4

[TheGreatYacht]

..


Let's hope PATFO don't get stiffed in another PG deal..Love (ed) him for what he's been for the team, but we got bigger roster fishes to fry..

[TheGreatYacht]

[spursistan]

..

'contract year' Paddy? He's been medicore and no better than last two seasons for 4 months now.. ..

[TheGreatYacht]

..

'contract year' Paddy? He's been medicore and no better than last two seasons for 4 months now.. ..

but, but, he's OG! :

[MaNu4Tres]

I'm already looking forward to the offseason tbh. I've been a fan all my life and I keep it real. MEmphis will give Spurs fits .. to 6 or 7. I got HOU over SA in round 2.