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  1. #101
    Believe. skookumchuck's Avatar
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    Also, it doesn't make sense that Bertans is more of a lock than Poeltl. Jakob has been a significantly better player and has more NBA experience. It's really not close between the two of them.
    I'm sorry what now? I get that you're not really into Bertans, but claiming Jakob is a significantly better player and has more NBA experience is just outright wrong. It's at best close between them in Bertans favor. Poeltl, however, can only play the 5, thus he fits his position better, than Davis at the 4, which isn't his position at all. Jako has definitely had more opportunities to succeed, what with his MPG being higher. Low/sporadic minutes hamper with shooters often. Jako is a good rim defender, good rebounder and good finisher. Everything else Davis does better. Wash at best.

  2. #102
    Veteran cutewizard's Avatar
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    I think this year team can actually cause match up problems for other teams. We have a lot of versatility at the guard position. That is what is needed.
    Agree.
    By the way, are you a Malazan fan?

    Coz i am too

  3. #103
    Veteran cutewizard's Avatar
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    Derrick White has surpassed expectations repeatedly in the last few years, in college, in the G League, and in Summer League...
    I'm hoping he can do it again this year and finish the season with 20+ MPG. His advanced stats have been consistently good, so he's not putting up empty numbers, and he has the potential to match/beat Danny Green's 3PT% & D while easily surpassing his passing & ball handling abilities. I think he's the single player I'm most interested in watching develop this year.

    Agree. I like White's composure a lot......

  4. #104
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    Derrick White has surpassed expectations repeatedly in the last few years, in college, in the G League, and in Summer League...
    I'm hoping he can do it again this year and finish the season with 20+ MPG. His advanced stats have been consistently good, so he's not putting up empty numbers, and he has the potential to match/beat Danny Green's 3PT% & D while easily surpassing his passing & ball handling abilities. I think he's the single player I'm most interested in watching develop this year.
    I have high hopes that White will exceed expectations.

  5. #105
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    This team isnít winning games with defense. They canít outscore teams without having a three point shooter on the floor at all times.
    I disagree, I still think that this team can be a top 10-12 on defense and offense. If Pop is dead set on adding more shooting, then I'd rather have Mills, Murray, DDR, LMA and Gasol.

  6. #106
    I may or may not care. monkeypunk's Avatar
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    I have high hopes that White will exceed expectations.
    Pops thinks at least highly enough of him to insert him for a good chunk of game one against the Dubs. Not sure why he didnít get more run but he certainly can be a great role player with consistent minutes. At least 20 minutes a game to start with and more if he shows up along the way.

    As far as game 1 lineup, Pop is Pop so itíll be the old standards, DJ, DD, Gay, LMA and Gasol. But down the line, Iíd expect Jakob to swap for Pau and Beli / White starting at 2 and DD shifting over to the 3 with Gay and Manu backing him up.

    As long as Mills doesnít start, weíve got a chance,

  7. #107
    Veteran 8FOR!3's Avatar
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    Problem with starting Manu is that he is going to play few minutes for most games and he'll sit out a number. I think the Spurs will want a more consistent unit. Plus, the Spurs need three point shooting in their starting line up, which means either Mills or Belli. They'll figure it out defensively, but this team has to have space since its two best scorers are two point scorers that like to operate in the paint.
    Yeah I agree, I don't think Manu starting will happen and it makes sense why not.

  8. #108
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    Murray
    White
    DeRozan
    Bertans
    LMA

  9. #109
    Veteran SpursDynasty85's Avatar
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    Murray
    White
    DeRozan
    Bertans
    LMA
    This line up would be ideal starter or Gay over Bertans in case the opposing forward is too big.

  10. #110
    Veteran r0drig0lac's Avatar
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    This line up would be ideal starter or Gay over Bertans in case the opposing forward is too big.
    I agree, any lineup with White would be ideal because we would give a secondary playmaker and shooter on the court (although I want to see Lonnie playing from day 1), but it's impossible to see Pop doing it already at the start of the season

  11. #111
    Veteran SpursDynasty85's Avatar
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    I agree, any lineup with White would be ideal because we would give a secondary playmaker and shooter on the court (although I want to see Lonnie playing from day 1), but it's impossible to see Pop doing it already at the start of the season
    Honestly Lonnie is not ready for NBA. If he starts killing it in the G league I would start pushing for him to play but he seems a little lost out there when I saw him in the summer league. He wasn't very effective even at the collegiate level yet.

  12. #112
    "The ball don't lie." dbestpro's Avatar
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    Funny how so many says they hope White will play better than expected, and then puts him in their starting line-up.

  13. #113
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    Butler isn't going to be posting anyone up and down the floor. He's a slasher. There's no reason why Murray can't just use length and quick hands to guard him. James destroyed Diaw in 14, and Pop gave up on that after the first game.

    Of course I'm presuming Mills starts instead of Gay. That's been my opposing position to yours this whole time.
    He is if a lightweight like Murray is defending him. He could also easily overpower him on drives.

    I know. What I'm saying is, if Mills doesn't start and they utilize Murray to defend the best opposing perimeter player without taking anything else into account, that will mean the led footed DeRozan would have to defend PG's at times.

    DeRozan is an abysmal fit next to Gay and Murray, but you think Pop would ignore that. Between Mills and Leonard? That's fine, especially if Bertans started at the four. DMDR would essentially be replacing Parker on offense. Having that guard scorer would have been just what the doctor ordered. Were there players I'd rather have as the third member of the Big Three? Yes, of course. But for what they could give up (Murray, Green, Gasol, 18 and a first), I think that's the best they could get.
    Sure, but the difference is, Gay is not a star, much less a superstar. He won't have the usage or minutes that Leonard would have had and when he does play with Aldridge and DeRozan, he'll have to function as more of a spot up shooter.

    DeRozan is like a worse version of Westbrook, in that he has to have the ball to have any use offensively. That's why him next to a superior player, like Leonard, would be awkward because Leonard has more of an off ball skillset, but is too good to acquiesce to him. This is why Durant and Wesbtrook were always an awkward fit.

    It's almost literally the only option if Gay doesn't start. It can't be that surprising.
    I meant Gay not starting would be mildly surprising.

    The league doesn't view him as anything special. This is his last season compared to two guys who are currently out of the league and to Rasual Butler (RIP) the year before he signed his non-guaranteed year with SA.

    https://www.basketball-reference.com...01&idx=players

    They are very similar in terms of uses, and Cun is solidly middle-of-the-road compared to those guys in terms of performance. If he had been as sought after as you seem to think, he wouldn't have stayed in Brooklyn all year. Teams like Cleveland had open spots all the way until the end of the season. Nope, the reality is that had SA not signed Dante, he could very well be in China right now.
    I didn't say they did. But they have viewed him as a 20-25 mpg, part time starter, for a long time. He's not that caliber of player, but that's been his role. It won't be now, but those who think he's coming here to be Butler, are going to be in for a rude awakening.

    By the way, he was traded from the Pelicans to the Nets for Vaughn on February 8th. Hill was due back and Miller had outplayed him, so it was a cost cutting move.

    Beli may play more minutes than Ginobili, but he's clearly not higher up on the lock list. Also, it doesn't make sense that Bertans is more of a lock than Poeltl. Jakob has been a significantly better player and has more NBA experience. It's really not close between the two of them. Pop certainly starts rookies off slowly, but he doesn't have same bias toward new vets. When talking about salaries as small as Bertans' and Poeltl's it doesn't make a ton of sense to assign in bency there. That's even more true considering how much rim protection is needed. Bertans would have a rotation spot if he were so good that he had to play. But guys with his salary sit all the time.
    Belinelli isn't more of a lock than Ginobili, but he's a lock all the same. Bertans ahead of Poeltl makes perfect sense because of the composition of the roster. Already starting 2 traditional bigs and a lack of shooting, it's highly unlikely the 3rd big will be another player who fits that description.

    Rim protection isn't a need. Aldridge and Gasol rate among the best in the league.

    First, Gay can create just fine when he wants to. But second, Gay doesn't have to be a play-maker in his own right to relieve Manu's burden. Just him being able to catch the ball and make something happen or being a guy they can throw it to in the post would help.
    I don't see it as the burden you do. I suspect they'll be lots of mixing and matching and the stretches they play full 2nd unit, their perpetual motion and IQ will make up for the lack of a static, go-to scorer.

  14. #114
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    I'm sorry what now? I get that you're not really into Bertans, but claiming Jakob is a significantly better player and has more NBA experience is just outright wrong. It's at best close between them in Bertans favor. Poeltl, however, can only play the 5, thus he fits his position better, than Davis at the 4, which isn't his position at all. Jako has definitely had more opportunities to succeed, what with his MPG being higher. Low/sporadic minutes hamper with shooters often. Jako is a good rim defender, good rebounder and good finisher. Everything else Davis does better. Wash at best.
    You need to actually look at their histories in the NBA. Poeltl was been much better, and last year, he played 50-percent more minutes that Davis. Poeltl can play his position well, whereas Bertans needs to show he can. Despite your complaints, Davis has been a much better big than wing in the NBA http://www.82games.com/1718/17SAS13.HTM

    He's not some guy who's playing out of position. Sure, it's great that he have more mobility on O than like Bonner. But he's not a wing, especially not in the small-ball era.

    It's not about hating Davis. I like him just fine and hyped him up like mad before he came over. But he's going to have to compete for a rotation spot. He struggled to hold onto one last year, and his salary isn't going to guarantee him one this year. Being a fan of his doesn't mean ignoring reality.

  15. #115
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    He is if a lightweight like Murray is defending him. He could also easily overpower him on drives.

    I know. What I'm saying is, if Mills doesn't start and they utilize Murray to defend the best opposing perimeter player without taking anything else into account, that will mean the led footed DeRozan would have to defend PG's at times.
    Can't think of too many teams that have a potent offensive PG who is not the top perimeter option on his team. Maybe Houston? But even though Harden is better, I think Pop would let him try to beat the team alone if Murray had a chance at taking out Paul.

    Sure, but the difference is, Gay is not a star, much less a superstar. He won't have the usage or minutes that Leonard would have had and when he does play with Aldridge and DeRozan, he'll have to function as more of a spot up shooter.
    OR he could be on the bench where he can have the high-usage role the team needs him to have and the team could instead have a real shooter be the fifth guy. I obviously don't disagree with how Gay would have to function on offense if he is starting. But I don't see any real reason to misuse him that way outside of matchups with GS and Cleveland. I'd even want Pop to take his chances with smaller guys on Leonard (and George) rather than putting Rudy on him.

    DeRozan is like a worse version of Westbrook, in that he has to have the ball to have any use offensively. That's why him next to a superior player, like Leonard, would be awkward because Leonard has more of an off ball skillset, but is too good to acquiesce to him. This is why Durant and Wesbtrook were always an awkward fit.
    DeRozan isn't the same type of wasteland-level cancer Russ was at times with Durant. Sure, it's not a great fit nor one I would have loved (especially at the expense of Green and those assets), but the awkward Thunder duo made for a fine enough offense, and Pop would have made it better. Add in LMA, and I don't think SA would really have to worry about that end.

    I didn't say they did. But they have viewed him as a 20-25 mpg, part time starter, for a long time. He's not that caliber of player, but that's been his role. It won't be now, but those who think he's coming here to be Butler, are going to be in for a rude awakening.

    By the way, he was traded from the Pelicans to the Nets for Vaughn on February 8th. Hill was due back and Miller had outplayed him, so it was a cost cutting move.
    I know his transaction history. But after that trade, he would have been bought-out and signed on with a contender had anyone wanted him. I posted the comparison link. His minutes profile is not one of a solid rotation player. It's one of a journeyman who only got minutes because he was on bad teams. As I said, I still firmly believe Cunningham's contract is a regular min that may not even be guaranteed. The Spurs wouldn't have signed him at all had they not liked him, but he's less guaranteed a spot than say Jeff Ayres was (Ayres didn't hovered between 10th and 12th depending on the metrics). Jeff had a longer deal and only Bonner as compe ion for the bench center role. Cun has to hope Pop sits a better player for no reason to give him time.

    Belinelli isn't more of a lock than Ginobili, but he's a lock all the same. Bertans ahead of Poeltl makes perfect sense because of the composition of the roster. Already starting 2 traditional bigs and a lack of shooting, it's highly unlikely the 3rd big will be another player who fits that description.

    Rim protection isn't a need. Aldridge and Gasol rate among the best in the league.
    I don't expect Poeltl to be the third big. I expect that to be Gay. But I do expect Jakob to take over after that. If Poe plays well, maybe he could come in for Pau earlier, but I don't think Pop is going to play Gasol and Poeltl at the same time -- at least, I hope he wouldn't.

    Rim protection is a need now that they've lost three strong perimeter defenders. That's even more true since Pau pretty much has to start now and can't anchor the second unit.

    I don't see it as the burden you do. I suspect they'll be lots of mixing and matching and the stretches they play full 2nd unit, their perpetual motion and IQ will make up for the lack of a static, go-to scorer.
    I just think you underestimate the importance of having an anchor on the court at all times. Manu had been that for years. Diaw did that in 2014. Gay had his moments where he did that last year. Even if it didn't seem like it, Manu always had the ability to get a bucket for himself when the bench was in its prime. He did that when the team needed it, and that threat made it easy for the rolling big to get good looks. I just don't see Manu being the guy who can pound that rock at this point.

  16. #116
    Veteran cutewizard's Avatar
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    Interesting would be......

    Lamarcus
    Gay
    Murray
    White
    Derozan

  17. #117
    what uganda do about it? Joseph Kony's Avatar
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    TD 21 has some of the worst takes ive ever seen

  18. #118
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    OR he could be on the bench where he can have the high-usage role the team needs him to have and the team could instead have a real shooter be the fifth guy. I obviously don't disagree with how Gay would have to function on offense if he is starting. But I don't see any real reason to misuse him that way outside of matchups with GS and Cleveland. I'd even want Pop to take his chances with smaller guys on Leonard (and George) rather than putting Rudy on him.
    They could do both. Gay could start, come out mid quarter, then come back in and play with the 2nd unit. The hope would be that, in the first 6 minutes of the 1st/3rd quarters, the starters defense, rebounding and individual shot creation either wins out or at least is neutral.

    It's not just the Warriors and Lakers. To varying degrees, Celtics, Clippers, Bucks, Timberwolves, Thunder, 76ers, Raptors.

    DeRozan isn't the same type of wasteland-level cancer Russ was at times with Durant. Sure, it's not a great fit nor one I would have loved (especially at the expense of Green and those assets), but the awkward Thunder duo made for a fine enough offense, and Pop would have made it better. Add in LMA, and I don't think SA would really have to worry about that end.
    DeRozan's not as inherently selfish as Westbrook, but he's also not as talented and for as talented as Durant and Westbrook were, the Thunder offense routinely came up short in the playoffs.

    I know his transaction history. But after that trade, he would have been bought-out and signed on with a contender had anyone wanted him. I posted the comparison link. His minutes profile is not one of a solid rotation player. It's one of a journeyman who only got minutes because he was on bad teams. As I said, I still firmly believe Cunningham's contract is a regular min that may not even be guaranteed. The Spurs wouldn't have signed him at all had they not liked him, but he's less guaranteed a spot than say Jeff Ayres was (Ayres didn't hovered between 10th and 12th depending on the metrics). Jeff had a longer deal and only Bonner as compe ion for the bench center role. Cun has to hope Pop sits a better player for no reason to give him time.
    Not necessarily. The Nets could have asked and he could have balked because of the role he had with them. 20-25 mpg and occasionally starting is the definition of a profile of a solid rotation player (even though he's not actually of that caliber).

    Bonner was never a C. Duncan, Splitter, Baynes and Ayres were. Baynes/Bonner were the 4th big depending on the match-up. Expect Poeltl/Cunningham to be the same.

    I don't expect Poeltl to be the third big. I expect that to be Gay. But I do expect Jakob to take over after that. If Poe plays well, maybe he could come in for Pau earlier, but I don't think Pop is going to play Gasol and Poeltl at the same time -- at least, I hope he wouldn't.

    Rim protection is a need now that they've lost three strong perimeter defenders. That's even more true since Pau pretty much has to start now and can't anchor the second unit.
    So you have Bertans either playing SF or out of the rotation. The former, he's done damn near none of in 2 seasons and isn't any more of one than Gay and the latter, again, he's making $7-7.5M and they desperately need his skillset.

    Poeltl is too good and the optics would be bad for him to be out of the rotation regularly, but theoretically, Gasol could still start and anchor the 2nd unit; he did so for much of last season.

    I just think you underestimate the importance of having an anchor on the court at all times. Manu had been that for years. Diaw did that in 2014. Gay had his moments where he did that last year. Even if it didn't seem like it, Manu always had the ability to get a bucket for himself when the bench was in its prime. He did that when the team needed it, and that threat made it easy for the rolling big to get good looks. I just don't see Manu being the guy who can pound that rock at this point.
    You're too focused on starters/bench, as if they'll be playing long stretches with both units, when in reality they'll most likely be constant mixing and matching. That's the only way to attempt to make sense of this roster.

  19. #119
    Veteran cutewizard's Avatar
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    Jacob plus Gay plus Bertans plus White is a of a bench

  20. #120
    Veteran cutewizard's Avatar
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    Plus Belli of course

  21. #121
    Believe. skookumchuck's Avatar
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    You need to actually look at their histories in the NBA. Poeltl was been much better, and last year, he played 50-percent more minutes that Davis. Poeltl can play his position well, whereas Bertans needs to show he can. Despite your complaints, Davis has been a much better big than wing in the NBA http://www.82games.com/1718/17SAS13.HTM

    He's not some guy who's playing out of position. Sure, it's great that he have more mobility on O than like Bonner. But he's not a wing, especially not in the small-ball era.

    It's not about hating Davis. I like him just fine and hyped him up like mad before he came over. But he's going to have to compete for a rotation spot. He struggled to hold onto one last year, and his salary isn't going to guarantee him one this year. Being a fan of his doesn't mean ignoring reality.
    It's like you say, too. Poeltl has played more minutes, thus given more opportunity. It can certainly be argued that Davis could've played more, but suffered from the doghouseitis, frequently contracted by young players on Pop's Spurs. Jako plays the only position he fits, whereas Davis can play more than one position and rather well, for the modern NBA. Jako has his size and rebounding working for him. Davis will never be as good at those two things, obviously. But I can't agree with the fact that Jako's significantly better or more NBA experienced. Yeah, he's played more minutes over these 2 seasons, than Davis, by about 300. But Davis played more games and for Pop at that.
    Per 36, Davis' stats are better across the board, except RBD and BLK.

  22. #122
    Spur for life YGWHI's Avatar
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    OK so how will we guard Durant/Lebron/Kawhi/Butler/PG13?
    Spurs just face LeBron in 3/4 games of 82 regular season games.

    The same with KD, Butler, PG13. I wouldn't care for just a few games in a whole season.

    In a playoff serie? Spurs don't need to be successful against LeBron to beat the Lakers since the rest of LA roster is horrible. Spurs in 5.

    Butler/PG13, I doubt the Thunder and Wolves have a chance against this new Spurs team. Spurs in 6.

    KD? It doesn't matter since the Warriors will win that series with/without him.

  23. #123
    Veteran SpursDynasty85's Avatar
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    Spurs just face LeBron in 3/4 games of 82 regular season games.

    The same with KD, Butler, PG13. I wouldn't care for just a few games in a whole season.

    In a playoff serie? Spurs don't need to be successful against LeBron to beat the Lakers since the rest of LA roster is horrible. Spurs in 5.

    Butler/PG13, I doubt the Thunder and Wolves have a chance against this new Spurs team. Spurs in 6.

    KD? It doesn't matter since the Warriors will win that series with/without him.
    Disagree with this. Vs the Spurs the two big culprits are KD and Thompson. I say any injury to their top 3 ulopens the doors for almost every playoff team in the west especially the Rockets and Spurs. We have the experience, veterans, length, and, depth/versatility especially now that mcGee is gone. I think DeMarcus is a huge question mark how he will fit especially since he will only be back near the midway point and plays completely different to what they were used to.

  24. #124
    Spur for life YGWHI's Avatar
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    Disagree with this. Vs the Spurs the two big culprits are KD and Thompson. I say any injury to their top 3 ulopens the doors for almost every playoff team in the west especially the Rockets and Spurs. We have the experience, veterans, length, and, depth/versatility especially now that mcGee is gone. I think DeMarcus is a huge question mark how he will fit especially since he will only be back near the midway point and plays completely different to what they were used to.
    I agree on DeMarcu. If it took Gay two years to feel good, I doubt a bigman putting his full weight on his ankle -a lot more weight than a perimeter player like Rudy- could play at his previous good level just in the first year post-injury.

  25. #125
    Believe. Kobe'sAchilles's Avatar
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    I fully expect the starting line up to change after or during the rodeo road trip and that will be interesting. I dont know why but I expect Derrick white to start at 2 guard which would make DDR slide to 3. Also I think everyone wants big Poeltl the starting 5 by playoff time.

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