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  1. #26
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  2. #27
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  3. #28
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    Mexico's Hero


  4. #29
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    Jose Hernandez wondo'ing the ball over the crossbar.

  5. #30
    Corpus Christi Spurs Fan Phenomanul's Avatar
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    You're barking up the wrong tree Spurtacular...

    Besides, winning this Gold Cup doesn't confer qualification for the next Confederations Cup -> that distinction goes to the winner of the 2019 Gold Cup.

    That's usually why Mexico decides to bring their A-Squad only for the Gold Cup tournaments that confer those berths. The 2017 Edition did not.
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  6. #31
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    You're barking up the wrong tree Spurtacular...

    Besides, winning this Gold Cup doesn't confer qualification for the next Confederations Cup -> that distinction goes to the winner of the 2019 Gold Cup.

    That's usually why Mexico decides to bring their A-Squad only for the Gold Cup tournaments that confer those berths. The 2017 Edition did not.
    Wrong. The 2021 Concacaf Confed Cup representative goes to the winnner of a playoff between 2017 and 2019 GC winners. Maybe, you thought the second winner got the nod b/c you figured that's what happened with Mexico. But in reality, they won in 13 and 15 and no playoff was necessary. And Mexico was so demoralized after being spanked by Germany that they're doing their best to not qualify for another ass kicking.

  7. #32
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    That's usually why Mexico decides to bring their A-Squad only for the Gold Cup tournaments that confer those berths. The 2017 Edition did not.
    Mexico's "A-squad" isn't even an A-squad. After their best overseas club players were failing to qualify for the last WC, they brought in a coach, who brought in the domestic schlubs to try and get the job done. They didn't even do that, really. San Zusi had to bail their asses out!

  8. #33
    Deutschland über alles dfens's Avatar
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    Mexico's "A-squad" isn't even an A-squad. After their best overseas club players were failing to qualify for the last WC, they brought in a coach, who brought in the domestic schlubs to try and get the job done. They didn't even do that, really. San Zusi had to bail their asses out!
    son you've got a lot of enthusiasm in this thread tbh. still mexico >> usa in terms of football, even if they're in a complete meltdown these days. it's just how it is tbh.
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  9. #34
    Winner in a losers circle 140's Avatar
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    Strawberry pickers forever
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  10. #35
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    son you've got a lot of enthusiasm in this thread tbh. still mexico >> usa in terms of football, even if they're in a complete meltdown these days. it's just how it is tbh.



  11. #36
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    son you've got a lot of enthusiasm in this thread tbh. still mexico >> usa in terms of football, even if they're in a complete meltdown these days. it's just how it is tbh.
    It is.

    Except when they play each other.
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  12. #37
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    USMNT have the bragging rights. They f'ing eliminated Mexico at 02 WC and later qualified for Mexico for 14 WC by proxy.

  13. #38
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    Which is why the US doesn't want the Gokd Cup played in Mexico... fear. Almost every edition is played on US soil... the FMF still take in the dough but still, it goes to show who the strongest NT is in CONCACAF...

  14. #39
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    Which is why the US doesn't want the Gokd Cup played in Mexico... fear. Almost every edition is played on US soil... the FMF still take in the dough but still, it goes to show who the strongest NT is in CONCACAF...
    Doesn't matter. All the teams want the Gold Cup played in the US so they can get paid. You think the Mexicans don't want their fat stacks?

  15. #40
    Corpus Christi Spurs Fan Phenomanul's Avatar
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    Doesn't matter. All the teams want the Gold Cup played in the US so they can get paid. You think the Mexicans don't want their fat stacks?
    Mexican NT doesn't need money. The Cartels are "fans" as well and funnel all sorts of monies in their direction. NOT proud of that obviously, but stating a known (and well documented) fact.

  16. #41
    Deutschland über alles dfens's Avatar
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    USMNT have the bragging rights. They f'ing eliminated Mexico at 02 WC and later qualified for Mexico for 14 WC by proxy.
    sorry to kill your parade and all but mexico does play better football even if head to head they do worse. The overall quality of their game >>> us's quality. I am a fan of neither team.

    It is.
    Except when they play each other.
    in the long run (world cups) it matters little. Mexico are better at playing football and are a tougher team to play against. They're just inconsistent and mentally weak but they are a far better team overall.

  17. #42
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    One of the reasons why the U.S. has had that run of success in Columbus Ohio happens to line up with Jack Warner's rise to power within CONCACAF and who he surrounded himself within its upper circle. Even though Mexico is historically the region's "football giant" the FMF and CONCACAF have seemingly always been at odds with each other since Jack Warner took the helm. The doping scandals (that were later rescinded but caused turmoil against Mexican players prior to the 2011 Gold Cup tournament, etc...)

    The format for CONCACAF WC qualifiers was restructured prior to the 2002 WC qualification phase. What are the odds that all of the Hexagonal matches between the U.S. and Mexico have ALWAYS lined up to set the match in Columbus in the dead set of winter? Think about it. The US/Mexico game in the final phase is always scheduled in Nov, Dec, or Jan. The CONCACAF committee sets the dates and always gives the US that singular advantage. It seems like the pattern is repeating under Alfredo Hawit. I remember the FMF protested the schedule prior to the WC in 2006 and CONCACAF literally told Mexico, "screw you, we're in charge here - not you".

    Do you believe this year's edition will yield the same result? I don't know.

    I do subscribe to the belief that Mexican NT footballers are mentally weak and somehow can't overcome playing in 20 degree weather. It's like a Pavlovian effect at this point.

  18. #43
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    Mexican NT doesn't need money. The Cartels are "fans" as well and funnel all sorts of monies in their direction. NOT proud of that obviously, but stating a known (and well documented) fact.
    You underestimate the power of greed. But even if I took what you said at face value; the Mexicans would have no problem getting the Gold Cup to Mexico if they wanted it. So, what's the reason they don't want it if not the money? Reality is it's the money. And in many cases, they're getting venues where they have essentially a home field advantage, anyways. Also, imo, if they started playing too many games in Mexico, other teams would start getting comfortable and they'd start to lose their edge. In recent years this has been a creeping problem as it is.

  19. #44
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    sorry to kill your parade and all but mexico does play better football even if head to head they do worse. The overall quality of their game >>> us's quality. I am a fan of neither team.



    in the long run (world cups) it matters little. Mexico are better at playing football and are a tougher team to play against. They're just inconsistent and mentally weak but they are a far better team overall.
    Yea, if you count all that sh** before 1990 that really doesn't matter a whole lot. And even in the olden days when the US had no use for soccer, we were still sneakin' some wins in.

    I don't know what your metric is for "tougher". Frankly, the results don't seem to make the case you're making. Yea, the US was a bit discombobulated at the end of the Klinsmann era when the players wanted him gone and Mexico was on a nice run; but peaks and valleys is reality for pretty much everyone besides Germany. Head to head, Mexico has traditionally been the better possession team; but the US has been great about scoring against the run of play.

    And if we're to just look at it from right now, I don't see great potential for Mexico going forward. For me, they've peaked. Whereas, the US has some great young talent on the rise and mixing them with some of the vets; let's just say if they can get the chemistry right by the World Cup, this could be the most exciting team since 02 and maybe surpass that team. Of course, the worry is that they don't and it's more like 98 or 06.

  20. #45
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    One of the reasons why the U.S. has had that run of success in Columbus Ohio happens to line up with Jack Warner's rise to power within CONCACAF and who he surrounded himself within its upper circle. Even though Mexico is historically the region's "football giant" the FMF and CONCACAF have seemingly always been at odds with each other since Jack Warner took the helm. The doping scandals (that were later rescinded but caused turmoil against Mexican players prior to the 2011 Gold Cup tournament, etc...)

    The format for CONCACAF WC qualifiers was restructured prior to the 2002 WC qualification phase. What are the odds that all of the Hexagonal matches between the U.S. and Mexico have ALWAYS lined up to set the match in Columbus in the dead set of winter? Think about it. The US/Mexico game in the final phase is always scheduled in Nov, Dec, or Jan. The CONCACAF committee sets the dates and always gives the US that singular advantage. It seems like the pattern is repeating under Alfredo Hawit. I remember the FMF protested the schedule prior to the WC in 2006 and CONCACAF literally told Mexico, "screw you, we're in charge here - not you".

    Do you believe this year's edition will yield the same result? I don't know.

    I do subscribe to the belief that Mexican NT footballers are mentally weak and somehow can't overcome playing in 20 degree weather. It's like a Pavlovian effect at this point.
    I would never doubt the politics you mention. And you're probably on the money on this one. But let's not pretend it doesn't go both ways. For decades, before the modern age of social media scrutiny, referees at Azteca were basically Mexico's 13th man because they valued their own lives over a soccer game. This made winning there next to impossible.

    As for the Hex this time around, the US got the treatment if anything. They had to open at home against Mexico when they were in a state of turmoil; and then we had to go down to Coasta Rica when they were peaking. The committee basically saddled us with two L's. No excuses, we shot our own foot with Klinsmann; but I am pointing out that clearly we don't always get the best schedule. Maybe, if we do have that much power, this was done to finally shove Klinsmann out the door. But given how much money we were on the hook for him and how ridiculously loyal our president was to him, I have my doubts about that (And no "giant" is for sure going to dig out of a two loss hole in the Hex).

  21. #46
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    I do subscribe to the belief that Mexican NT footballers are mentally weak and somehow can't overcome playing in 20 degree weather. It's like a Pavlovian effect at this point.
    The problem is that you rely on skill and cohesion, but the athleticism simply isn't there. When you start throwing monkey wrenches, it breaks down.

  22. #47
    Deutschland über alles dfens's Avatar
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    Yea, if you count all that sh** before 1990 that really doesn't matter a whole lot. And even in the olden days when the US had no use for soccer, we were still sneakin' some wins in.

    I don't know what your metric is for "tougher". Frankly, the results don't seem to make the case you're making. Yea, the US was a bit discombobulated at the end of the Klinsmann era when the players wanted him gone and Mexico was on a nice run; but peaks and valleys is reality for pretty much everyone besides Germany. Head to head, Mexico has traditionally been the better possession team; but the US has been great about scoring against the run of play.

    And if we're to just look at it from right now, I don't see great potential for Mexico going forward. For me, they've peaked. Whereas, the US has some great young talent on the rise and mixing them with some of the vets; let's just say if they can get the chemistry right by the World Cup, this could be the most exciting team since 02 and maybe surpass that team. Of course, the worry is that they don't and it's more like 98 or 06.
    son this football game is a bit more complicated then talent. What mexico has over the us isn't just consistent talent production, it has the institution of football strongly ingrained in the population. It is a football cultivated country, hence even with bad coaches and a the NT in disarray you see creative, tactically astute play. You see one-twos, you see shifting formations, you see high quality players pop up once in a while (e.g. marquez) and you see very strong games vs tough teams in competitive environments. You see a team playing football not just parking the bus and hoping for a miracle (so american..).

    US has produced some results but it's always the same kick and run, and that is guaranteed to produce nothing but cheap thrills in the long term, and also a culture of bigger stronger faster that is inflicted both upon the NT and the fans. The american fans can't appreciate the tension and tactical back on fourth of a 0-0, they're just uneducated. A great american generation will get trounced by a contender in the quarter finals, best case scenario for kick and run teams, because they can't and don't play constructive football, they just try to destroy the game and only run and jump on the pitch, they rarely move without the ball, rarely put tactical pressure, rarely use positional play, etc. They just play an inferior game and the us is a perfect example. The best possible USA outcome is to be England (talented team but still kick and run) who with all that talent still hasn't done and won't do shit because they play a primitive brand of football.

    Long term Mexico's prospects are far better imo, once they hit a truly talented generation they might win some relevant silverware like copa america with a decent coach and some stability. It isn't easy but at least the foundation is set, they play football and not kick and run.

  23. #48
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    son this football game is a bit more complicated then talent. What mexico has over the us isn't just consistent talent production, it has the institution of football strongly ingrained in the population. It is a football cultivated country, hence even with bad coaches and a the NT in disarray you see creative, tactically astute play. You see one-twos, you see shifting formations, you see high quality players pop up once in a while (e.g. marquez) and you see very strong games vs tough teams in competitive environments. You see a team playing football not just parking the bus and hoping for a miracle (so american..).

    US has produced some results but it's always the same kick and run, and that is guaranteed to produce nothing but cheap thrills in the long term, and also a culture of bigger stronger faster that is inflicted both upon the NT and the fans. The american fans can't appreciate the tension and tactical back on fourth of a 0-0, they're just uneducated. A great american generation will get trounced by a contender in the quarter finals, best case scenario for kick and run teams, because they can't and don't play constructive football, they just try to destroy the game and only run and jump on the pitch, they rarely move without the ball, rarely put tactical pressure, rarely use positional play, etc. They just play an inferior game and the us is a perfect example. The best possible USA outcome is to be England (talented team but still kick and run) who with all that talent still hasn't done and won't do shit because they play a primitive brand of football.

    Long term Mexico's prospects are far better imo, once they hit a truly talented generation they might win some relevant silverware like copa america with a decent coach and some stability. It isn't easy but at least the foundation is set, they play football and not kick and run.
    I agree that institutionally and perhaps more importantly, culturally, Mexico has had a strong advantage. Never said that wasn't the case. You guys obviously need that given there's no other way you'd be better than the US where the athleticism superior.

    And yes, Mexico has been the better possession team; but the fact that Jose Hernandez (Lil Chris Wondo) has been your best finisher is indicative of your lack of athleticism to bridge the gap in the final third.

    True, kick and run has been the problem at times. Though, it's overstated. The 02 team was great at ball movement, though we had some issue against Portugal and Germany; but our ability to bunker was an asset nonetheless. The 10 and 14 teams fell into that at times, but there's no denying that the impact of MLS has progressed our ability in that regard. I'd like to see an emphasis on composure going forward, and I saw signs of that in the recent Gold Cup.

    As for England, don't get me started on them. They all but wasted the David Beckham years. They didn't realize what they had 'til it was too late.

  24. #49
    Deutschland über alles dfens's Avatar
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    I agree that institutionally and perhaps more importantly, culturally, Mexico has had a strong advantage. Never said that wasn't the case. You guys obviously need that given there's no other way you'd be better than the US where the athleticism superior.

    And yes, Mexico has been the better possession team; but the fact that Jose Hernandez (Lil Chris Wondo) has been your best finisher is indicative of your lack of athleticism to bridge the gap in the final third.

    True, kick and run has been the problem at times. Though, it's overstated. The 02 team was great at ball movement, though we had some issue against Portugal and Germany; but our ability to bunker was an asset nonetheless. The 10 and 14 teams fell into that at times, but there's no denying that the impact of MLS has progressed our ability in that regard. I'd like to see an emphasis on composure going forward, and I saw signs of that in the recent Gold Cup.

    As for England, don't get me started on them. They all but wasted the David Beckham years. They didn't realize what they had 'til it was too late.
    1. Son, I'm German tbh, I have no ties to Mexico.
    2. The US never had ball movement, maybe against random Carribean countries but against strong teams they never had one.
    3. MLS isn't teaching you good football, it's teaching you bigger stronger faster and star power .. the whole footballing world has gone from bigger stronger faster since the late 80s and from star power (at NT level) since '06. MLS is great because it increases awareness and brings in some big names but quality wise it isn't something great long term.
    4. David Beckham if they wasted somebody they wasted paul scholes and the entire backbone created by fergie at manchester with some talented extra pieces like hargraves and owen, that's what they wasted. Beckham is just a pretty boy, he was at best the 4th most important player on that manchester team after keane/scholes/giggs.
    5. Athleticism is completely overrated in football, just look at Germany/Spain/Italy/Argentina. Skills + teamwork + intelligence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything else in football. Nigeria/Ghana/Ivory Coast/Cameroon are just nobodies. France can't win at home with amazing athleticism/talent/crowd/refs/skills/etc because they couldn't work together in a tough situation.

  25. #50
    Corpus Christi Spurs Fan Phenomanul's Avatar
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    I agree that institutionally and perhaps more importantly, culturally, Mexico has had a strong advantage. Never said that wasn't the case. You guys obviously need that given there's no other way you'd be better than the US where the athleticism superior.

    And yes, Mexico has been the better possession team; but the fact that Jose Hernandez [Javier Hernández] (Lil Chris Wondo) has been your best finisher is indicative of your lack of athleticism to bridge the gap in the final third.

    True, kick and run has been the problem at times. Though, it's overstated. The 02 team was great at ball movement, though we had some issue against Portugal and Germany; but our ability to bunker was an asset nonetheless. The 10 and 14 teams fell into that at times, but there's no denying that the impact of MLS has progressed our ability in that regard. I'd like to see an emphasis on composure going forward, and I saw signs of that in the recent Gold Cup.

    As for England, don't get me started on them. They all but wasted the David Beckham years. They didn't realize what they had 'til it was too late.
    And yet in the South African WC he was clocked as the fastest player with the ball and off the ball... back when they started using cameras for sports metrics...

    Literally what the U.S. has that Mexico doesn't is better genes... stronger players, taller players, faster players... unfortunately there isn't a gene for footballing vision. On that level Mexico's prowess dwarfs the talent of their U.S. counterparts with the possible exception of Dempsey and Bradley...

    Mexico has won the FIFA Confederations Cup, along with an Olympic Gold (after pros were allowed to play). They have more hardware than you are willing to admit. Also, they still have more Gold Cup Titles than the U.S. (even with the recent U.S. win).

    As for the Copa America, in 10 participations they have come in as runner-ups on two occasions and placed 3rd in 3 others. The best the U.S. has placed is 4th.

    Not even counting what they've achieved in the younger divisions... U21, U20, U19, U17 and U15

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