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  1. #151
    Realistic Spurs Fan Amuseddaysleeper's Avatar
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    Federer's H2H record vs Nadal is brutal. But he's still #1 all time.


    Also, so happy to see Djokovic back in a grand slam final.

  2. #152
    Realistic Spurs Fan Amuseddaysleeper's Avatar
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    *straight face* Djoker isnít a top 5 player.

    Was it a good game? Sure. But ranking based on one game is like saying Michael Adams is one of the goats because he scored 56 in a game.


    The ?!? He's at least top 3, and if he hadn't fallen off a cliff in the last 2 years or so he was on his way to being #1 all time. He was on pace to break Federer's all time GS record against stiffer compe ion.

    I don't think he'll do it now, I don't even know if Wimbledon is just a fluke but it feels like this is the best tennis he has played in a long long time.

    I think if he keeps up this level of play he can retire with 15 or 16 slams at the most.

  3. #153
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    Yeah that's just perfectly normal tbh
    Even if they are on super PEDs, you'd have to assume all the young guns are on these PEDs, too. I said above that I think the problem might be that many of the younger players on tour are 6'5" lanky s who rely more on athleticism (the power part of athleticism) and size than skills (so I've read on a tennis forum). The Big 3 are all under 6'3".

  4. #154
    Klaw apalisoc_9's Avatar
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    Yeah that's just perfectly normal tbh
    No doubt these guys are on PED.

    Dont think that was ever a question.

  5. #155
    Klaw apalisoc_9's Avatar
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    Fed playing like hes 29 at 40

  6. #156
    Believe. Down Under's Avatar
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    Federer's gotta have the worst body for someone who's juicing I've seen

  7. #157
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    So you think thats the only criteria?

    The man is on his way to win 13 grandslams in the Nadal and Fed era. He is the third greatest of all time.
    Thanks for among the point heís the third greatest in this era.

  8. #158
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    The ?!? He's at least top 3, and if he hadn't fallen off a cliff in the last 2 years or so he was on his way to being #1 all time. He was on pace to break Federer's all time GS record against stiffer compe ion.

    I don't think he'll do it now, I don't even know if Wimbledon is just a fluke but it feels like this is the best tennis he has played in a long long time.

    I think if he keeps up this level of play he can retire with 15 or 16 slams at the most.
    Ivanesic on his only grand slam at 30. Sure he was on his way up then.

  9. #159
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Feds gonna end his career with 20+
    Nadal is gonna end up with 20+
    Djoker is gonna end up with 16+

    And the Old geezers. " but my sampras is my hero"


    No Era have seen three 15+ Grand Slam winner play all together. Can you imagine djoker without fed and nadal. Dude would have 25+ Grand slams by now. Scary stuff.

    Not to mention guys like Murray also winning multiple grand slams.
    Wilt averaged 50.4 ppg back in the day and russell won 11. They must be the GOATs. young kids thinking Lebron is my hero .

  10. #160
    Klaw apalisoc_9's Avatar
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    Wilt averaged 50.4 ppg back in the day and russell won 11. They must be the GOATs. young kids thinking Lebron is my hero .
    Go be old somrwhere.

  11. #161
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Go be old somrwhere.
    To be ignorant somewhere.

    today’s tennis players are all goats because they won so many grand slams
    yesterday’s nba players all suck despite putting up ungodly numbers because their compe ion sucks

    Pick a lane ignoramus.

  12. #162
    Klaw apalisoc_9's Avatar
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    Diaper old man actually thinks tennis had a backwards evolution

  13. #163
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Diaper old man actually thinks tennis had a backwards evolution
    35 year "young" -take master doesn't understand what consistency means.

  14. #164
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    This is the epitome of modern tennis dominating older tennis:



    Grand slam final. So none of the "this guy was way past his prime, or that dude was still a puppy" excuse (in fact, Sampras beat Safin on the US open semifinal of the following year).

    I'm not saying Safin is better than Sampras, I'm not saying Safin at his best beats Sampras at his best. All I'm saying is that a guy like Safin was pretty ing compe ive and he could go toe to toe against a guy like Sampras to the point of having a winning record against him (4 W's - 3 L's) Yet, when it came to Federer, he could only win 2 of 12 matches.

    So, how come against Sampras, Safin could be compe ive; but against Federer, he could not? Well, maybe because Federer was just more dominant than Sampras. And the same goes to guys like Nadal and Djokovic.

  15. #165
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    This is the epitome of modern tennis dominating older tennis:



    Grand slam final. So none of the "this guy was way past his prime, or that dude was still a puppy" excuse (in fact, Sampras beat Safin on the US open semifinal of the following year).

    I'm not saying Safin is better than Sampras, I'm not saying Safin at his best beats Sampras at his best. All I'm saying is that a guy like Safin was pretty ing compe ive and he could go toe to toe against a guy like Sampras to the point of having a winning record against him (4 W's - 3 L's) Yet, when it came to Federer, he could only win 2 of 12 matches.

    So, how come against Sampras, Safin could be compe ive; but against Federer, he could not? Well, maybe because Federer was just more dominant than Sampras. And the same goes to guys like Nadal and Djokovic.
    I think you're still missing the essential point. And you're still comparing players in a vacuum (unfair to past era players. There's a 9 year difference in ages between Sampras and Safrin. That was a huge difference then). We all know the "next generation" in any sport will likely introduce cutting edge techniques, many times play with more advanced equipment, and been reared under more effective training techniques, leaving the old guard to evolve or die, and they're usually too past their prime to really "evolve." The peculiar thing about today's tennis is where is the 20 year old Safrin on tour taking apart one of the old guard like he took Pete apart in that video? We're not even getting a hint of "the next generation." It's still the same old story every major.


    There's no logical way to compare players across eras. You can't even say, "Well, I watched both [insert players] at 24, and player X is just far better," because player X will likely be a more current player who had training, knowledge, and equipment advantages player Y didn't. Basketball example. Is Curry a better player than Larry Bird in a vacuum? I think so. Do I think Curry becomes an all-time great if he were born in Bum , Indiana in the late 50s and learned to shoot in his driveway? No. The best way is just to rank by era. NBA has the Russell, Kareem, Magic/Bird, Jordan, Duncan, Lebron eras, for example.

  16. #166
    Klaw apalisoc_9's Avatar
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    I think you're still missing the essential point. And you're still comparing players in a vacuum (unfair to past era players. There's a 9 year difference in ages between Sampras and Safrin. That was a huge difference then). We all know the "next generation" in any sport will likely introduce cutting edge techniques, many times play with more advanced equipment, and been reared under more effective training techniques, leaving the old guard to evolve or die, and they're usually too past their prime to really "evolve." The peculiar thing about today's tennis is where is the 20 year old Safrin on tour taking apart one of the old guard like he took Pete apart in that video? We're not even getting a hint of "the next generation." It's still the same old story every major.


    There's no logical way to compare players across eras. You can't even say, "Well, I watched both [insert players] at 24, and player X is just far better," because player X will likely be a more current player who had training, knowledge, and equipment advantages player Y didn't. Basketball example. Is Curry a better player than Larry Bird in a vacuum? I think so. Do I think Curry becomes an all-time great if he were born in Bum , Indiana in the late 50s and learned to shoot in his driveway? No. The best way is just to rank by era. NBA has the Russell, Kareem, Magic/Bird, Jordan, Duncan, Lebron eras, for example.
    you just admitted you dont even watch tennis.

    The difference between 80-90s tennis vs the Nadal/Djoker/Fed trio is very significant. Its like 80s ball vs 2014 Spurs ball.

    The PED obviously helps but more importantly the increased in skill level.

    Lets not forget that this generation also have Andy Murray, Stan Wawarinka..both these two would have gave sampras a run for his money and would most likely win 10+ slams in the 90s.

  17. #167
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    you just admitted you dont even watch tennis.

    The difference between 80-90s tennis vs the Nadal/Djoker/Fed trio is very significant. Its like 80s ball vs 2014 Spurs ball.

    The PED obviously helps but more importantly the increased in skill level.

    Lets not forget that this generation also have Andy Murray, Stan Wawarinka..both these two would have gave sampras a run for his money and would most likely win 10+ slams in the 90s.
    Did you even read what I said? My point doesn't need me to watch anything. I know a sport will "evolve" over a decade or so, so yes, an 80's tennis great has little chance of competing today. My problem with these "vacuum" arguments is that it unfairly punishes older players for when they were born. Federer, Nadal, etc didn't spring fully formed from the head of Zeus. We don't know how good Nadal would be if were born in 1970. We don't know how good Bjorg would be if he were born in 1985. Training, knowledge, technique improves every decade, so to unequivocally state a modern player is better is illogical, since the older player didn't have any of the advantages a modern player has to fully reach his potential. Larry Bird learned to shoot in his driveway. A modern player when he's young learns to shoot at a "training complex," with professional instructors at his side. I'm not punishing Bird in comparison.

  18. #168
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    I think you're still missing the essential point. And you're still comparing players in a vacuum (unfair to past era players. There's a 9 year difference in ages between Sampras and Safrin. That was a huge difference then). We all know the "next generation" in any sport will likely introduce cutting edge techniques, many times play with more advanced equipment, and been reared under more effective training techniques, leaving the old guard to evolve or die, and they're usually too past their prime to really "evolve." The peculiar thing about today's tennis is where is the 20 year old Safrin on tour taking apart one of the old guard like he took Pete apart in that video? We're not even getting a hint of "the next generation." It's still the same old story every major.
    Djokovic, Murray and Del Potro, all were doing damage at that age. Right now, I already told you about the number 3 player in the World, Sverev. And maybe, the reason oung folks aren't taking nthe big guys apart, is because the current big guys aren't as easy to take apart as previous big guys.

    There's no logical way to compare players across eras. You can't even say, "Well, I watched both [insert players] at 24, and player X is just far better," because player X will likely be a more current player who had training, knowledge, and equipment advantages player Y didn't. Basketball example. Is Curry a better player than Larry Bird in a vacuum? I think so. Do I think Curry becomes an all-time great if he were born in Bum , Indiana in the late 50s and learned to shoot in his driveway? No. The best way is just to rank by era. NBA has the Russell, Kareem, Magic/Bird, Jordan, Duncan, Lebron eras, for example.
    I agree with that, It's unfair to compare players of today, with players of previous eras. But that's not what we're arguing right now. ambchang says that the compe ion is weaker now, than in previous eras, that's just not true.

  19. #169
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    It is relative to the age. The proof is players dominating the game in the mid 30/.

  20. #170
    Manu Mania lefty20's Avatar
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    Cilic & De Minaur putting on a great show late night.

  21. #171
    Veteran Arcadian's Avatar
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    He'll need 5 sets to dispatch with Millman if he's going to pull it off.

  22. #172
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Roger might finally be done sons.

  23. #173
    Manu Mania lefty20's Avatar
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    Very unusual performance by Roger. Missed way too many routine(for him) putaways and, to his credit, Millman gave him absolutely nothing for free.

  24. #174
    5X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    Forgot to watch the match. Too bad about Fed. He'll probably win the next Wimbledon though.

  25. #175
    Veteran Arcadian's Avatar
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    Thiem is on fire!

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