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  1. #26
    I'll tumble for ya Chris Fall's Avatar
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    There is an interesting piece on ESPN about the legacy of Chamberlain vs Russell. Most look at these two guys fairly evenly, but when you look at the two statistically,Wilt almost doubles Russell. The big difference? Russell played on one team, while Wilt played on many.
    Ummm 11>2

  2. #27
    Veteran Arcadian's Avatar
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    There is an interesting piece on ESPN about the legacy of Chamberlain vs Russell. Most look at these two guys fairly evenly, but when you look at the two statistically,Wilt almost doubles Russell. The big difference? Russell played on one team, while Wilt played on many. Because of this James and Durant will always be in the shadow of even Kobe. Future generations will see that he played with one team and that gets extra points when it comes to the legacy perception.
    Duncan too. Ultimate franchise player.

  3. #28
    I'll tumble for ya Chris Fall's Avatar
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    Future generations don’t give a how many teams you played for if you were great and you won. Who holds the Washington Wizards stint against Jordan? Who cares that Gretzky played for FIVE different NHL teams? Who knocks Joe Montana down in the ranks because he was a Chief? Kareem, Griffey, Pedro, Dream, Albert, Rice, Shaq... the list is long with all time greats.

    It really don’t matter, big picture. Maybe it matters some to the specific fans of teams they played for or won les with... but only in the moment. The perception thing is overblown. That is a “now” thing, and immediate, impulse reaction argument. Future generations don’t care.

    Be great. Win. That’s it.

  4. #29
    "The ball don't lie." dbestpro's Avatar
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    The counter argument is that Russell played with many great players while Wilt did not. The point remains the same that Wilt was a superior player but not in regards to legacy.

  5. #30
    "The ball don't lie." dbestpro's Avatar
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    Imagine if Magic played half his career with other teams or Larry Bird bounced around to the highest bidder. The great rivalry games become just another game.

  6. #31
    Veteran
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    Applying old standards to modern players doesn't make any sense..

    If LeBron had stayed in Cleveland his entire career, he likely retires with 0 rings, despite his ability..why are players obligated to show loyalty to poorly managed organizations just to appease old fans?

  7. #32
    Veteran Arcadian's Avatar
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    I don't penalize players for switching teams, but it's an extra bonus for those who stay the franchise player with one team.

  8. #33
    I'll tumble for ya Chris Fall's Avatar
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    The counter argument is that Russell played with many great players while Wilt did not. The point remains the same that Wilt was a superior player but not in regards to legacy.
    Your point was that the big difference was Russell played for one team. I’m saying that’s not the big difference. It’s winning championships that makes up the difference from individual statistics. If everything else stays the same with Russell’s career statistically, staying in Boston, but he wins 2 les instead of 11, Wilt universally would be regarded as the better player and rather significantly. Russell being on the same team his whole career would mean nothing.

    Staying with one team team for an entire professional athletic career makes for a nice story, good emotional tie with the team and its fans, loyalty and nostalgia. It’s not a reason why one player would be regarded better than another. I think it’s a stretch to even suggest it makes a difference at all, even in perception. The three greatest baseball players ever (consensus), Babe, Mays, Aaron all played for multiple teams. Didn’t hurt their legacy. Babe played for the two teams in the greatest rivalry in the history of the game. Legacy unchanged. Jordan and Kareem both often listed as the two greatest basketball players ever. Both played for two teams. LeBron is not out of place. Wayne Gretzky, the greatest hockey player ever, played for four different NHL teams. Before Brady, Montana was the best QB ever. The KC farewell tour didn’t change that until a QB WON more than him. Does Jerry Rice get killed for Oakland?

    This argument about what staying with one team does for the legacy of a player is complet horse .

    Be great. Win. That’s it.

  9. #34
    CDs Nuts. resistanze's Avatar
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    He's going to retire with multiple rings, MVPs, Final MVPs, a scoring le, most All-NBA 1st teams, most playoff points, 2nd most playoff assists, most/2nd most regular season points, biggest NBA Finals comeback etc. No one will care if he stayed with one team or not.

  10. #35
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Lebron doesn't give a what middle class white men think. He's trying to build wealth, not legacy. No one gives two s how cool the homeless man on the corner is, but a 90 year old billionaire gets his wrinkled old sucked on the regular by strippers because he's wealthy.

  11. #36
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Imagine if Magic played half his career with other teams or Larry Bird bounced around to the highest bidder. The great rivalry games become just another game.
    Imagine if Magic sucked one fewer , Lakers might have eclipsed the Celtics in championships.

  12. #37
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Imagine if Magic played half his career with other teams or Larry Bird bounced around to the highest bidder. The great rivalry games become just another game.
    They didn't have to

  13. #38
    Believe. Othyus Lalanne's Avatar
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    Lebron doesn't give a what middle class white men think. He's trying to build wealth, not legacy. No one gives two s how cool the homeless man on the corner is, but a 90 year old billionaire gets his wrinkled old sucked on the regular by strippers because he's wealthy.
    No positive image = less wealth.

    His activism is so the press suck his , not about being real.

  14. #39
    Veteran SuperCam's Avatar
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    re s thought LeGOAT was done winning. he just took a year off instead of two like MJ

  15. #40
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Does this scrub return to the playoffs or permanently relegated to begging & whining on Twitter during the postseason?
    Last edited by FrostKing; 06-16-2019 at 01:20 PM.

  16. #41
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    LeBrick is the most overrated athlete in the history of sports. Sure, he was a of a physical specimen, paid off the league to allow him to juice, was never clutch like Jordan or Kobe, and is 3/9 (.333 ) in the Finals.

  17. #42
    Veteran SuperCam's Avatar
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    LeBrick is the most overrated athlete in the history of sports. Sure, he was a of a physical specimen, paid off the league to allow him to juice, was never clutch like Jordan or Kobe, and is 3/9 (.333 ) in the Finals.



  18. #43
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    3-6 in Finals close out games

  19. #44
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    8 years of trying to build organically through draft = hard failure
    1 year of stacking = instant success

    NBA so ed

  20. #45
    Believe.
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    Lebron will be fine. Being investigated for sexual assault along with teammate outright selfishness that would make Barry Bonds seem like a good guy (Kobe). Forcing a trade out of Milwaukee because you wanted a better cultural fit when it wasn't nearly as common as today, along with the fact that you refused to represent the US in the Olympics protesting racial injustice in a era when it wasn't accepted (Kareem), having a gambling addiction so bad David Stern suspended you a year and you pretended to "retire" (MJ), spitting on fans sitting in the stands (Charles Barkley), insulting a whole state because you wanted to play in a bigger media market (Rick Barry) didn't have any effect on "legacy". And it won't for LBJ or Durant either. Who, I'd argue, have kept their supposed shortcoming focused on basketball at least. It's just a made-up controversy for haters and media clickbait.

    6 years from now it will be some young player that's : "No Lebron" or "no Durant". Its the nature of sports. I'm a die-hard Lakers fans who literally hated Kareem when he played for the Bucks. Couldn't stand Lebron either. Imagine going back to Cleveland after what Gilbert said. Wasn't a big fan of Kobe after the Shaq trade and after that ridiculous 2 year extension. Perspectives changed. Once they played on the team I root for. And when you cut through all the bovine excrement that's really what its about. Nobody hated Curry or Green until Golden State begin winning.

  21. #46
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Future generations don’t give a how many teams you played for if you were great and you won. Who holds the Washington Wizards stint against Jordan? Who cares that Gretzky played for FIVE different NHL teams? Who knocks Joe Montana down in the ranks because he was a Chief? Kareem, Griffey, Pedro, Dream, Albert, Rice, Shaq... the list is long with all time greats.

    It really don’t matter, big picture. Maybe it matters some to the specific fans of teams they played for or won les with... but only in the moment. The perception thing is overblown. That is a “now” thing, and immediate, impulse reaction argument. Future generations don’t care.

    Be great. Win. That’s it.
    Applying old standards to modern players doesn't make any sense..

    If LeBron had stayed in Cleveland his entire career, he likely retires with 0 rings, despite his ability..why are players obligated to show loyalty to poorly managed organizations just to appease old fans?

  22. #47
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    I'll never understand the bias some have against a player choosing/making his own destiny. Look at LeBron's 2007 Cavalier team that lost to the Spurs: the second best player on that team was Larry Hughes, or maybe Drew Gooden. Sasha Pavlovic and Boobie Gibson got major minutes, but would never start on any future teams. With these teammates, LeBron beat an experienced Piston team in '07, and the next year lost in seven games to a Celtic team that had Garnett, Pierce, Ray Allen, Rondo, Posey, Powe, & Tony Allen... After seven years, Cleveland still couldn't land another star to pair with LeBron, as the Celtics and Lakers were stockpiling all stars. Why on earth would Lebron stay? To always fight shorthanded against loaded teams? It doesn't make sense.

  23. #48
    NostraSpurMus phxspurfan's Avatar
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    Instead, he took his talents back to Cleveland in 2014, a huge mistake, and though he did win a championship in 1 out of 4 trips to the Finals, it was far overshadowed by the three gruesome, mostly one-sided defeats handed by the deadly embrace of the Warriors – a superteam of ring-wraith mercenaries built on the very foundation he created in his Decision 2010, when he joined All-Stars Bosh and Wade in Miami.
    Didn't see this thread before, but the Dubs (sans KD) are nothing like the Heatles. As much as we hate the Dubs -- Curry, Klay and Dray were all drafted by GS. KD was the only coat tailer. Iggy doesn't count bc he's a random mercenary role player much like Mike Miller was for the Heat.

  24. #49
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    Didn't see this thread before, but the Dubs (sans KD) are nothing like the Heatles. As much as we hate the Dubs -- Curry, Klay and Dray were all drafted by GS. KD was the only coat tailer. Iggy doesn't count bc he's a random mercenary role player much like Mike Miller was for the Heat.
    Heat are more like the ‘04 Pistons & Duds are like the ‘05 Spurs with Iggy playing the Horry role.

  25. #50
    Millennial Messiah UNT Eagles 2016's Avatar
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    Heat are more like the ‘04 Pistons & Duds are like the ‘05 Spurs with Iggy playing the Horry role.
    Mike Miller sure Horry'd it up in 6. With one shoe on, one shoe off, no less.

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