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  1. #751
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    He seems to be the next incarnation of Ben McLemore, a player who has huge hops and can shoot pretty well, but really offers nothing else. I can absolutely see his career arc going the same way: journeyman. Advanced stats hate both of them, pretty much across the board.
    That's my fear also. It's pretty rare to see a player with advanced stats that poor three years in a row who suddenly turns it around to become a big net positive guy.

  2. #752
    Veteran J_Paco's Avatar
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    That's my fear also. It's pretty rare to see a player with advanced stats that poor three years in a row who suddenly turns it around to become a big net positive guy.
    I think he is in that danger zone of becoming an "empty stats," low IQ gunner if certain areas don't drastically improve, but I wouldn't give up on him completely, yet. Jordan Clarkson and Will Barton were both in similar situations to him, IMO, and came out the other side with good, productive careers.

    His improvement in a lot of areas needs to come relatively soon or he could find himself moving on. Feel/IQ, defense & more efficient scoring are all areas where he needs to make a jump.

    Not writing him off yet, but I understand completely why others are beginning to do so, his advanced metrics have been plain terrible.

    On two positive notes, he did show flashes of being a better passer than his numbers/role suggest (can he do it consistently, efficiently and at a higher rate?) and finally began using his athleticism a lot more in transition.

  3. #753
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    He probably needs a new situation. Either new team or new coach. But if Pop returns, I can maybe see the absence of DDR being enough of a change for LW to play differently. But hey, maybe he works hard in the off-season and gets his mind straight. He’s young and still figuring out his past as much as his future.

  4. #754
    D up! exstatic's Avatar
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    If you look at a couple of comps in this thread, Clarkson and McLemore, neither of them prospered with their drafting team, and both of them eventually came off the bench.

    There is a bit of a sense of urgency. This offseason will be, or not be, when he’s offered an extension. He’s not nearly worth what White and DJ got, and offering his true worth could cause problems. If you extend him, hoping his development curve steepens and it doesn’t, you’re stuck with four years of negative worth that would be difficult to move. I can see him being a sweetener in a trade this summer, maybe for Barnes. He and D’Aaron are boys.

  5. #755
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    I hate to lose Walker. I see him having the most upside with his athleticism if he meets his potential. Him and Luka.

  6. #756
    Chopper Ed Helicopter Jones's Avatar
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    I hate to lose Walker. I see him having the most upside with his athleticism if he meets his potential. Him and Luka.
    I agree. Losing him would kind of suck. He's a bit of an enigma with all of that untapped potential. He can look like a world-beater at times, and then fade into the background just as easily. Sometimes his defense looks stout, sometimes he looks disinterested. Then there's the offensive talent that can single-handedly bring the Spurs back against the Rockets, versus the guy that is happy just to hover on the perimeter and not look for the ball.

    Walker would be one of those guys that this place could be freaking out about if he goes to another team and realizes what he can be. And I'm also fairly positive that should that happen, it's going to be Pop's fault for not letting him spread his wings here.

    At the end of the day, I think I try to keep him if possible, unless there's someone available via trade that we know will fill a need.

  7. #757
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    ... This offseason will be, or not be, when he’s offered an extension. ...
    The Spurs exercised the team option for Lonnie for next season last December 21. Salary of 4.45 mil for next season. (Just to be clear how things stand.) So there’s not that much urgency. They can watch him, and work with him, for at least another half season before having to make a final decision. And the Spurs rarely make midseason moves.

  8. #758
    Veteran J_Paco's Avatar
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    Another good comp for Lonnie (and not in a good way) is Josh Richardson. He too - like Ben McLemore - has become a "journeyman" but after finding some early success in Miami. Unfortunately, he seems to have plateaued while being a mediocre shooter and defender.

    Probably seeing his time in Dallas coming to an end after being benched in the playoffs....

  9. #759
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    He seems to be the next incarnation of Ben McLemore, a player who has huge hops and can shoot pretty well, but really offers nothing else. I can absolutely see his career arc going the same way: journeyman. Advanced stats hate both of them, pretty much across the board.
    or gerald green who is also afraid of dunking

  10. #760
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    Meh at talking about advanced stats for Lonnie. The problem with advanced stats is they treat every team like they are the same, when all teams are different and need different things. Advances metrics always hated Jordan Clarkson yet he is one of the main reasons Utah is a one seed cause you know, they need somebody to shoot a lot. Same thing with Lou going back to Atlanta because somebody needs to put up shots when Trae is out or having a bad game. Between Patty Rudy and Demar leaving you talking about around 30 shots a game being up for grabs. I would like to see Lonnie come off the bench and get a lot of those shots in a volume shooter role. His defense is mostly trash but this is the nba, the overwhelming majority of guards defense is trash.

  11. #761
    The OL' Perfessor wildbill2u's Avatar
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    Walker just seems to be one of those guys who never quite "get it" on defense as well as some others. The court awareness of where everyone is--and where they will be-- just isnt there. With all that physical ability, he COULD be a really good defensive player, but he always seems lost. He may fall into the category of player described so well by Sir Charles; deer can run fast and jump high, but you don't see them playing in the NBA."

  12. #762
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    I say trade him for draft assets or make him part of a larger trade deal. If he finds his way somewhere else kudos to him!

  13. #763
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    Meh at talking about advanced stats for Lonnie. The problem with advanced stats is they treat every team like they are the same, when all teams are different and need different things. Advances metrics always hated Jordan Clarkson yet he is one of the main reasons Utah is a one seed cause you know, they need somebody to shoot a lot. Same thing with Lou going back to Atlanta because somebody needs to put up shots when Trae is out or having a bad game. Between Patty Rudy and Demar leaving you talking about around 30 shots a game being up for grabs. I would like to see Lonnie come off the bench and get a lot of those shots in a volume shooter role. His defense is mostly trash but this is the nba, the overwhelming majority of guards defense is trash.
    I agree that advanced stats can vary greatly (especially defensive rating) depending on individual teams, but Lonnie's advanced stats are among the worst compared to his own teammates, so I think the "each team is different therefore advanced stats don't work" concept doesn't apply. I'm still holding out hope that he can flip a switch next year, but it would definitely require him changing his approach to the the game. I spent a lot of time this season watching him this year, and there are just far too many minutes when he's not doing anything positive. If he was racing around the court like Reggie Miller or Ray Allen, trying to get free & exhausting his defender, it would be one thing... but watching him in isolation, he too frequently is doing nothing outside of waiting for the ball to come his way, so when I see those terrible advanced stats it matches the eye test for me. He's not boxing out on shots, changing position for possible kick outs, etc... and unfortunately that passivity translates accurately to bad advanced stats. Maybe without DDR dominating the ball (and that's a big assumption at this point, but we'll see) Lonnie can rework his approach and shine.

  14. #764
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    Unless they see some amazing progress I say trade or simply not extend yet, and I assume they do the latter, though I like the Barnes suggestion as long as we don’t lose a pick.

  15. #765
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    I agree that advanced stats can vary greatly (especially defensive rating) depending on individual teams, but Lonnie's advanced stats are among the worst compared to his own teammates, so I think the "each team is different therefore advanced stats don't work" concept doesn't apply. I'm still holding out hope that he can flip a switch next year, but it would definitely require him changing his approach to the the game. I spent a lot of time this season watching him this year, and there are just far too many minutes when he's not doing anything positive. If he was racing around the court like Reggie Miller or Ray Allen, trying to get free & exhausting his defender, it would be one thing... but watching him in isolation, he too frequently is doing nothing outside of waiting for the ball to come his way, so when I see those terrible advanced stats it matches the eye test for me. He's not boxing out on shots, changing position for possible kick outs, etc... and unfortunately that passivity translates accurately to bad advanced stats. Maybe without DDR dominating the ball (and that's a big assumption at this point, but we'll see) Lonnie can rework his approach and shine.
    IMO that is more of an indictment on the offensive play sets, I've heard Walker say he isn't even the fourth option at times when he's on the floor. He really has been misused, hopefully next year he will be used as a primary scorer.

  16. #766
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    IMO that is more of an indictment on the offensive play sets, I've heard Walker say he isn't even the fourth option at times when he's on the floor. He really has been misused, hopefully next year he will be used as a primary scorer.
    That's why I think the Spurs re-signing DDR would be bad news for Lonnie...

  17. #767
    D up! exstatic's Avatar
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    IMO that is more of an indictment on the offensive play sets, I've heard Walker say he isn't even the fourth option at times when he's on the floor. He really has been misused, hopefully next year he will be used as a primary scorer.
    You keep trying to spin this. They run the same play sets for any Spurs players that are on the floor at any given time. Lonnie isn’t getting it done even to the level of the other players on the team.

  18. #768
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    Spurs have to decide if they are going to extend Lonnie for 13 mil with the hope that he becomes the next Jordan Clarkson a player who is making 12 mil.

  19. #769
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    ... They run the same play sets for any Spurs players that are on the floor at any given time. ...

    No they do not. That is not true. I can give you an example.

    I wish I could remember the specific game but I don’t. I only remember what happened, the sequence of events.

    Lonnie hit a 3, I think it was on a c&s. Clean as could be, nothing but net, sweet. He looked hot, I thought.

    Was he hot? We’ll never know. I was hoping that on the next possession they’d work to get him another try. They did not. There was no effort, at all, to run a play for him, set a screen or anything. It was like his shot never happened. Nor on the next possession after that. Nor ever. It was like neither the team, nor the coaches, ever even noticed that Lonnie hit that perfect 3 pointer.

    However — Patty got subbed in, and I’m sure this was within 2 minutes of Lonnie’s shot. On the very next possession, the team immediately ran a play for Patty, with a screen for him to try a 3. He missed it badly. Clunk, have a brick.

    Again, that was within 2 minutes of Lonnie hitting that textbook 3.

    Patty got a play, coming in cold off the bench (and he clunked.) Where was Lonnie’s play, after he just hit perfectly? Nowhere.

    On the subject of discussion, as far as the Spurs running the same things for all their players, they sure as do not. Not last season they didn’t. And they never have.

  20. #770
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    No they do not. That is not true. I can give you an example.

    I wish I could remember the specific game but I don’t. I only remember what happened, the sequence of events.

    Lonnie hit a 3, I think it was on a c&s. Clean as could be, nothing but net, sweet. He looked hot, I thought.

    Was he hot? We’ll never know. I was hoping that on the next possession they’d work to get him another try. They did not. There was no effort, at all, to run a play for him, set a screen or anything. It was like his shot never happened. Nor on the next possession after that. Nor ever. It was like neither the team, nor the coaches, ever even noticed that Lonnie hit that perfect 3 pointer.

    However — Patty got subbed in, and I’m sure this was within 2 minutes of Lonnie’s shot. On the very next possession, the team immediately ran a play for Patty, with a screen for him to try a 3. He missed it badly. Clunk, have a brick.

    Again, that was within 2 minutes of Lonnie hitting that textbook 3.

    Patty got a play, coming in cold off the bench (and he clunked.) Where was Lonnie’s play, after he just hit perfectly? Nowhere.

    On the subject of discussion, as far as the Spurs running the same things for all their players, they sure as do not. Not last season they didn’t. And they never have.
    Don't think Lonnie is any good on those off-screen 3, there was a scouting report on him of his jumper being too compact to hit those shots. He is also in the 16th percentile on those shots, Patty on the other hand is in the 93 percentile. So running that play for Patty makes logical sense , for Lonnie not so much.

  21. #771
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Walker just seems to be one of those guys who never quite "get it" on defense as well as some others. The court awareness of where everyone is--and where they will be-- just isnt there. With all that physical ability, he COULD be a really good defensive player, but he always seems lost. He may fall into the category of player described so well by Sir Charles; deer can run fast and jump high, but you don't see them playing in the NBA."
    Which would lead me to think, with a few exceptions, the Spurs have a lot of deer...

  22. #772
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    Don't think Lonnie is any good on those off-screen 3, ...
    Then think again, because you are mistaken.

    As far as Patty getting screens, are you simply not very bright? Guy, Patty is short. You didn’t know that? He typically needs a screen to get a shot off. Do you ever watch any basketball? At all?

    But screens are used to help any player get a shot. You wouldn’t know that since you’ve never seen a basketball game.

    The reason why Lonnie doesn’t get many screens is because the Spurs are stupid. And Poeltl is over screening for DDR or Murray even when they’re cold and clanky. Because they got the play and Lonnie didn’t, even tho he looks hot. And so it goes.

  23. #773
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    Lonnie is just not good off the ball period. He doesn’t cut or more well on offense (he has gotten better but that could really help him even more) off the ball and defensively he falls asleep a lot when his player doesn’t have the ball.

    that has nothing to do with coaching and everything to do with basketball IQ.

    he is a great athlete and a beautiful shooting stroke but it’s obvious he still has poor feel of what to do on the court if he isn’t told. I think if Demar leaves and Lonnie is still with our Spurs his numbers will look a bit better but hopefully he really takes a lot of time during the off season to watch a ton of film as well as work on finishing with his left hand and contested at the rim

  24. #774
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    Then think again, because you are mistaken.

    As far as Patty getting screens, are you simply not very bright? Guy, Patty is short. You didn’t know that? He typically needs a screen to get a shot off. Do you ever watch any basketball? At all?

    But screens are used to help any player get a shot. You wouldn’t know that since you’ve never seen a basketball game.

    The reason why Lonnie doesn’t get many screens is because the Spurs are stupid. And Poeltl is over screening for DDR or Murray even when they’re cold and clanky. Because they got the play and Lonnie didn’t, even tho he looks hot. And so it goes.
    lmao lonnie is ing terrible off screen brah

    https://www.nba.com/stats/players/of...EVIATION*E*sas

  25. #775
    Every game is game 1 Seventyniner's Avatar
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    Lonnie is just not good off the ball period. He doesn’t cut or more well on offense (he has gotten better but that could really help him even more) off the ball and defensively he falls asleep a lot when his player doesn’t have the ball.

    that has nothing to do with coaching and everything to do with basketball IQ.

    he is a great athlete and a beautiful shooting stroke but it’s obvious he still has poor feel of what to do on the court if he isn’t told. I think if Demar leaves and Lonnie is still with our Spurs his numbers will look a bit better but hopefully he really takes a lot of time during the off season to watch a ton of film as well as work on finishing with his left hand and contested at the rim
    For all the (mostly justified) crap Belinelli got, he was an absolute wizard at moving without the ball. His BBIQ was pretty high, at least on offense.

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