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  1. #51
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    And yet in the South African WC he was clocked as the fastest player with the ball and off the ball... back when they started using cameras for sports metrics...
    So, that stat must be the basketball plus/minus equivalent in soccer. Cos Hernandez is not that much of a burner; no ing way. But if he's the Patty Mills of soccer and much faster than one would think, then maybe. Though, it's seven years later, so I doubt he's that fast any more, anyways. He's certainly not gonna pull something like this.

    He's certainly never been at this level; EVER.


  2. #52
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    Literally what the U.S. has that Mexico doesn't is better genes... stronger players, taller players, faster players... unfortunately there isn't a gene for footballing vision. On that level Mexico's prowess dwarfs the talent of their U.S. counterparts with the possible exception of Dempsey and Bradley...
    Mexico is better at possession. This is something the US must work on. They also tend to be better at high ball pressure after the fact. This isn't a strategy suited to Dempsey/Altidorre. You play to your strengths, not your weaknesses. I'm encouraged by the emergence of guys like Nagby/Acosta who have good ball control as well as Pulisic and Morris who can apply pressure.

  3. #53
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    Mexico has won the FIFA Confederations Cup, along with an Olympic Gold (after pros were allowed to play). They have more hardware than you are willing to admit. Also, they still have more Gold Cup Titles than the U.S. (even with the recent U.S. win).

    As for the Copa America, in 10 participations they have come in as runner-ups on two occasions and placed 3rd in 3 others. The best the U.S. has placed is 4th.

    Not even counting what they've achieved in the younger divisions... U21, U20, U19, U17 and U15
    Olympics is a crap shoot in which only three pros from each squad even compete. It's daffy and counts for nothing as far as I'm concerned, other than some short term vibes and optimism.

    Mexico playing a 99 Confed Cup in Mexico in a non WC year means that much? I wouldn't say it's more impressive than USA dumping the would-be 10 WC winners Spain in the semis and then going up on Brazil 2-0. The Confed Cup means something now that it's every four years and as a prelude to the WC in the same country. What Mexico did was one click above exhibition; and it's practically ancient history.

    As for Copa, I'm not comparing USA to Mex on that long an arch. Just saying that over the last two decades, it's been pretty clear that USA is one of two CONCACAF giants; and other than the choke in the 11 WC (played in Mexico Jr. Rose Bowl), the USA has pretty well got the better of the meaningful games.

    Yea, I wouldn't count what's been achieved in U-whatever. That's fun and all if you want to pay attention to it; but it's like bragging about how a team's farm system is doing.

  4. #54
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    1. Son, I'm German tbh, I have no ties to Mexico.
    1. Then you know full well how inept Mexico is against top ten competition.

    * Destroyed in 7 minutes Getting the Brazil treatment
    * Lil Wondo wondo'ing the ball over the crossbar


  5. #55
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    2. The US never had ball movement, maybe against random Carribean countries but against strong teams they never had one.
    BS; the ball movement against Germany even in 02 was pretty dang good. And it took cheating for you guys to pull that one out.


  6. #56
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    3. MLS isn't teaching you good football, it's teaching you bigger stronger faster and star power .. the whole footballing world has gone from bigger stronger faster since the late 80s and from star power (at NT level) since '06. MLS is great because it increases awareness and brings in some big names but quality wise it isn't something great long term.
    It's pretty obvious from your assessment that you don't watch MLS. MLS is not about bigger, stronger, faster. That's what Euroball is (and I'm not saying that's bad). MLS is great for teaching fundamentals and cohesion and it has been very important in increasing the level of play or otherwise sustaining it. That said, I still consider MLS to be not a great league, and I prefer our players play in the premier league.

  7. #57
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    4. David Beckham if they wasted somebody they wasted paul scholes and the entire backbone created by fergie at manchester with some talented extra pieces like hargraves and owen, that's what they wasted. Beckham is just a pretty boy, he was at best the 4th most important player on that manchester team after keane/scholes/giggs.
    Uppity know-it-alls love to put down Beckham or diminish him. Dude creates great scoring chances on great balls like nobody else ever. The only one I put in his stratosphere for that is Pirlo. And saying Giggs or the other two > Beckham.

  8. #58
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    5. Athleticism is completely overrated in football, just look at Germany/Spain/Italy/Argentina. Skills + teamwork + intelligence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything else in football. Nigeria/Ghana/Ivory Coast/Cameroon are just nobodies. France can't win at home with amazing athleticism/talent/crowd/refs/skills/etc because they couldn't work together in a tough situation.
    Hardly. When US reached the Copa semi against Argentina, the difference in physical prowess was quite telling (and it's because their best athletes (minus Manu Ginobili) play soccer and ours' play anything but). And you're confusing speed with athleticism. Those African countries don't necessarily have any more athleticism than those you listed. And they do often lack simple intelligence, so you're right about that.

  9. #59
    Deutschland über alles dfens's Avatar
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    First you argue like that little boy midnightwhatever.

    1. Then you know full well how inept Mexico is against top ten competition.
    * Destroyed in 7 minutes Getting the Brazil treatment
    * Lil Wondo wondo'ing the ball over the crossbar
    everybody loses badly once in a while, it's just one game vs decades of consistent work. You think brasil are done because 7-1, these s will bounce back.

    BS; the ball movement against Germany even in 02 was pretty dang good. And it took cheating for you guys to pull that one out.
    Son, ball movment isn't just passing the ball around, it's about controlling pace and shifting pressure around the pitch.


    It's pretty obvious from your assessment that you don't watch MLS. MLS is not about bigger, stronger, faster. That's what Euroball is (and I'm not saying that's bad). MLS is great for teaching fundamentals and cohesion and it has been very important in increasing the level of play or otherwise sustaining it. That said, I still consider MLS to be not a great league, and I prefer our players play in the premier league.
    Euroball about bigger stronger faster you've been a football fan for what, 2 whole years? nobody can take you seriously after such a transgression tbh

    Uppity know-it-alls love to put down Beckham or diminish him. Dude creates great scoring chances on great balls like nobody else ever. The only one I put in his stratosphere for that is Pirlo. And saying Giggs or the other two > Beckham.
    this has to be a troll. Son, Beckham is was tony parker level player and even he knew it.

    Hardly. When US reached the Copa semi against Argentina, the difference in physical prowess was quite telling (and it's because their best athletes (minus Manu Ginobili) play soccer and ours' play anything but). And you're confusing speed with athleticism. Those African countries don't necessarily have any more athleticism than those you listed. And they do often lack simple intelligence, so you're right about that.
    I'll reiterate it for you, football isn't much about physical gifts. They are good but top players are top because of skills and intelligence. This isn't basketball.



    TBH you have no clue about this sport, just an objective assessment. Imo you could be somebody's troll but I'm too lazy for that game. Anyway, your takes are tbh.
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  10. #60
    Corpus Christi Spurs Fan Phenomanul's Avatar
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    So, that stat must be the basketball plus/minus equivalent in soccer. Cos Hernandez is not that much of a burner; no ing way. But if he's the Patty Mills of soccer and much faster than one would think, then maybe. Though, it's seven years later, so I doubt he's that fast any more, anyways. He's certainly not gonna pull something like this.

    He's certainly never been at this level; EVER.

    It's laughable that you are trying to equate SPEED to some esoteric advanced metric that has no sensical equivalent in soccer. SPEED is a DIRECT measurement, it cannot be faked...

    I had already conceded that generally U.S. players are stronger, faster and more powerful than Mexican footballers, but your attempt to use Javier Hernandez as the poster boy for your argument was a weak one and somewhat ironic.

    http://www.sport.co.uk/football/javi...t-player/41092

    Of course, I know you will just waive your hands and ignore your error rather than admit you are painting with a very BROAD brush.

    The Mexican National Team has made it out of the group stage in every World Cup tournament since 1994 - a feat which places them amongst the World's Top 16 teams for 23 years running. Technically, the run would be longer considering they reached the quarter-finals in 1986 and had an even stronger squad in 1990 with Hugo Sanchez at the height of his powers, but Mexico was banned from participating in the 1990 WC in Italy because over age players were used at a U20 qualifying tournament in 1988 (the Cachirules scandal). This is the primary reason why Hugo Sanchez's relation with the FMF has been forever strained. And why he is on record saying that he will NEVER forgive them for that.

    I could go on further and claim that said scandal was the primary factor that allowed the USMNT to even qualify for the 1990 WC in Italy given that they earned their qualification in the very last match - a berth that would've - given the gap at that time - gone to Mexico (had they not been banned). The worst part of it all, was that the scandal was driven by a subset of representatives in the FMF and was not condoned by the FMF at large - in other words, rogue directives working deceitfully on their own accord shamed the nation and unknowingly catalyzed the rebirth of U.S. Soccer. I once relayed this observation to Eric Wynalda, member of that 1990 U.S. Squad that played in Italy (while he was playing in F.C. León) and he just shrugged his shoulders and said, "I hadn't thought about it that way, but it's true..."

    As for your attempts to brush off Mexico's footballing hardware - you're grasping at straws. The reality is that the U.S. hasn't won anything other than Gold Cups. Zero, Nada, Nothing, Zilch... So you trying to place qualifiers to discredit Mexico's hardware comes off as nothing more than saltiness. I mean come on, how much more offensive can you get, creating a disdainful and xenophobic thread title just to belittle Mexicans? Again, it's laughable and comes off as mere saltiness. Keep celebrating your "Dos a Cero" days... and living in a fantasy land where U.S. Soccer is seen in greater light than Mexican soccer. The Mexican Primera División is arguably top 9th or 10th league in the world... the money is certainly there.

    Spanish La Liga
    German Bundesliga
    English Premier League
    Italian Serie A
    [*Top 4 leagues are interchangeable any given year]

    followed by:
    French Ligue 1
    Dutch Eredivisie
    Portuguese La Liga


    Futebol Brasileiro
    Mexican Liga MX
    Primera División de Argentina
    Turkish 1st Division
    [these 4 leagues are interchangeable any given year]

    Russian First Division
    Polish League
    Scottish Premier League
    etc...

    about 5 more leagues... then

    Major League Soccer

    Within the region you claim the U.S. is officially a "giant" in, MLS has obtained exactly 2 titles in the CONCACAF Champions League tournament. Compare that to 33 titles for Mexican League teams, 6 titles for Costa Rican teams, and 3 titles for El Salvadorian teams... MLS is tied with Trinidad and Tobago, Surinam, Guatemala and Honduras. Since the MLS was created in 1996, Mexican teams have taken the CONCACAF Champions League title 15 times (including the last 12 consecutive titles with 9 of those finals matches disputed between 2 Mexican teams). But yeah, let's all believe that strength, power, and speed are the determinant factors in producing effective or quality football. Can MLS matches be exciting? Certainly, but they aren't played at the same level as matches in Mexico.
    Last edited by Phenomanul; 08-08-2017 at 10:46 AM.
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  11. #61
    Deutschland über alles dfens's Avatar
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    It's laughable that you are trying to equate SPEED to some esoteric advanced metric that has no sensical equivalent in soccer. SPEED is a DIRECT measurement, it cannot be faked...

    I had already conceded that generally U.S. players are stronger, faster and more powerful than Mexican footballers, but your attempt to use Javier Hernandez as the poster boy for your argument was a weak one and somewhat ironic.

    http://www.sport.co.uk/football/javi...t-player/41092

    Of course, I know you will just waive your hands and ignore your error rather than admit you are painting with a very BROAD brush.

    The Mexican National Team has made it out of the group stage in every World Cup tournament since 1994 - a feat which places them amongst the World's Top 16 teams for 23 years running. Technically, the run would be longer considering they reached the quarter-finals in 1986 and had an even stronger squad in 1990 with Hugo Sanchez at the height of his powers, but Mexico was banned from participating in the 1990 WC in Italy because over age players were used at a U20 qualifying tournament in 1988 (the Cachirules scandal). This is the primary reason why Hugo Sanchez's relation with the FMF has been forever strained. And why he is on record saying that he will NEVER forgive them for that.

    I could go on further and claim that said scandal was the primary factor that allowed the USMNT to even qualify for the 1990 WC in Italy given that they earned their qualification in the very last match - a berth that would've - given the gap at that time - gone to Mexico (had they not been banned). The worst part of it all, was that the scandal was driven by a subset of representatives in the FMF and was not condoned by the FMF at large - in other words, rogue directives working deceitfully on their own accord shamed the nation and unknowingly catalyzed the rebirth of U.S. Soccer. I once relayed this observation to Eric Wynalda, member of that 1990 U.S. Squad that played in Italy (while he was playing in F.C. León) and he just shrugged his shoulders and said, "I hadn't thought about it that way, but it's true..."

    As for your attempts to brush off Mexico's footballing hardware - you're grasping at straws. The reality is that the U.S. hasn't won anything other than Gold Cups. Zero, Nada, Nothing, Zilch... So you trying to place qualifiers to discredit Mexico's hardware comes off as nothing more than saltiness. I mean come on, how much more offensive can you get, creating a disdainful and xenophobic thread title just to belittle Mexicans? Again, it's laughable and comes off as mere saltiness. Keep celebrating your "Dos a Cero" days... and living in a fantasy land where U.S. Soccer is seen in greater light than Mexican soccer. The Mexican Primera División is arguably top 9th or 10th league in the world... the money is certainly there.

    Spanish La Liga
    German Bundesliga
    English Premier League
    Italian Serie A
    [*Top 4 leagues are interchangeable any given year]

    followed by:
    French Ligue 1
    Dutch Eredivisie
    Portuguese La Liga


    Futebol Brasileiro
    Mexican Liga MX
    Primera División de Argentina
    Turkish 1st Division
    [these 4 leagues are interchangeable any given year]

    Russian First Division
    Polish League
    Scottish Premier League
    etc...

    about 5 more leagues... then

    Major League Soccer

    Within the region you claim the U.S. is officially a "giant" in, MLS has obtained exactly 2 titles in the CONCACAF Champions League tournament. Compare that to 33 titles for Mexican League teams, 6 titles for Costa Rican teams, and 3 titles for El Salvadorian teams... MLS is tied with Trinidad and Tobago, Surinam, Guatemala and Honduras. Since the MLS was created in 1996, Mexican teams have taken the CONCACAF Champions League title 15 times (including the last 12 consecutive titles with 9 of those finals matches disputed between 2 Mexican teams). But yeah, let's all believe that strength, power, and speed are the determinant factors in producing effective or quality football. Can MLS matches be exciting? Certainly, but they aren't played at the same level as matches in Mexico.
    son I agree with your post but the russian first division has a LOT of talent, because of soviet petrodollars. Skt Petersburg, Spartak, Lokomotiv, Kazan are all strong teams and they do decent in the UCL and Europa League. They are at portuguese/dutch level as a league.

  12. #62
    Corpus Christi Spurs Fan Phenomanul's Avatar
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    son I agree with your post but the russian first division has a LOT of talent, because of soviet petrodollars. Skt Petersburg, Spartak, Lokomotiv, Kazan are all strong teams and they do decent in the UCL and Europa League. They are at portuguese/dutch level as a league.
    Fair enough... I had the chance to see a match between Skt Petersburg and CSKA Moscow at Moscow... it was entertaining but I couldn't focus enough just from trying to keep warm... the match was in November.
    Last edited by Phenomanul; 08-08-2017 at 03:51 PM.

  13. #63
    Deutschland über alles dfens's Avatar
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    Fair enough... I had the chance to see a match between Skt Petersburg and CSKA Moscow at Moscow... it was entertaining but I couldn't focus enough just trying to keep warm... the match was is November.
    nice.

    Tbh you reminded me of a funny trip to Russia, in an industrial city (Ufa, near Urals, it's quite big) late February some years ago, when I was visiting a production site ... some of the s working there were coming to work on bikes at -30 degrees quote: "January was cold but right now it's warming up a bit"

  14. #64
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    It's laughable that you are trying to equate SPEED to some esoteric advanced metric that has no sensical equivalent in soccer. SPEED is a DIRECT measurement, it cannot be faked...
    Apparently, it can if you're trying to tell me that Javier Hernandez was basically the fastest player in the world at one point.

  15. #65
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    The Mexican National Team has made it out of the group stage in every World Cup tournament since 1994 - a feat which places them amongst the World's Top 16 teams for 23 years running.
    Soft groups has facilitated that, imo. As for the US in that same span, they pretty much got the treatment in 06 the wake of Iraq War. And in 98, their disharmony is comparable to France in 2010. It wasn't a lack of talent though, imo.

  16. #66
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    Technically, the run would be longer considering they reached the quarter-finals in 1986 and had an even stronger squad in 1990 with Hugo Sanchez at the height of his powers, but Mexico was banned from participating in the 1990 WC in Italy because over age players were used at a U20 qualifying tournament in 1988 (the Cachirules scandal). This is the primary reason why Hugo Sanchez's relation with the FMF has been forever strained. And why he is on record saying that he will NEVER forgive them for that.

    I could go on further and claim that said scandal was the primary factor that allowed the USMNT to even qualify for the 1990 WC in Italy given that they earned their qualification in the very last match - a berth that would've - given the gap at that time - gone to Mexico (had they not been banned). The worst part of it all, was that the scandal was driven by a subset of representatives in the FMF and was not condoned by the FMF at large - in other words, rogue directives working deceitfully on their own accord shamed the nation and unknowingly catalyzed the rebirth of U.S. Soccer. I once relayed this observation to Eric Wynalda, member of that 1990 U.S. Squad that played in Italy (while he was playing in F.C. León) and he just shrugged his shoulders and said, "I hadn't thought about it that way, but it's true..."
    If that actually occurred, I would tell you that EW is no dummy and that he had thought of it that way. Hell, I was a bit young at the time, but even I had thought about it that way. But as for Mexico missing out on the 90 WC cos of the cheating, I have a hard time seeing them as victims when their offense was pretty egregious. For what it's worth, they weren't going to win that WC and the birth of US Soccer is most certainly in their interest. Some fans will understandably miss their days of yore.

  17. #67
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    everybody loses badly once in a while, it's just one game vs decades of consistent work. You think brasil are done because 7-1, these s will bounce back.
    Can't think of a more embarrassing loss in international soccer history, tbh. Sure, they'll bounce back at some point; but we'll see how bad this is for their psyche all the same.

  18. #68
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    Euroball about bigger stronger faster you've been a football fan for what, 2 whole years? nobody can take you seriously after such a transgression tbh
    The best athletes are being paid to play for Euro clubs; this is no secret.

  19. #69
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    Son, Beckham is was tony parker level player and even he knew it.
    Parker wishes he hit that level. Becks was the highest paid player more than once.

  20. #70
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    US moving up in the rankings; so, does strawberry pickers.

    https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/us...ankings-august

  21. #71
    Deutschland über alles dfens's Avatar
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    The best athletes are being paid to play for Euro clubs; this is no secret.
    yet missi, iniesta, silva, veratti, koke, griezmann, etc are the top players, not the pogba or lukaku monkeyballers... give me a break, football isn't about running fast or jumping high, look at your last 3 world champ squads, the key players were never athletes.

    the best athletes are paid to play in england and france where kickball and monkeyball is appreciated, sure enough these federations had superb success both at the UCL and NT level

  22. #72
    4X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    yet missi, iniesta, silva, veratti, koke, griezmann, etc are the top players, not the pogba or lukaku monkeyballers... give me a break, football isn't about running fast or jumping high, look at your last 3 world champ squads, the key players were never athletes.

    the best athletes are paid to play in england and france where kickball and monkeyball is appreciated, sure enough these federations had superb success both at the UCL and NT level
    You're sort of debating in the margins. Athleticism is highly important regardless of your efforts to downplay it. Sure, you can rank skill, intelligence, etc up there, too. But the most disciplined, most schooled MLS team won't be in the stratosphere of the Euro clubs until better athletes start coming to the league.

  23. #73
    Deutschland über alles dfens's Avatar
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    You're sort of debating in the margins. Athleticism is highly important regardless of your efforts to downplay it. Sure, you can rank skill, intelligence, etc up there, too. But the most disciplined, most schooled MLS team won't be in the stratosphere of the Euro clubs until better athletes start coming to the league.
    you are extremely far from reality. MLS totally lacks discipine and skill, the large disparity isn't in athleticism but in skill, positioning, the game without the ball, organisation, discipline and coaching.

    a team of messi, modric, higuain, benzema, iniesta, masquerano, chiellini, veratti, koke, etc would rape the entirety of europe and they'd physically look like a fit sunday league team . Besides direction changing athleticism is extremely unimportant in football, positioning is ten times more relevant, so is skill (ball control, passing, knowing when to move, fake runs) and so is the ability to work as a team. Look at all the athletes at manchester united, besides being athletic as they are also skilled and talented but they have done all because they use that skill at a primitive level, many times playing a variant of kick ball.

    Germany are world champs yet france / brasil / england / belgium / netherlands have athletically MUCH MORE talented teams (many players look like ing track stars out there), still we are CONSISTENTLY better.
    Spain went euro - world cup -euro with a team looking like the backstreet boys.
    Barcelona destroyed the cream of Europe with missi/xavi/iniesta/mascherano/bisquits/pique/etc ... all athletic monsters
    See a pattern?

    Lol at thinking MLS lacks athleticism. MLS should heavily invest in training for positioning, skill and teamwork, but it won't do that because the resulting game doesn't sell to the ADHD "bust a net under a minute" american public. The only reason for which US had any results in football IS athleticism.

  24. #74
    65 tons of American pride Canyonero's Avatar
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    MLS is unwatchable imo.
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  25. #75
    Deutschland über alles dfens's Avatar
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    MLS is unwatchable imo.
    MLS is unwatchable.

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