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  1. #51
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    The reason we have a "crisis" right now is because for years MDs have been going ape prescribing narcs to anybody who cried loud enough without adequately exploring other options. Now that said docs are shackled as far as how many narcs they can order, people are hitting the streets for their fix. Chronic pain is a real thing, I'm not discounting that. But doctors have been irresponsible for too long with the meds simply because it's the easiest solution. Same thing with the elderly population and benzos. Grandma a little confused/difficult to deal with? Pop her some Xanax or Ativan. Problem solved.
    Yeah the Doc who prescribed Vicodin is the irresponsible one not the patient who decided to crush them up and snort them to get high.

  2. #52
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    There are well known stresses and the like that cause people to use drugs. While it, cut them off is the preferred method of brotherkiller, there have been places like Switzerland and Holland in Europe where they decriminalized and treated the problem. Deaths and usage plummeted.

    This of course will never work for the Levites and other Puritans but its there just the same.

  3. #53
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    There are well known stresses and the like that cause people to use drugs. While it, cut them off is the preferred method of brotherkiller, there have been places like Switzerland and Holland in Europe where they decriminalized and treated the problem. Deaths and usage plummeted.

    This of course will never work for the Levites and other Puritans but its there just the same.
    Read the first post, bag.

  4. #54
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    Yeah the Doc who prescribed Vicodin is the irresponsible one not the patient who decided to crush them up and snort them to get high.
    I'm not talking about the handful of people who were prescribed ten days worth of Norco for a tooth abscess or after an appendectomy and decide to swallow the entire bottle with a swig of Jack. I'm talking about the people who have been on the stuff for 15 years that originally got their narcs five doctors ago and nobody since has followed up as to why we are ordering the stuff other than "I need it". Now after decades of addiction these folks are required to see pain specialists and their meds are getting limited, so they're looking for other sources.

  5. #55
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    And I'm not trying to shame people with chronic pain, there are people who require high doses of meds just to function. But the fact remains that many have abused the system for a long time. And doctors (and nurses) aren't interested in listening to people whine, they're too ing busy. If you can order a pill to make people happy, that's what a lot of docs will do.

  6. #56
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    If we really decided to look at the problems the drug ethanol (alcohol) causes it would also be informative. Obviously prohibition won't work, but the lack of research on people that are unusually addicted needs to be done.
    Just take a look at the history of Irish Catholic women having to endure endless beatings from husbands with no chance of divorce. Half of Russia is drunk at 9 pm ( their 5 to 7 time zones) In the US so many family problems directly connected to alcohol.

    Its crazy pot is illegal and alcohol makes you a man. "Take your first slug, son"

    CH3CH2OH kills. They need to print that on bottles and cans.

    Actually, we need to refine tests that tell us which drugs individuals can't "handle" (addicted to), it's a a HUGE problem. The variation among human ability to "handle" different drugs is real. There are methods of testing this now. There is research being done that politicians barely touch. But They won't touch what it could be used for. You get asked on a Doctor's form what you "react" or are "allergic" to? There are very likely ways to do this as easy as immunology allergy tests.

    I am continually baffled by our criminal stubbornness not to address drug testing beyond, "is it in you?" and let drugs that are socially acceptable go, except while driving. So is Law Enforcement.

    Terminate Rant.

  7. #57
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    And I'm not trying to shame people with chronic pain, there are people who require high doses of meds just to function. But the fact remains that many have abused the system for a long time. And doctors (and nurses) aren't interested in listening to people whine, they're too ing busy. If you can order a pill to make people happy, that's what a lot of docs will do.
    Yeah pretty much.

    But medical docs tend to get a God syndrome as well.

  8. #58
    Veteran SpursforSix's Avatar
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    You are worried about what Tylenol does to the liver?

    But you are/were buying and selling Coke and then snorting the blow?

    Something is amiss here.
    Alcohol is not good for the liver either. So you were like just eating Tylenol?

    SF6 old buddy... You go to a restaurant and order Diet Coke to drink then order pure lard glazed with sugar to eat?
    I was doing the coke when I was much younger. Didn't think about much of anything.

    Drinking while taking Tylenol can kill you dead on the spot. Even taking too much Tylenol by itself.

  9. #59
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Maybe its time to just acknowledge that there is a certain percentage of the population that is going to be ups. Whats killing these dumbasses is the dealers guessing on the fentanyl cut, and all these dumbasses want the heroin/fentanyl mix for the buzz. Maybe they should take that six ing billion dollars they just appropriated for "opiod abuse" and just give these idiots accurately cut single use syringes. That would eliminate virtually all the accidental ODs from hot loads.
    You would fit right in with the "task force" of political hacks being put together.

    How are you going to help all the people addicted to prescription painkillers?

  10. #60
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    The reason we have a "crisis" right now is because for years MDs have been going ape prescribing narcs to anybody who cried loud enough without adequately exploring other options. Now that said docs are shackled as far as how many narcs they can order, people are hitting the streets for their fix. Chronic pain is a real thing, I'm not discounting that. But doctors have been irresponsible for too long with the meds simply because it's the easiest solution. Same thing with the elderly population and benzos. Grandma a little confused/difficult to deal with? Pop her some Xanax or Ativan. Problem solved.
    1) Doctors were relying on bad information ("prescription stuff isn't really that addictive", based on a single letter put out in a journal years ago.
    2) Drug companies marketed the out of it.

    Plenty of blame to go around, but if you want to see why this got so bad, look to the profit motive.

  11. #61
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    Should Target health insurance/Obama Care tbh if that's your train of thought........ Keep em coming back for more bank.
    ACA has all to do with opioid crisis
    Last edited by boutons_deux; 02-13-2018 at 11:18 AM.

  12. #62
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    You would fit right in with the "task force" of political hacks being put together.

    How are you going to help all the people addicted to prescription painkillers?
    Easy. Dont with their prescriptions.

  13. #63
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    I was doing the coke when I was much younger. Didn't think about much of anything.

    Drinking while taking Tylenol can kill you dead on the spot. Even taking too much Tylenol by itself.


    Where did you get this?
    In combination they are bad for the liver but the more recent findings suggest kidney damage may be really bad for certain people. But dead on the spot? If it kills someone dead on the spot it's most likely what my rant was about. Some drugs are much more potent, have weird side effects, super addictive for certain people. Other people, fine.

    Or you mean totally wasted on alcohol and then eating Tylenol?

    And we are not referring to Tylenol 3 with codeine?

  14. #64
    Veteran SpursforSix's Avatar
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    Where did you get this?
    In combination they are bad for the liver but the more recent findings suggest kidney damage may be really bad for certain people. But dead on the spot? If it kills someone dead on the spot it's most likely what my rant was about. Some drugs are much more potent, have weird side effects, super addictive for certain people. Other people, fine.

    Or you mean totally wasted on alcohol and then eating Tylenol?

    And we are not referring to Tylenol 3 with codeine?
    Yeah...in general Tylenol while drinking. 3 or otherwise. There were some cases of people having liver failure mixing booze and Tylenol. So if I'm gonna take some opioids while drinking, I'd rather have them contain ibuprofen.

  15. #65
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    Tylenol Overdose Risk Is Staggering; Acetaminophen Safeguards Remain Insufficient

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...n_3976991.html


  16. #66
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    Easy. Dont with their prescriptions.
    So would you grandfather in the ones that are already addicted and start limiting scrips on new patients or what? Because the way we've been doing it isn't working. I'm just asking, because I really don't have a good solution.

  17. #67
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    Tylenol Overdose Risk Is Staggering; Acetaminophen Safeguards Remain Insufficient

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...n_3976991.html

    Good to know.
    Even though Those are excessive doses.

    I usually go ibuprofen for muscle/ joint pain from excessive exercise and have never taken extra strength Tylenol but I have taken Tylenol. Ok then.

  18. #68
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    Yeah...in general Tylenol while drinking. 3 or otherwise. There were some cases of people having liver failure mixing booze and Tylenol. So if I'm gonna take some opioids while drinking, I'd rather have them contain ibuprofen.
    Woah.

    I'm Never gonna mix codeine with anything else. Had Tylenol 3 a number of times. The wisdom tooth time was the "worst". I think that was a higher dose.

    I actually had a really bad reaction to alcohol because I forgot I took an antihistamine. Benadryl.

    I have never been knocked so silly in my entire life. I had my wife walk me around for like 2 hours. It was seriously awful. Never gonna ever make that mistake again. Basically it was a very strong narcotic for me.

    I still think it must be stressed that individuals react differently to drugs and of course different combinations. We need to get profiles for individuals so at least they know where they are headed, the docs can already have the charts. And over a lifetime the sensitivity can of course, change.
    Last edited by pgardn; 02-12-2018 at 11:06 PM.

  19. #69
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    So would you grandfather in the ones that are already addicted and start limiting scrips on new patients or what? Because the way we've been doing it isn't working. I'm just asking, because I really don't have a good solution.
    Thats workable.

  20. #70
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    So would you grandfather in the ones that are already addicted and start limiting scrips on new patients or what? Because the way we've been doing it isn't working. I'm just asking, because I really don't have a good solution.
    Diplomatic progress...

    Maybe our elected representatives could accomplish something similar.

  21. #71
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    leaning on legal opioid channels as a solution?

    China firms happy to sell killer opioid "weapon" to anyone in U.S.

    It’s one of the strongest opioids in circulation, so deadly an amount smaller than a poppy seed can kill a person.

    Until July, when reports of carfentanil overdoses began to surface in the U.S., the substance was best known for knocking out moose and elephants -- or as a chemical weapon.


    Despite the dangers, Chinese vendors offer to sell carfentanil openly online, for worldwide export, no questions asked,


    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-s...icted-chinese/


    The hunt for illegal opioids in the U.S. starts inside JFK airport

    U.S. Customs and Border Protection is revealing an alarming new milestone in the fight against opioids.

    Fentanyl and other super-potent synthetic opioids have been pouring into the United States through international mail and private carriers,

    and seizures of these illegal shipments surpassed 37 kilograms, more than 81 pounds,

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/opioid-...ort-mail-room/



  22. #72
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    leaning on legal opioid channels as a solution?

    China firms happy to sell killer opioid "weapon" to anyone in U.S.

    It’s one of the strongest opioids in circulation, so deadly an amount smaller than a poppy seed can kill a person.

    Until July, when reports of carfentanil overdoses began to surface in the U.S., the substance was best known for knocking out moose and elephants -- or as a chemical weapon.


    Despite the dangers, Chinese vendors offer to sell carfentanil openly online, for worldwide export, no questions asked,


    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-s...icted-chinese/


    Much of this stuff has become relatively easy to make.
    The Information Age is just wonderful.

  23. #73
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    Trash/Sessions won't go after the LEGAL opioid pushers / traffickers

    Drug firms shipped 20.8M pain pills to WV town with 2,900 people

    https://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/h...0ff06455b.html


  24. #74
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Maybe its time to just acknowledge that there is a certain percentage of the population that is going to be ups.
    To some degree, sure.

    But what percentage is that? What do you do with people in either group?

    Blaming the victim may make you feel all good about yourself, but it rarely solves problems IRL. Use that open mind to give us something workable, preferably based on evidence over the usual conservative pla udes/deepities.

  25. #75
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    I recently watched several hours of a special series in the heroin/fentanyl issue that had actual interviews with the guys cutting and selling it. They said the junkies demanded the fentanyl cut for the buzz. They alse admitted all they could do when cutting the heroin was guess at how much to add and the test was putting it on the street. The closer they could get to max without killing the junkies the better they liked it and ods were just a normal business event because newer users couldnt handle the cut.

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