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  1. #26
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    Whenever I mention anything about robots taking jobs to people in real life, they kind of nod their head and move on to another subject. Like I'm crazy or something.
    And while it's starting to get a little press, I think this is one of the major stories of the next 10+ years.

    Gonna put a lot of people out of work. Most of the low and mid end service industry. Most factory jobs and drivers. And pretty soon, plenty of white collar jobs will be obsolete. Not many industries will be immune to having robots or AI systems replace workers.

    And yet there's not much press on how society is going to move forward at that point.
    Robots are good at repe ive and precise type of labor.

    They suck at analyzing fairly common situations that humans see easily, and then carrying out a job. Get them to dust and clean my house. Get them remove a sidewalk while missing the trees and houses around them. You will find the robot has a human operator, the human does not need extraordinary programming to do mundane yet complex visual analyzing and then proceeding in the proper sequence. Our surroundings are going to have to become very simple for simple repe ive, precise procedures. they can't even farm that great. There are still a whole lot of humans riding in machines farming. Farming has much fewer visual problems compared to cleaning a unique house. Damn bots... What's the holdup George Jetson, your boy Elroy has no space car?
    Last edited by pgardn; 12-06-2017 at 08:29 PM.

  2. #27
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    A robotic fast food place would be cool. Super fast and employees don’t up your order.

  3. #28
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    Robots are good at repe ive and precise type of labor.

    They suck at analyzing fairly common situations that humans see easily, and then carrying out a job. Get them to dust and clean my house. Get them remove a sidewalk while missing the trees and houses around them. You will find the robot has a human operator, the human does need extraordinary programming to do mundane yet complex visual analyzing and then proceeding in the proper sequence. Our surroundings are going to have to become very simple for simple repe ive, precise procedures. they can't even farm that great. There are still a whole lot of humans riding in machines farming. Farming has much fewer visual problems compared to cleaning a unique house. Damn bots... What's the holdup George Jetson, your boy Elroy has no space car?
    Robots are just a part of it - the mechanical side. Machine Learning will replace most of the analytical side. All that data that Google has access to and mines - your photos, your emails, your preference, your searches - of millions of people - they are being used in machine learning. These machines can now beat humans at chess, jeorpardy, poker.

    Open letter on Artificial Intelligence - signed by Stephen Hawkins, Elon Musk and others

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_L...l_Intelligence

    And what happens if they merge the mechanical with analytical side to make an army - deadly accuracy, inhuman strength, unfailing stamina:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_takeover

    Elon Musk believes in this - Gates, Zuckerberg, Google's AI head don't.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/25/bill...about-a-i.html

  4. #29
    ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) AaronY's Avatar
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  5. #30
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    Robots are just a part of it - the mechanical side. Machine Learning will replace most of the analytical side. All that data that Google has access to and mines - your photos, your emails, your preference, your searches - of millions of people - they are being used in machine learning. These machines can now beat humans at chess, jeorpardy, poker.

    Open letter on Artificial Intelligence - signed by Stephen Hawkins, Elon Musk and others

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_L...l_Intelligence

    And what happens if they merge the mechanical with analytical side to make an army - deadly accuracy, inhuman strength, unfailing stamina:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_takeover

    Elon Musk believes in this - Gates, Zuckerberg, Google's AI head don't.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/25/bill...about-a-i.html
    Okay. I say we are way off on where this leads us.

    And that mechanical side is a huge problem. Make a robot that can play a classical piece on a piano as well as a human to a human ear. The subtle movement of a hand and fingers requiring exact visual placement and pressure is a huge difficulty. We have not come close to this from an engineering perspective, not even close. Using a glove on a human hand to be analyzed for exact movements and then repeated is more than a software problem. And I could add a bunch to this section.

    Reading the progress and noticing some things on my own I am ready to strongly state that we are a long way off with both the mechanical side and AI side.

    AI side: We have taken the chess/go beating human games events way too far and in the wrong direction IMO. Just in the very way humans read data, something that should be very easy for a good program, is very difficult because as it turns out humans take fairly unique algorithms in their heads to spot things computers never would. Computers are good at taking huge data sets and finding things we cant. But it definitely works the other way as well. AI has not yet come close to the strange and novel way a human brain works because it involves some very random scattershot approaches that really can't be mimicked IMO.

    The way I think about AI.

    Is have a programmer write a Von Nueman machine/program that the human programmer is unable to figure out. In other words, the programmer can't tell if his own program is a human or computer while asking questions and receiving answers. Not even close to being accomplished. A good asker of questions can pick out someone else's program quite easily. So how does the human who has expertise in question asking come up with the questions and analysis? Can we write that software? No way right now, not even close. This is not to take away from some of the incredible things AI came up with that we would have never predicted.

    So im saying this is a Jetson belief. No flying cars. This is one thing humans are going overboard on IMO about how AI can help us. It's taking a different path than we ourselves predicted. And this is not surprising. We program the the things when we still are in the infancy of even beginning to understand how unique, weird and random human thinking is.

  6. #31
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    BigRobot

  7. #32
    Veteran SpursforSix's Avatar
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    Robots are good at repe ive and precise type of labor.

    They suck at analyzing fairly common situations that humans see easily, and then carrying out a job. Get them to dust and clean my house. Get them remove a sidewalk while missing the trees and houses around them. You will find the robot has a human operator, the human does need extraordinary programming to do mundane yet complex visual analyzing and then proceeding in the proper sequence. Our surroundings are going to have to become very simple for simple repe ive, precise procedures. they can't even farm that great. There are still a whole lot of humans riding in machines farming. Farming has much fewer visual problems compared to cleaning a unique house. Damn bots... What's the holdup George Jetson, your boy Elroy has no space car?
    Sure...there are plenty of jobs that a robot can't do as well as a human (for now). But still, you're talking about some humans keeping some jobs. But for manufacturing, driving, standard service (particularly fast food)...it's going to result in a massive loss of jobs to people. And over time, they'll figure out the more complicated things like...lol...farming and housekeeping.

    And what's going to be the going rate for a housekeeper when all of a sudden you have hundreds of thousands of people competing for that job?

    And there will certainty be a point where nanobots are able to enter a human body and do operations that currently require a surgeon, three nurses, and an anesthesiologist.

  8. #33
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Whenever I mention anything about robots taking jobs to people in real life, they kind of nod their head and move on to another subject. Like I'm crazy or something.
    And while it's starting to get a little press, I think this is one of the major stories of the next 10+ years.

    Gonna put a lot of people out of work. Most of the low and mid end service industry. Most factory jobs and drivers. And pretty soon, plenty of white collar jobs will be obsolete. Not many industries will be immune to having robots or AI systems replace workers.

    And yet there's not much press on how society is going to move forward at that point.
    Pretty much what I teach my kids.

    They will have to wrestle with the ethical and moral implications of artificial intelligence, and the fact that so many jobs are being automated.

  9. #34
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
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    Okay. I say we are way off on where this leads us.

    And that mechanical side is a huge problem. Make a robot that can play a classical piece on a piano as well as a human to a human ear. The subtle movement of a hand and fingers requiring exact visual placement and pressure is a huge difficulty. We have not come close to this from an engineering perspective, not even close. Using a glove on a human hand to be analyzed for exact movements and then repeated is more than a software problem. And I could add a bunch to this section.

    Reading the progress and noticing some things on my own I am ready to strongly state that we are a long way off with both the mechanical side and AI side.

    AI side: We have taken the chess/go beating human games events way too far and in the wrong direction IMO. Just in the very way humans read data, something that should be very easy for a good program, is very difficult because as it turns out humans take fairly unique algorithms in their heads to spot things computers never would. Computers are good at taking huge data sets and finding things we cant. But it definitely works the other way as well. AI has not yet come close to the strange and novel way a human brain works because it involves some very random scattershot approaches that really can't be mimicked IMO.

    The way I think about AI.

    Is have a programmer write a Von Nueman machine/program that the human programmer is unable to figure out. In other words, the programmer can't tell if his own program is a human or computer while asking questions and receiving answers. Not even close to being accomplished. A good asker of questions can pick out someone else's program quite easily. So how does the human who has expertise in question asking come up with the questions and analysis? Can we write that software? No way right now, not even close. This is not to take away from some of the incredible things AI came up with that we would have never predicted.

    So im saying this is a Jetson belief. No flying cars. This is one thing humans are going overboard on IMO about how AI can help us. It's taking a different path than we ourselves predicted. And this is not surprising. We program the the things when we still are in the infancy of even beginning to understand how unique, weird and random human thinking is.
    this. not to mention the fact that american companies have backed off on investing in machinery and software and are nowhere near the clip they were investing at thirty years ago. also, cheap labor is still cheaper than automated labor (as long as wages remain as low as they are that is). besides, even if automated machinery became a major part of the work force it is not as if technology has not been a part of the process for over a century now. yet the labor force evolves and sometimes new jobs result from the evolution of the workplace.

  10. #35
    Veteran SpursforSix's Avatar
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    this. not to mention the fact that american companies have backed off on investing in machinery and software and are nowhere near the clip they were investing at thirty years ago. also, cheap labor is still cheaper than automated labor (as long as wages remain as low as they are that is). besides, even if automated machinery became a major part of the work force it is not as if technology has not been a part of the process for over a century now. yet the labor force evolves and sometimes new jobs result from the evolution of the workplace.
    LOL. Great argument.

  11. #36
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    Someone has to clean the robot toilets

  12. #37
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    Someone has to clean the robot toilets
    Mexicans.

  13. #38
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    LOL. Great argument.
    This is cool stuff to think about and debate methinks.

    There are AI people who could present some novel things about the way computers have solved problems that the programmers would never have predicted. It's still very worthy stuff. It's just when I encounter the inability of voice recognition software and I guess hardware in voice recognition it gives me more of an understanding how complex human speech is for instance. And when the system "talks back"... I like to make fun of it. Just getting speakers and software to mimic human speech is very difficult. The subtle movements of vocal chords is also apparently an engineering nightmare. Yet we can get robots to balance pencils better than any human could.

    Alexa can't tell me she is sorry I have a cold and say she hopes I feel better after listening to me. Extraordinary stuff in some areas, extremely lacking in others.

  14. #39
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    this. not to mention the fact that american companies have backed off on investing in machinery and software and are nowhere near the clip they were investing at thirty years ago. also, cheap labor is still cheaper than automated labor (as long as wages remain as low as they are that is). besides, even if automated machinery became a major part of the work force it is not as if technology has not been a part of the process for over a century now. yet the labor force evolves and sometimes new jobs result from the evolution of the workplace.
    Did not know this.

    We have problems getting some stuff done that we thought would be very easy. So it's not surprising. I just did not know that some numbers had illustrated this. And I can see big holes righ now that need to be filled with human thinkers in biology/biochem because kids wanna be doctors.

  15. #40
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    Human error posting.

    N/M

  16. #41
    LMAO koriwhat's Avatar
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    the oligarchy billionaires are dead set on killing K-12 and denying access to higher ed, while their families can and will pay cash for the very best private education
    Alex jones you reading this ish?

  17. #42
    LMAO koriwhat's Avatar
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    the oligarchy billionaires are dead set on killing K-12 and denying access to higher ed, while their families can and will pay cash for the very best private education
    Alex jones you reading this ish?

  18. #43
    Veteran SpursforSix's Avatar
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    It's still hard for me to believe the lack of discussion on what robots and AI will do the workforce. Either no one gives a or thinks we'll just figure it out.

  19. #44
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    A robotic fast food place would be cool. Super fast and employees don’t up your order.

  20. #45
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    It's still hard for me to believe the lack of discussion on what robots and AI will do the workforce. Either no one gives a or thinks we'll just figure it out.
    What jobs are left for robots to take over?

  21. #46
    Veteran SpursforSix's Avatar
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    10854230[/URL]]What jobs are left for robots to take over?
    In the long run, I don’t think any jobs are safe. What jobs do you think robots and AI can’t eventually do?

  22. #47
    Veteran SpursforSix's Avatar
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    Thats so hot.

  23. #48
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    In the long run, I don’t think any jobs are safe. What jobs do you think robots and AI can’t eventually do?
    I don't think I want to watch the Spurs draft Wall E at point guard. Or watch a new Terminator movie starring a real Terminator.

    I also like talking to a human over the phone when taking care of business.

    Currently, I'm not sure what high demand jobs I'm scared of humans losing out to robots on. You have any in mind?

  24. #49
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    In the long run, I don’t think any jobs are safe. What jobs do you think robots and AI can’t eventually do?
    imo we destroy ourselves first.
    So maybe robots doing jobs for out of work robots.
    We have done a fine job of poisoning the water air and land, don’t see why this should not continue. It’s a lot easier. Especially during wars.

  25. #50
    Against Home Schooling Ef-man's Avatar
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    Eh, this may have already been posted but AI is overrated.


    The Marines Once Beat AI Detection By Hiding In Cardboard Boxes, Evoking 'Metal Gear' Memes

    http://knowyourmeme.com/marines-beat...-cardboard-box

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