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  1. #776
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    wow lonnie is horrid in almost every situation. above average in spot up but that is about it ...

  2. #777
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
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    I hate to lose Walker. I see him having the most upside with his athleticism if he meets his potential. Him and Luka.
    yeah, i'm not ready to give up on Lonnie, considering his upside. but he has to get it together. he has to step us his recognition of what is happening on the floor and his confidence has to grow. i feel the same about luka-except i don't doubt his confidence.

  3. #778
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    yeah, i'm not ready to give up on Lonnie, considering his upside. but he has to get it together. he has to step us his recognition of what is happening on the floor and his confidence has to grow. i feel the same about luka-except i don't doubt his confidence.
    They’ll get plenty of opportunities IF they let the veterans go. Is the PATFO ready to take that road? I think our young core has plenty to prove, AND they will have the support of the Spurs fans, win or lose, imo. We’ve been waiting for this group to shine. I think Walker has the potential to be a Donovan with his explosiveness. That Jazz team is what this Spurs could become with crisp passing and finding the open man, reminiscent of the beautiful game, plus a version of the early DRob era “transition offense” with everybody running. It’s not popular, but I would put Dieng, hopefully he resigns back, in place of Poeltl, for that passing/shooting big, Luka on PF another shooting big who can run, and Keldon at SF. A toss between DJ/Derrick at PG and Walker at SG. If might mean fewer W’s who knows? But it would be fun.

  4. #779
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    They’ll get plenty of opportunities IF they let the veterans go. Is the PATFO ready to take that road? I think our young core has plenty to prove, AND they will have the support of the Spurs fans, win or lose, imo. We’ve been waiting for this group to shine. I think Walker has the potential to be a Donovan with his explosiveness. That Jazz team is what this Spurs could become with crisp passing and finding the open man, reminiscent of the beautiful game, plus a version of the early DRob era “transition offense” with everybody running. It’s not popular, but I would put Dieng, hopefully he resigns back, in place of Poeltl, for that passing/shooting big, Luka on PF another shooting big who can run, and Keldon at SF. A toss between DJ/Derrick at PG and Walker at SG. If might mean fewer W’s who knows? But it would be fun.
    The Jazz are a LOT better 3 point shooting team than we are, number 1 in the NBA as a matter of fact. There’s really no comparing the teams. Our best shooter, combining atts/game and percentage is Derrick White, and he’d be like the 4th or 5th best shooter on Utah’s roster. You can’t model yourself after a team you’re nothing like, and Lonnie is a dead homeless man’s version of Spider Mitc . He’s just not going to get to that level, because he’s not very good.

  5. #780
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    The Jazz are a LOT better 3 point shooting team than we are, number 1 in the NBA as a matter of fact. There’s really no comparing the teams. Our best shooter, combining atts/game and percentage is Derrick White, and he’d be like the 4th or 5th best shooter on Utah’s roster. You can’t model yourself after a team you’re nothing like, and Lonnie is a dead homeless man’s version of Spider Mitc . He’s just not going to get to that level, because he’s not very good.
    It also had to do with contested shots. With the beautiful game, even TP gets a good 3pt percentage because of a good look. I think DJ has a better shooting form than TP. My point, they need to get back to crisp passing to get from good to better looks, and that should help increase the percentage. It starts with not resigning Demar and his ISO plays, and removing Poeltl who also clogs the lane, and go from there. Walker defers too much imo. Without Demar, I hope, not only him, but the rest of the guys would step up. I’m a big critique of Walker, but I’m not ready to give up on him.
    Last edited by John B; 06-09-2021 at 12:56 PM.

  6. #781
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    I predict that Lonnie will get that Kawhi treatment next season, hopefully the one that passed the torch from TP and not the one that sent him away. When that time comes and he's averaging 25 pts and more, this ST will explode.

  7. #782
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    I predict that Lonnie will get that Kawhi treatment next season, hopefully the one that passed the torch from TP and not the one that sent him away. When that time comes and he's averaging 25 pts and more, this ST will explode.
    You are one optimistic man.

  8. #783
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    I predict that Lonnie will get that Kawhi treatment next season, hopefully the one that passed the torch from TP and not the one that sent him away. When that time comes and he's averaging 25 pts and more, this ST will explode.
    He's capable of doing that, but damn, he needs to become more consistent. I've never seen such a skilled player so willingly disappear in games. Seems like whenever he tries to go on a streak he fails miserably. His highlights are almost always sporadic peppered in with an equal number of poor plays.

  9. #784
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    He's capable of doing that, but damn, he needs to become more consistent. I've never seen such a skilled player so willingly disappear in games. Seems like whenever he tries to go on a streak he fails miserably. His highlights are almost always sporadic peppered in with an equal number of poor plays.
    Without Demar, he wouldn’t have anybody to defer to. Kawhi was also shy taking the reins from the big 3. Heck, the big 3 didn’t even believe he was all that, and Pop had to bark at TP to pass Kawhi the ball. DJ is not shy, he’s ready to be the ringleader. But Lonnie needs persuasion, and I think he could do it. I mean he’s a winner. He also came through adversities growing up. I remember that’s what Spurs are looking for when they interview them prior to drafting, if they have the character. Lonnie is a good guy with his charities, and I’m rooting for him to shine next season. He got all the moves and still improving. Pop just needs to give him the green light to do “anything” out there, like what he gave Manu, and Lonnie will take off.

  10. #785
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    Without Demar, he wouldn’t have anybody to defer to. Kawhi was also shy taking the reins from the big 3. Heck, the big 3 didn’t even believe he was all that, and Pop had to bark at TP to pass Kawhi the ball. DJ is not shy, he’s ready to be the ringleader. But Lonnie needs persuasion, and I think he could do it. I mean he’s a winner. He also came through adversities growing up. I remember that’s what Spurs are looking for when they interview them prior to drafting, if they have the character. Lonnie is a good guy with his charities, and I’m rooting for him to shine next season. He got all the moves and still improving. Pop just needs to give him the green light to do “anything” out there, like what he gave Manu, and Lonnie will take off.
    I'm rooting for him too. High character kid, and he definitely has the tools to be very good.

    And for the same reasons you talk about with Demar, I'm actually hoping Patty either doesn't come back or is willing to take on a reduced role next year. Time to pass the torch to the young guys. We're not a playoff team with the vets leading the charge, so why not just go all-in on the youth movement at this point. Some veterans coaching from the bench is ok, but Pop needs to make the young guys the primary options and let them sink or swim.

  11. #786
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    I'm rooting for him too. High character kid, and he definitely has the tools to be very good.

    And for the same reasons you talk about with Demar, I'm actually hoping Patty either doesn't come back or is willing to take on a reduced role next year. Time to pass the torch to the young guys. We're not a playoff team with the vets leading the charge, so why not just go all-in on the youth movement at this point. Some veterans coaching from the bench is ok, but Pop needs to make the young guys the primary options and let them sink or swim.
    Patty was playing out of character because of lack of personnel. With Jazz ball movement or any other contender, he would shoot the lights out. That said, he’s 32 and probably on his last chance to get a lucrative deal. It wouldn’t be fair to him and his family to take a reduced pay, and Pop is not that type to let him do it. If Patty gets a better offer, he is gone.
    Last edited by John B; 06-10-2021 at 03:32 PM.

  12. #787
    "The ball don't lie." dbestpro's Avatar
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    When Walker was drafted Donovan Mitc was asked which player could have an impact similar to him and he said Walker. I think Walker should start, get 30 plus minutes a night and be allowed to play through his mistakes. He could be a 20 PPG scorer plus and could be the guy if Pop would free him up. Same thing to a certain degree can be said for Luca.

  13. #788
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    When Walker was drafted Donovan Mitc was asked which player could have an impact similar to him and he said Walker. I think Walker should start, get 30 plus minutes a night and be allowed to play through his mistakes. He could be a 20 PPG scorer plus and could be the guy if Pop would free him up. Same thing to a certain degree can be said for Luca.
    Lonnie being the guy would ultimately have the team in a similar if not worse situation in the Western Conference. I do think using him or one of the other guards as trade bait could be a good idea to see if a team would be willing to bite.

  14. #789
    "The ball don't lie." dbestpro's Avatar
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    Lonnie being the guy would ultimately have the team in a similar if not worse situation in the Western Conference. I do think using him or one of the other guards as trade bait could be a good idea to see if a team would be willing to bite.
    Giving up on who could be a star is what teams do that miss the playoffs ten years in a row. Walker eventually is going to make either the Spurs or another team very happy.

  15. #790
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    Giving up on who could be a star is what teams do that miss the playoffs ten years in a row. Walker eventually is going to make either the Spurs or another team very happy.
    I don’t think so. Outside of long shooting, he really doesn’t do much. He is going to get someGM fired, though.

  16. #791
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    wow the board is already giving up on Lonnie after a year? wow..it's mindblowing that people thing we're going to resign him when we gave Dejounte his contract while being imjured and had no offensive game. News flash, I would be really surpised if they don't re-sign him. I'm 96% sure that they will re-sign him
    it's not a surpise that Lonnie strguggled as bad as he did, he was extremely raw, had relapse in college, disappeared college and everythat that saw him could see that (Well...I guess not all)
    It's called a rebuild for a reason! and you have to be patient. I saw alot of bad from lonnie, but I also saw alot of good from him. From the year before to last year, there was big difference, and I expect a similar jump heading inot this season. When they got booted out of the Playoffs, Lonnie was the one guy that you could clearly see was effected the most and i expect him to improve. The guy is only 22/23 by next season, dude's still young and still entering his prime while learning, he might not be that starter we envisioned him to be, but he can/could be a solid 6 men, where we saw flashes of his upside.

  17. #792
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    wow the board is already giving up on Lonnie after a year? wow..it's mindblowing that people thing we're going to resign him when we gave Dejounte his contract while being imjured and had no offensive game. News flash, I would be really surpised if they don't re-sign him. I'm 96% sure that they will re-sign him
    it's not a surpise that Lonnie strguggled as bad as he did, he was extremely raw, had relapse in college, disappeared college and everythat that saw him could see that (Well...I guess not all)
    It's called a rebuild for a reason! and you have to be patient. I saw alot of bad from lonnie, but I also saw alot of good from him. From the year before to last year, there was big difference, and I expect a similar jump heading inot this season. When they got booted out of the Playoffs, Lonnie was the one guy that you could clearly see was effected the most and i expect him to improve. The guy is only 22/23 by next season, dude's still young and still entering his prime while learning, he might not be that starter we envisioned him to be, but he can/could be a solid 6 men, where we saw flashes of his upside.
    It’s three years. Three years. Dejounte started his second year. Keldon started his second year. White started his second year.

  18. #793
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    It’s three years. Three years. Dejounte started his second year. Keldon started his second year. White started his second year.
    First off Demar was occupying the role Lonnie is best suited for, and secondly IMO he should have been starting over White this year.

  19. #794
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    First off Demar was occupying the role Lonnie is best suited for, and secondly IMO he should have been starting over White this year.
    Yeah, except HE CANT ING DEFEND AT ALL. We have enough defensive liabilities as it is. He also is pretty bad at creating shots. And rebounding. You know, those things DJ and White do, all ing day.

    Other than jumping high,I’m not sure he’s any better than Forbes.

  20. #795
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    It’s three years. Three years. Dejounte started his second year. Keldon started his second year. White started his second year.
    I don't know. But DJ, Derrick and Lonnie's 3rd year stats look pretty similar to me. While Keldon's 2nd year is already at par and should be even better when he adds more to his offensive repertoire. But he got the benefits of getting Pop's nod from the get go. And that's something. Actually with DJ, I was getting frustrated with him until only this year when he starts to prove me wrong, on his 4th year, as the starting PG with consistent minutes. Again DJ had all the backing of Pop and even TP as the next starting PG. While Lonnie sometimes didn't even get to play, and really only got burn whenever White or Demar were out. He beasted on Harden, and got benched the following game?? I think what Lonnie, Luka and those guys need are just consistent minutes of play, which they will have plenty of next season, and a little green light to do a little experiment out there. It didn't hurt Manu, and I think it would help Lonnie as well. He's a special kid.

    Dejounte Murray
    GP GS MIN FG FG% 3PT 3P% FT FT% OR DR REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
    66 58 25.6 4.5-9.7 46.2 0.6-1.7 36.9 1.4-1.7 79.8 1.0 4.8 5.8 4.1 0.3 1.7 2.2 1.9 10.9
    Lonnie Walker
    60 38 25.4 4.3-10.2 42.0 1.7-4.7 35.5 1.0-1.2 81.4 0.2 2.4 2.6 1.7 0.3 0.5 1.7 1.1 11.2
    Derrick White
    68 20 24.7 3.7-8.1 45.8 1.2-3.2 36.6 2.6-3.1 85.3 0.5 2.8 3.3 3.5 0.9 0.6 2.2 1.3 11.3
    Keldon Johnson (2nd year)
    69 67 28.5 4.9-10.2 47.9 0.9-2.6 33.1 2.1-2.8 74.0 1.3 4.6 6.0 1.8 0.3 0.6 2.1 1.1 12.8
    Last edited by John B; 06-11-2021 at 12:59 PM.

  21. #796
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    Yeah, except HE CANT ING DEFEND AT ALL. We have enough defensive liabilities as it is. He also is pretty bad at creating shots. And rebounding. You know, those things DJ and White do, all ing day.

    Other than jumping high,I’m not sure he’s any better than Forbes.
    Evidently we weren't watching the same team this year, from what I remember the teams overall production took the biggest dive when Walker missed, not White. And the only shots he get are the one's he create so I don't know what the you are talking about on that front? Lastly, Demar, Patty, or Rudy don't defend worth a either, difference is Walker still has upside.

  22. #797
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    Evidently we weren't watching the same team this year, from what I remember the teams overall production took the biggest dive when Walker missed, not White. And the only shots he get are the one's he create so I don't know what the you are talking about on that front? Lastly, Demar, Patty, or Rudy don't defend worth a either, difference is Walker still has upside.
    They were 15-21 without White, and 5-7 without Walker. Perhaps people here might take you a bit more seriously if you weren’t outright making up.

  23. #798
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    They were 15-21 without White, and 5-7 without Walker. Perhaps people here might take you a bit more seriously if you weren’t outright making up.
    I don't give a about your bull google stats, I watched the games, I know we had a winning record without White for the first few games of the year, I know Pop stubbornness costed us a few games because he didn't put Lonnie in the starting line up when White went down the second time.

  24. #799
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    I don't know. But DJ, Derrick and Lonnie's 3rd year stats look pretty similar to me. While Keldon's 2nd year is already at par and should be even better when he adds more to his offensive repertoire. But he got the benefits of getting Pop's nod from the get go. And that's something. Actually with DJ, I was getting frustrated with him until only this year when he starts to prove me wrong, on his 4th year, as the starting PG with consistent minutes. Again DJ had all the backing of Pop and even TP as the next starting PG. While Lonnie sometimes didn't even get to play, and really only got burn whenever White or Demar were out. He beasted on Harden, and got benched the following game?? I think what Lonnie, Luka and those guys need are just consistent minutes of play, which they will have plenty of next season, and a little green light to do a little experiment out there. It didn't hurt Manu, and I think it would help Lonnie as well. He's a special kid.

    Dejounte Murray
    GP GS MIN FG FG% 3PT 3P% FT FT% OR DR REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
    66 58 25.6 4.5-9.7 46.2 0.6-1.7 36.9 1.4-1.7 79.8 1.0 4.8 5.8 4.1 0.3 1.7 2.2 1.9 10.9
    Lonnie Walker
    60 38 25.4 4.3-10.2 42.0 1.7-4.7 35.5 1.0-1.2 81.4 0.2 2.4 2.6 1.7 0.3 0.5 1.7 1.1 11.2
    Derrick White
    68 20 24.7 3.7-8.1 45.8 1.2-3.2 36.6 2.6-3.1 85.3 0.5 2.8 3.3 3.5 0.9 0.6 2.2 1.3 11.3
    Keldon Johnson (2nd year)
    69 67 28.5 4.9-10.2 47.9 0.9-2.6 33.1 2.1-2.8 74.0 1.3 4.6 6.0 1.8 0.3 0.6 2.1 1.1 12.8
    Thank you for saying that.

  25. #800
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    I don't give a about your bull google stats, I watched the games, I know we had a winning record without White for the first few games of the year, I know Pop stubbornness costed us a few games because he didn't put Lonnie in the starting line up when White went down the second time.
    that's a good at ude, we need more of that around here.

    Stats can be misleading. I wouldn't say he impacts the team more than White, but he was absolutely missed when he went down - people looking at only his stats (offensive or defensive) are really missing the picture. His ability to take defenders off the dribble, his warping of a defense when he penetrates (even if those drives don't always end in a score or assist!) is a huge aspect of the game, where the Spurs are very lacking. Dejounte can do that but he doesn't put the same pressure on a defense, and often gets tunnel vision with his score-first mentality. White often has to resort to acrobatics because he lacks the first step to consistently beat his defender... Keldon is a beast, I don't have a critique there. But Lonnie's athleticism, whilst not yet translating to consistently solid outputs, is an absolute gem that doesn't present itself on a stat sheet.

    I think if the vets are truly gone for good, and the Spurs actually hang over the keys to the kids, Lonnie could surprise a lot of people next season. Chinook is convinced he's not getting re-signed, but I'm not nearly convinced. Spurs staff/FO know what he's got... And the idea that resigning him could be bad is laughable. Someone with his physical profile and shooting ability from 3, barring extreme injuries, will never be untradeable in the NBA, almost no matter the contract he gets (and for sure, given that he's likely to command much less than White and DJ got). That's my 2cents on the common takes of these last few pages.

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