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  1. #76
    Veteran Arcadian's Avatar
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    brady being the superior player despite being less talented shouldn't be all that controversial. we see that in all kinds of sports. duncan was far from the most talented PF the league had ever seen, but is undoubtedly the best. rodger's arm talent and mobility lets him do some things that brady cant, and some of rodgers' biggest moments are a result of his absurd arm. but he never put it together as consistently as brady. making 9-10 consecutive smart, accurate throws trumps making 3-4 jaw-dropping throws followed by taking some bad sacks and missed opportunities
    One could argue that intelligence/accuracy is itself a talent. I'm not a fan of the talent/greatness distinction, because whatever variables make someone the "best" can also be considered talents.

  2. #77
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    One could argue that intelligence/accuracy is itself a talent. I'm not a fan of the talent/greatness distinction, because whatever variables make someone the "best" can also be considered talents.
    true, and it depends on how you define talent. i usually look at physical traits that cant be significantly altered. yes, qb's can gain some arm strength with training, but a lot of it is deemed natural based on factors beyond your control like hand size, or other attributes to your muscle/tendon structure.

    so things like arm strength/mobility, athleticism are what i usually refer to. any easy example in basketball is russell westbrook.

  3. #78
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    true, and it depends on how you define talent. i usually look at physical traits that cant be significantly altered. yes, qb's can gain some arm strength with training, but a lot of it is deemed natural based on factors beyond your control like hand size, or other attributes to your muscle/tendon structure.

    so things like arm strength/mobility, athleticism are what i usually refer to. any easy example in basketball is russell westbrook.
    One thing I noticed over the years is that US sports fans tend to relate "talent" more to athletic traits than actual skills.

    That's why a guy like Westbrook is considered more "talented" than a guy that doesn't jump as high or run as fast but can pretty much do anything else better.

  4. #79
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    One thing I noticed over the years is that US sports fans tend to relate "talent" more to athletic traits than actual skills.

    That's why a guy like Westbrook is considered more "talented" than a guy that doesn't jump as high or run as fast but can pretty much do anything else better.
    its an arbitrary term... but those are the two things i distinguish, skill from what i call "talent"

    its an imperfect system (i dont consider gerald green an elite talent)

  5. #80
    Celibacy for life Mark Celibate's Avatar
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    One thing I noticed over the years is that US sports fans tend to relate "talent" more to athletic traits than actual skills.

    That's why a guy like Westbrook is considered more "talented" than a guy that doesn't jump as high or run as fast but can pretty much do anything else better.
    It's a combination of both. Talent is basically the measure of a natural ap ude/potential to be good at something. Athleticism is a factor into that equation for obvious reasons, but so is skill-level. But what makes someone the "best" is the consistency. For example, guys like JR Smith, Brandon Roy, Rudy Gay, etc. you would call "talented" because they have both the physical ability and skillset to take over a game every once in awhile. But the Kobe Bryants and Kevin Durants of the world can do it on a nightly basis

  6. #81
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    its an arbitrary term... but those are the two things i distinguish, skill from what i call "talent"

    its an imperfect system (i dont consider gerald green an elite talent)
    Maybe not as an "elite talent" but many regard him as a "wasted talent" just because he can jump and run.

  7. #82
    Happy New Decade! Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    brady being the superior player despite being less talented shouldn't be all that controversial. we see that in all kinds of sports. duncan was far from the most talented PF the league had ever seen, but is undoubtedly the best. rodger's arm talent and mobility lets him do some things that brady cant, and some of rodgers' biggest moments are a result of his absurd arm. but he never put it together as consistently as brady. making 9-10 consecutive smart, accurate throws trumps making 3-4 jaw-dropping throws followed by taking some bad sacks and missed opportunities
    In the first quarter of last night's championship game, he missed 2 golden opportunities that may have changed the game entirely. Both on 3rd down. First with the score 0-0 from near midfield, he missed a wide open Jimmy Graham up the middle which would have been an 8-10 yard gain and an easy first down, instead throwing to the back in the flat who immediately got stopped and they had to punt. The second time they were down 0-7 but driving and it was 3rd and medium and he missed the back running a slant and open for the first down but instead chose to hold it too long and took the sack and they had to punt again.

  8. #83
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    It's a combination of both. Talent is basically the measure of a natural ap ude/potential to be good at something. Athleticism is a factor into that equation for obvious reasons, but so is skill-level. But what makes someone the "best" is the consistency. For example, guys like JR Smith, Brandon Roy, Rudy Gay, etc. you would call "talented" because they have both the physical ability and skillset to take over a game every once in awhile. But the Kobe Bryants and Kevin Durants of the world can do it on a nightly basis
    Yeah, I totally agree. And that's something I learned following US sports. Just as US fans tend to overvalue athletic traits, the rest of the World underates them.

    This is clearly a soccer thing where the "talented guys" are the ones that can do things with the ball that the others can't, no matter if they are fast or not; while the role players are the ones that run, jump and push people around. As if a player didn't need athleticism to do those things with the ball that others can't.

  9. #84
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    In the first quarter of last night's championship game, he missed 2 golden opportunities that may have changed the game entirely. Both on 3rd down. First with the score 0-0 from near midfield, he missed a wide open Jimmy Graham up the middle which would have been an 8-10 yard gain and an easy first down, instead throwing to the back in the flat who immediately got stopped and they had to punt. The second time they were down 0-7 but driving and it was 3rd and medium and he missed the back running a slant and open for the first down but instead chose to hold it too long and took the sack and they had to punt again.
    That's the biggest issue I have with Rodgers from all the games I've seen of him: many times he tends to keep the ball longer than needed.

    The two greats of our generation, Brady and Manning, never held to the ball for more than they needed. If they got sacked it was because there was no escaping that sack.

    Funnily enough, this holding of the ball is probably what awed so people during his prime when he could get away with it. Just like Mahomes is doing now.

  10. #85
    Happy New Decade! Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    That's the biggest issue I have with Rodgers from all the games I've seen of him: many times he tends to keep the ball longer than needed.

    The two greats of our generation, Brady and Manning, never held to the ball for more than they needed. If they got sacked it was because there was no escaping that sack.

    Funnily enough, this holding of the ball is probably what awed so people during his prime when he could get away with it. Just like Mahomes is doing now.
    & they weren't fast or agile enough to get out of it

  11. #86
    Fun Fact of The Day: The GOAT Aaron Rodgers is 1-3 against Colin Kaepernick in his career.

  12. #87
    Happy New Decade! Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Fun Fact of The Day: The GOAT Aaron Rodgers is 1-3 against Colin Kaepernick in his career.
    1-4

    and the "1" was in 2015 when SF was in complete rebuild mode.

  13. #88
    1-4

    and the "1" was in 2015 when SF was in complete rebuild mode.
    Kaepernick's big contract was primarily a product of his performances against Green Bay. Kaep would be a nobody without the Packers lol.

  14. #89
    Happy New Decade! Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Kaepernick's big contract was primarily a product of his performances against Green Bay. Kaep would be a nobody without the Packers lol.
    Kaepernick was a quality dual threat QB, basically a poor man's Mahomes of today, but his ego, bad at ude and ty viewpoints got squarely in the way.

    The 49ers success was largely due to the great OLine (with the same left tackle as now), Gore, DLine and LBs. Kaep did his part for sure, but he had a lot of help.

  15. #90
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Kaepernick was a quality dual threat QB, basically a poor man's Mahomes of today, but his ego, bad at ude and ty viewpoints got squarely in the way.

    The 49ers success was largely due to the great OLine (with the same left tackle as now), Gore, DLine and LBs. Kaep did his part for sure, but he had a lot of help.
    He struggled with accuracy especially short routes which is so important in today's NFL

    2013 divisional road win @ Carolina was a strong victory. He played well.

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