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  1. #76
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    So, if I am speeding, should the police drag my kids out of the car and beat them with batons? I did something illegal.

    yes or no?
    If they are as douchey as you...yes

  2. #77
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    That was a good, thoughtful response. Thank you. I need some time to google what I think about it. This deserves a response, and I will bookmark it and try to get back to it in the next few days.

  3. #78
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    At this point, I get to make the argument and make it a plausible comparison. Evil is evil, doesn't matter who commits the action, what matters is the underlying intent and consequence. I can see how you might not like the comparison.

    Is dragging children away from their parents and keeping them in cages to punish their parents evil?
    would it be better they shoot them?
    _____________________________
    There are roughly 312 million people in the United States. There are Roughly 357 million guns. There are Approximately 32,000 deaths per year from firearms. 60% are Suicides. That is 19,220 3% are Accidental. That is 960. 4% are justified. That is 1,200 33% are Homicides. That is 10,560. 80% of those Homicides are Gang related. That is 8,488. That leaves 1,713 in a society of 312 million people. That gives you a 0.010256410256% chance of death by gun. A 0.008564% chance if you don't hang out in the hood not planning a crime and not planning on committing suicide. The United States Does Not have a Gun problem.

  4. #79
    Believe. Pavlov's Avatar
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    would it be better they shoot them?
    It certainly is easier for you to pee in front of them without those pesky parents around.

  5. #80
    License to Lillard tlongII's Avatar
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    At this point, I get to make the argument and make it a plausible comparison. Evil is evil, doesn't matter who commits the action, what matters is the underlying intent and consequence. I can see how you might not like the comparison.

    Is dragging children away from their parents and keeping them in cages to punish their parents evil?
    Is that what conservatives are doing?
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  6. #81
    A neverending cycle Trainwreck2100's Avatar
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    I’m not saying I don’t feel for these kids, their situation sucks. But if this deters illegal immigration, then at least there’s something good coming out of it. Too many people go missing and/or die trying to illegally cross the border. any parent who would willingly risk their child’s life by taking that path.

    I’m all for legal immigration, I’m all for allowing refugees, I’m all for relaxing current immigration laws to let more people in. I think people who are already here illegally should be given a path to legal status without risk of deportation, if they go through the proper channels. But there absolutely should be a zero tolerance policy towards illegal immigration from now on, which protects the migrants more than anything.
    quite a few of these are asylum seekers, that's why the DOJ ruled to no longer accept gang and domestic violence as a condition for asylum
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  7. #82
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    gang and domestic violence should be taken care of by the countries they are from not the usa
    usa should not be a country that everyone things we can solve all their problems

  8. #83
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    In Texas, Cornelio recalled how quickly the tears flowed when the Civil Rights Project interviewed immigrants, whose children had been taken from them, after their arrest for illegally entering the country.https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/12/us/im...der/index.html

  9. #84
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    The federal judge sentenced Rodriguez-Avila to 15 days in jail because Rodriguez-Avila was previously convicted for the same misdemeanor offense in 2012 and deported.


    they keep breaking the law

  10. #85
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    stodgy republicans denouncing the ambition and self-sufficiency of foreigners wanting to live in the GREATEST COUNTRY EVER...as lawless and immoral.

  11. #86
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    In July 2017, dozens of undocumented immigrants, 10 of whom died, were found in the back of a tractor-trailer in San Antonio. The driver of that vehicle was sentenced to life without parole in April.

    Seems cruel of parents to do this to their kids bring them over for them to die in a trailer

  12. #87
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
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    Trump's AmeriKKKa:



    This is some bullshit sons. And this talks about boys 10-17. Where are the girls they stole and what happens to the "men and women" that turn 18? All of this is ed up.

    When this is all over, Trump is going to prison for a long ass time. I'm waiting for the day tbh.
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  13. #88
    Prince of Whales RandomGuy's Avatar
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    See, here's the thing. Morality is, at least the non-obvious, decency issues, subjective. You're stating that your "take" on the issue is the definitive judgement on it and you're not any authority to say.

    I don't think it "evil". It would only be evil if it was permanent and reunion with the family isn't being halted although the reunion location isn't where you would like it to be, which would be the reason they were separated in the first place.

    I think it sucks, but it's the result of what happens when you do something wrong/illegal. It's cause and effect and it's the parents' fault the kids are taken away since they choose to put their kids in jeopardy.

    You deny any self-accountability on these offenders and then find the end result to be "evil". You can feel how you wish, but the way you describe the penalty is just that- your description. But you personally judging it that way doesn't make it evil and doesn't make anyone less humane for agreeing with the end result and doesn't make you a person of higher moral fiber just because you see something that way.
    Seems like we need to agree on something approaching a definition of "evil" then.

    What is your working definition?
    _____________________________
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    "You know what uranium is, right? Its this thing called nuclear weapons. And other things. Like lots of things are done with uranium. Including some bad things." -President Trump

    Putin has built up their military again and again and again. Their military is much stronger. Hes doing nuclear, were not doing anything. Our nuclear is old and tired and his nuclear is tippy-top from what I hear. Better be careful, folks, okay? You better be careful. -President Trump



    http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...16#post9293816

  14. #89
    Prince of Whales RandomGuy's Avatar
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    stodgy republicans denouncing the ambition and self-sufficiency of foreigners wanting to live in the GREATEST COUNTRY EVER...as lawless and immoral.
    Pale rationalization of immoral actions. The GOP official called it right: Cult of Trump.

    The RNC's leader chiming in with an urge for loyalty... to Trump, not the party didn't help dispel that miasma.

  15. #90
    Veteran DMC's Avatar
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    Trump's AmeriKKKa:



    This is some bullshit sons. And this talks about boys 10-17. Where are the girls they stole and what happens to the "men and women" that turn 18? All of this is ed up.

    When this is all over, Trump is going to prison for a long ass time. I'm waiting for the day tbh.
    From October through May, the Border Patrol apprehended 32,372 unaccompanied minors, up about 1,300 from a year earlier. Meanwhile, apprehensions of "family units," as the agency calls children traveling with parents, fell to 59,113, down nearly 2,000 from the previous year.

    Southwest Key Programs, which has operated immigrant children's shelters since 1997, has received more than $807 million in federal grants over the past three fiscal years for services for immigrant children. It currently houses 5,129 kids, almost half the number in the shelter system altogether.

    Asked about reports that the Department of Health and Human Services is considering easing the shelter capacity crunch by using Fort Bliss, near El Paso, or other military bases as locations to house 1,000 or more children in tents temporarily, Sanchez said of the organization, "We're not going to do tent cities."

    oh noes! Mexican children wandering around in the US desert have to spend their days in AC getting fed, educated and entertained. Merikkkur suxxors!!

  16. #91
    Prince of Whales RandomGuy's Avatar
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    [strawman= oh noes! Mexican children wandering around in the US desert have to spend their days in AC getting fed, educated and entertained. Merikkkur suxxors!! "] [deflection]
    No one is criticizing the government for giving shelter to unaccompanied children. To suggest that anyone is complaining about it is actively dishonest, hypocrite.
    Last edited by RandomGuy; 06-14-2018 at 02:17 PM. Reason: clarity

  17. #92
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    One mother reports she was nursing her baby when Trash/JeBo Schutzstaffel took the baby away.

  18. #93
    Prince of Whales RandomGuy's Avatar
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    So let's dissect this strawman.

    Step 1: the actual position:
    Is dragging children away from their parents and keeping them in cages to punish their parents evil?
    Put simply: taking children away from their parents is unnecessary and cruel, i.e. evil.

    Step 2: the distortion:
    From October through May, the Border Patrol apprehended 32,372 unaccompanied minors,
    oh noes! Mexican children wandering around in the US desert have to spend their days in AC getting fed, educated and entertained. Merikkkur suxxors!!
    Go to the standard definition of strawman:

    A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.[1] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man."

    The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the opponent's proposition.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

    Here DMC substitutes the "they are talking about and complaining about getting children into AC" for "it is bad to tear children from their parents unnecessarily", then adding the mocking commentary at the end.

    That is about as clear of an example as it is possible to get.

  19. #94
    Prince of Whales RandomGuy's Avatar
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    One mother reports she was nursing her baby when Trash/JeBo Schutzstaffel took the baby away.
    As a matter of policy, the US government is separating families who seek asylum in the US by crossing the border illegally.

    Dozens of parents are being split from their children each day — the children labeled “unaccompanied minors” and sent to government custody or foster care, the parents labeled criminals and sent to jail.
    It is this kind of thing that us lefties are upset with.
    https://www.vox.com/2018/6/11/174431...arated-parents

    I fully understand the need to provide shelter for unaccompanied kids. I don't think that ANY kids should be kept in cages. We can, and should do better.

  20. #95
    Prince of Whales RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Kids die trying to cross the boarder illegally all the time
    ...so dead kids are not a big deal? Sounds like you are attempting to say it isn't. If you are trying to say that, then shame on you. It's the kind of thing that makes me embarrassed for you.

  21. #96
    License to Lillard tlongII's Avatar
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    It is this kind of thing that us lefties are upset with.
    https://www.vox.com/2018/6/11/174431...arated-parents

    I fully understand the need to provide shelter for unaccompanied kids. I don't think that ANY kids should be kept in cages. We can, and should do better.
    No kids are being kept in cages. That is hyperbole on your part. Many are detained and kept in secure facilities, even some with fencing as shown in your link. That is not a cage though.

  22. #97
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    We can, and should do better.
    won't happen.

    they're brown, they're so-called criminal trespassers, don't speak English.

    Trash/JeBo/Nielsen don't GAF.

    Anyway there's no $Bs available, gave it all to the oligarchy.

    The Trash/Repug ing CHAOS continues, day by day.

    I read that Trash breaking int'l trade agreements, adding tariffs may be a prelude to the nuke option: pulling out of the WTO

  23. #98
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Lol, cages

  24. #99
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    Parents have been separated from there kids anytime they're taken for prosecution. The pretense that this is "new" and presenting it as strictly a Trump thing is laughable to the point Ellian Gonzalez is laughing at this from Cuba.

  25. #100
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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