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  1. #51
    Believe. south side spur's Avatar
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    Is that 1 series win to 9 series losses without Pippen?
    Single games not series

  2. #52
    Veteran Mnky's Avatar
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    A guy who led the league in PPP on pick and rolls, almost had a 50-40-90 season, is that versatile that he can drive to the hoop, take the mid-j, shoot the three, post-up...And scoring 24.5 ppg in less shots than any other superstar?

    That sounds like a true 'major offensive weapon'



    He isn't responsible for every Spurs' loss.

    Kawhi was the best player on the court in the game in Chicago but it's easier for you to say the loss was on him if you forget the horrible game that LMA, Parker and Manu had.

    I mean, we should blame him for the loss when he plays bad not just because he's the best player on the team.
    He's not a curry or a Durant or a LeBron on the offensive side. Those are major. Not hard to tell a difference.
    He's pretty good.

    If he gets credit for team wins, he should get credit for team loses. Fair way, no more.

  3. #53
    Spur for life YGWHI's Avatar
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    He's not a curry or a Durant or a LeBron on the offensive side. Those are major. Not hard to tell a difference.
    He's pretty good.
    I'd say you have a restrictive concept of 'major offensive weapon' ...IMO, there are more than two or three in the league and Kawhi is one of them this season.

    If he gets credit for team wins, he should get credit for team loses. Fair way, no more.
    Even if he plays good in those loses? That doesn't seem right.

    He gets credit for the wins because Kawhi playing good to great is one of the main reasons for Spurs winning record, but he doesn't get credit for the victory when he plays bad in the game.

    With the same criteria, we shouldn't blame him if he plays great and the Spurs still lose.

  4. #54
    Veteran SASdynasty!'s Avatar
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    Porker was a one-way player & he wasn't a top 5 offensive player at any point of his career to be referred to as a "superstar". Isaiah Thomas this season is playing as well as Porker did at his PEAK & nobody is calling him a "superstar".: http://bkref.com/tiny/o0hfb
    Hahaha, you're comparing a guy who stat-pads on a bad team, has never won a playoff series or even shot 40% in playoff series to a FMVP who was one of only 2 opponents to ever outplay Lebron in the playoffs?

  5. #55
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    Hahaha, you're comparing a guy who stat-pads on a bad team, has never won a playoff series or even shot 40% in playoff series to a FMVP who was one of only 2 opponents to ever outplay Lebron in the playoffs?
    Through their first two playoff series, Isaiah has performed better despite not playing w/ anyone on Tim's level.

  6. #56
    Veteran Mnky's Avatar
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    I'd say you have a restrictive concept of 'major offensive weapon' ...IMO, there are more than two or three in the league and Kawhi is one of them this season.


    Even if he plays good in those loses? That doesn't seem right.

    He gets credit for the wins because Kawhi playing good to great is one of the main reasons for Spurs winning record, but he doesn't get credit for the victory when he plays bad in the game.

    With the same criteria, we shouldn't blame him if he plays great and the Spurs still lose.
    Nah, you're making things way Kore complicated than they need to be. Kawhi is a top 5 player, not a top 5 offensive player. Those top 5 are major offensive weapons. Once again, pretty simple logic.

    As well, I said there should be a fair amount of credit BOTH ways. Your defense is a perfect world scenario, which we don't live in so we don't have to worry about.

  7. #57
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    This current Spurs team is a le contender no matter what some in this forum would have us believe. So where is HE taking this team. It's on HIM no one else. No one can reasonably argue about Kawhi's greatness and how he is on a hall of fame trajectory and then when the team falls short of a championship deflect blame to every other player BUT him.
    Jordan gets a pass for not even getting past the 2nd rd w/o Pippen only b/c he won w/ Pippen.

    When Kawhi had a LEGIT supporting cast, he led the demolishing on LeBron & the Heatles. That wasn't the case in '15 & '16 when the only teammates that showed up were 39 yr old Tim against the Cripples along w/ Softridge making a cameo for 2 games against OKC.

    You can criticize Kawhi if he wets the bed like LeBron did in the '11 Finals while getting outplayed by Jason in' Terry or Dominos choking the '16 WCF playing w/ a superstar like Westbrook who led the team to 3 wins & Ibaka/Adams demolishing the Duds frontline.

  8. #58
    Believe. south side spur's Avatar
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    You can criticize Kawhi if he wets the bed like LeBron did in the '11 Finals while getting outplayed by Jason in' Terry or Dominos choking the '16 WCF playing w/ a superstar like Westbrook who led the team to 3 wins & Ibaka/Adams demolishing the Duds frontline.
    What would you call game 7 of the Clippers series? Regardless of whichever player did or didn't show up to that point is irrelevant. You want to compare Kawhi to the greats? It was just the 1st round but this could be considered a legacy building game. You really don't want to get into the metrics and video of this game do you?

    You'd rather discuss who didn't show up the previous 6 games right? Be objective. Be honest. He the bed. You're a numbers guy it's right there in black and white.

    I'm telling you I believe in Kawhis greatness but we can't lie about this . I'm not going to link that game because any of y'all so called metrics people know the numbers. It's just how you rationalize them. Having Kawhi be accountable or deflecting accountability to yalls favorite target, Parker.

    Look I USED to be a Parker guy but it's evident he's not what he was. I want Murray to start...that's my position. Throw him into the fire. He'd provide a spark to the starting lineup IMO. But that Clippers game 7...as much as y'all would like to blame Parker he arguably had a better game than Leonard.

  9. #59
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    What would you call game 7 of the Clippers series? Regardless of whichever player did or didn't show up to that point is irrelevant. You want to compare Kawhi to the greats? It was just the 1st round but this could be considered a legacy building game. You really don't want to get into the metrics and video of this game do you?

    You'd rather discuss who didn't show up the previous 6 games right? Be objective. Be honest. He the bed. You're a numbers guy it's right there in black and white.
    Kawhi wasn't even an All-Star or All-NBA player in '14-'15. His prime started last season when he was the MAN from day one.

    LeBron MISSED the LEASTERN conference playoffs in his second season when he was an All-NBA player.

  10. #60
    Believe. south side spur's Avatar
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    LeBron MISSED the LEASTERN conference playoffs in his second season when he was an All-NBA player.
    Except, we're not talking about their 2nd season we're talking about their 4th. Everyone knows the rosters Jordan and LeBron had in their first few years can't compare to Kawhi's supporting cast.

  11. #61
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    Except, we're not talking about their 2nd season we're talking about their 4th. Everyone knows the rosters Jordan and LeBron had in their first few years can't compare to Kawhi's supporting cast.
    Yeah Kawhi's lone supporting cast of 39 year old Timmay against the Cripples was incomparable to the Cavs frontline which had All-Star Big Z averaging 17/9/2, Gooden putting up career best 14/9 & Sideshow Bob doing all the dirty work off the bench. (That's the same frontline that took 'em to the Finals)

  12. #62
    Slam Duncan Kidd K's Avatar
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    Kawhi already surpassed PG level a season ago...That's why that comparison sounds that stupid right now in 2016.
    I know what he was referring to, I was referring to the same thing. 2-3 years ago people were talking about him vs George. That was never unreasonable. MJ though? Yeah, I just don't see it being possible. MJ's offense was god-like. He was multiple tiers above Paul George. Years ago George was only half a tier or so above what Kawhi seemed to be turning in to. Now Kawhi's better than George, but still a far cry from Jordan. I don't see that gap being closed by very much tbh. Kawhi has the D but the offense is just way short.

  13. #63
    Pronouns: Your/Dad TheGreatYacht's Avatar
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    Yeah Kawhi's lone supporting cast of 39 year old Timmay against the Cripples was incomparable to the Cavs frontline which had All-Star Big Z averaging 17/9/2, Gooden putting up career best 14/9 & Sideshow Bob doing all the dirty work off the bench. (That's the same frontline that took 'em to the Finals)
    What about the 67 win team last year? Aldridge, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Mills, Diaw, Green, Popovich, etc...

    Does Kawhi need the ing Monstars?

  14. #64
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  15. #65
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    What about the 67 win team last year? Aldridge, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Mills, Diaw, Green, Popovich, etc...
    Let's see what happened to that great supporting cast 2 month later:

    -Timmay/Bonner/K-Mart/Dre: Retired
    -Turd Towers: Dumped
    -Manure: Contemplated retirement & only came back b/c of a loyalty back-pay.
    -Porker: TGY turned his back on him b/c he's completely TOSB
    -Softridge: Trade rumors
    -Poop: ST is calling for his head more than ever

    The Rest:
    -Patty: Couldn't hit a in' shot against OKC
    -Danny: had worst season of his career
    -Fat Head:
    -Simmons: Couldn't get off the pine in the postseason

    Kawhi finished 2nd in MVP b/c he carried a bunch of corpses to 60+ wins like LeBron did at the end of his first run w/ Cleveland.

  16. #66
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    I know what he was referring to, I was referring to the same thing. 2-3 years ago people were talking about him vs George. That was never unreasonable. MJ though? Yeah, I just don't see it being possible. MJ's offense was god-like. He was multiple tiers above Paul George. Years ago George was only half a tier or so above what Kawhi seemed to be turning in to. Now Kawhi's better than George, but still a far cry from Jordan. I don't see that gap being closed by very much tbh. Kawhi has the D but the offense is just way short.
    Nobody said he's Jordan but name me another two-way wing-player 25 or under that's more comparable to '87-'88 Jordan.

  17. #67
    Pronouns: Your/Dad TheGreatYacht's Avatar
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  18. #68
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    Guess who isn't laughing:


  19. #69
    Pronouns: Your/Dad TheGreatYacht's Avatar
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    Guess who isn't laughing:

    Late subs ution, he was interrupted right before shooting the second free throw

  20. #70
    Believe. south side spur's Avatar
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    Yeah Kawhi's lone supporting cast of 39 year old Timmay against the Cripples was incomparable to the Cavs frontline which had All-Star Big Z averaging 17/9/2, Gooden putting up career best 14/9 & Sideshow Bob doing all the dirty work off the bench. (That's the same frontline that took 'em to the Finals)
    You've deflected right back to that Clippers game 7. If you want Kawhi to be considered with Jordan or LeBron he's going to have to average close to 30 ppg these playoffs. He's got some work to do. He's been improving every season but this would be his biggest jump. It's not probable but I'm hoping he gets close. If he doesn't it won't be anyone else's fault not even Parker or Pop.

  21. #71
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    Late subs ution, he was interrupted right before shooting the second free throw
    Kawhi did that on purpose to w/ diva Queen Jamie.

  22. #72
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    You've deflected right back to that Clippers game 7. If you want Kawhi to be considered with Jordan or LeBron he's going to have to average close to 30 ppg these playoffs. He's got some work to do. He's been improving every season but this would be his biggest jump. It's not probable but I'm hoping he gets close. If he doesn't it won't be anyone else's fault not even Parker or Pop.
    He DOESN'T have to average 30, he just has to maintain his level of play. LeBron didn't average 30 in any series let alone for the entire postseason during the 2013 championship run. He basically maintained his regular season PPG but his TS% actually dipped from 64% to 58%.

    Let's compare Kawhi's '16 playoffs performance to '13 LeBron: http://bkref.com/tiny/ROakr
    I guess, you guys would also have run LeBron out of town if he was a Spurs.


    Context: Jordan played in an era where zone defense was illegal thus defense couldn't load up on a player & you couldn't double anyone without the ball b/c of illegal defense which meant he could play 1-on-1 even if he got cracked when he went to the rim. (Hand checking wouldn't have bothered guys like Kawhi/LeBron b/c they are stronger than their peers just like Jordan but finesse guys like Curry would have suffered tremendously)

  23. #73
    Believe. south side spur's Avatar
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    He DOESN'T have to average 30, he just has to maintain his level of play. LeBron didn't average 30 in any series let alone for the entire postseason during the 2013 championship run.
    Ok so how about 27.5 ppg? And stop with this run him out of town bull . This is what he has to do to be mentioned with LeBron and Jordan.

  24. #74
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    Ok so how about 27.5 ppg? And stop with this run him out of town bull . This is what he has to do to be mentioned with LeBron and Jordan.
    LeBron essentially got run out of town from Cleveland by critiques b/c he couldn't get past Doc's Celtics.

  25. #75
    Believe. south side spur's Avatar
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    LeBron essentially got run out of town from Cleveland by critiques b/c he couldn't get past Doc's Celtics.
    That's an interesting way of looking at The Decision. I think most people would say HE ran otherwise why would the people of Ohio feel so betrayed? Because they wanted him gone?

    I guess that is a millennial perspective. This is difficult. Hmmmm...I'll run away instead of dealing with it.

    Then deflecting blame onto others instead of accepting responsibility.

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