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  1. #76
    Veteran Arcadian's Avatar
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    brady being the superior player despite being less talented shouldn't be all that controversial. we see that in all kinds of sports. duncan was far from the most talented PF the league had ever seen, but is undoubtedly the best. rodger's arm talent and mobility lets him do some things that brady cant, and some of rodgers' biggest moments are a result of his absurd arm. but he never put it together as consistently as brady. making 9-10 consecutive smart, accurate throws trumps making 3-4 jaw-dropping throws followed by taking some bad sacks and missed opportunities
    One could argue that intelligence/accuracy is itself a talent. I'm not a fan of the talent/greatness distinction, because whatever variables make someone the "best" can also be considered talents.

  2. #77
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    One could argue that intelligence/accuracy is itself a talent. I'm not a fan of the talent/greatness distinction, because whatever variables make someone the "best" can also be considered talents.
    true, and it depends on how you define talent. i usually look at physical traits that cant be significantly altered. yes, qb's can gain some arm strength with training, but a lot of it is deemed natural based on factors beyond your control like hand size, or other attributes to your muscle/tendon structure.

    so things like arm strength/mobility, athleticism are what i usually refer to. any easy example in basketball is russell westbrook.

  3. #78
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    true, and it depends on how you define talent. i usually look at physical traits that cant be significantly altered. yes, qb's can gain some arm strength with training, but a lot of it is deemed natural based on factors beyond your control like hand size, or other attributes to your muscle/tendon structure.

    so things like arm strength/mobility, athleticism are what i usually refer to. any easy example in basketball is russell westbrook.
    One thing I noticed over the years is that US sports fans tend to relate "talent" more to athletic traits than actual skills.

    That's why a guy like Westbrook is considered more "talented" than a guy that doesn't jump as high or run as fast but can pretty much do anything else better.

  4. #79
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    One thing I noticed over the years is that US sports fans tend to relate "talent" more to athletic traits than actual skills.

    That's why a guy like Westbrook is considered more "talented" than a guy that doesn't jump as high or run as fast but can pretty much do anything else better.
    its an arbitrary term... but those are the two things i distinguish, skill from what i call "talent"

    its an imperfect system (i dont consider gerald green an elite talent)

  5. #80
    faggy opinion + certainty Mark Celibate's Avatar
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    One thing I noticed over the years is that US sports fans tend to relate "talent" more to athletic traits than actual skills.

    That's why a guy like Westbrook is considered more "talented" than a guy that doesn't jump as high or run as fast but can pretty much do anything else better.
    It's a combination of both. Talent is basically the measure of a natural ap ude/potential to be good at something. Athleticism is a factor into that equation for obvious reasons, but so is skill-level. But what makes someone the "best" is the consistency. For example, guys like JR Smith, Brandon Roy, Rudy Gay, etc. you would call "talented" because they have both the physical ability and skillset to take over a game every once in awhile. But the Kobe Bryants and Kevin Durants of the world can do it on a nightly basis

  6. #81
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    its an arbitrary term... but those are the two things i distinguish, skill from what i call "talent"

    its an imperfect system (i dont consider gerald green an elite talent)
    Maybe not as an "elite talent" but many regard him as a "wasted talent" just because he can jump and run.

  7. #82
    44 / 50 Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    brady being the superior player despite being less talented shouldn't be all that controversial. we see that in all kinds of sports. duncan was far from the most talented PF the league had ever seen, but is undoubtedly the best. rodger's arm talent and mobility lets him do some things that brady cant, and some of rodgers' biggest moments are a result of his absurd arm. but he never put it together as consistently as brady. making 9-10 consecutive smart, accurate throws trumps making 3-4 jaw-dropping throws followed by taking some bad sacks and missed opportunities
    In the first quarter of last night's championship game, he missed 2 golden opportunities that may have changed the game entirely. Both on 3rd down. First with the score 0-0 from near midfield, he missed a wide open Jimmy Graham up the middle which would have been an 8-10 yard gain and an easy first down, instead throwing to the back in the flat who immediately got stopped and they had to punt. The second time they were down 0-7 but driving and it was 3rd and medium and he missed the back running a slant and open for the first down but instead chose to hold it too long and took the sack and they had to punt again.

  8. #83
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    It's a combination of both. Talent is basically the measure of a natural ap ude/potential to be good at something. Athleticism is a factor into that equation for obvious reasons, but so is skill-level. But what makes someone the "best" is the consistency. For example, guys like JR Smith, Brandon Roy, Rudy Gay, etc. you would call "talented" because they have both the physical ability and skillset to take over a game every once in awhile. But the Kobe Bryants and Kevin Durants of the world can do it on a nightly basis
    Yeah, I totally agree. And that's something I learned following US sports. Just as US fans tend to overvalue athletic traits, the rest of the World underates them.

    This is clearly a soccer thing where the "talented guys" are the ones that can do things with the ball that the others can't, no matter if they are fast or not; while the role players are the ones that run, jump and push people around. As if a player didn't need athleticism to do those things with the ball that others can't.

  9. #84
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    In the first quarter of last night's championship game, he missed 2 golden opportunities that may have changed the game entirely. Both on 3rd down. First with the score 0-0 from near midfield, he missed a wide open Jimmy Graham up the middle which would have been an 8-10 yard gain and an easy first down, instead throwing to the back in the flat who immediately got stopped and they had to punt. The second time they were down 0-7 but driving and it was 3rd and medium and he missed the back running a slant and open for the first down but instead chose to hold it too long and took the sack and they had to punt again.
    That's the biggest issue I have with Rodgers from all the games I've seen of him: many times he tends to keep the ball longer than needed.

    The two greats of our generation, Brady and Manning, never held to the ball for more than they needed. If they got sacked it was because there was no escaping that sack.

    Funnily enough, this holding of the ball is probably what awed so people during his prime when he could get away with it. Just like Mahomes is doing now.

  10. #85
    44 / 50 Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    That's the biggest issue I have with Rodgers from all the games I've seen of him: many times he tends to keep the ball longer than needed.

    The two greats of our generation, Brady and Manning, never held to the ball for more than they needed. If they got sacked it was because there was no escaping that sack.

    Funnily enough, this holding of the ball is probably what awed so people during his prime when he could get away with it. Just like Mahomes is doing now.
    & they weren't fast or agile enough to get out of it

  11. #86
    Fun Fact of The Day: The GOAT Aaron Rodgers is 1-3 against Colin Kaepernick in his career.

  12. #87
    44 / 50 Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Fun Fact of The Day: The GOAT Aaron Rodgers is 1-3 against Colin Kaepernick in his career.
    1-4

    and the "1" was in 2015 when SF was in complete rebuild mode.

  13. #88
    1-4

    and the "1" was in 2015 when SF was in complete rebuild mode.
    Kaepernick's big contract was primarily a product of his performances against Green Bay. Kaep would be a nobody without the Packers lol.

  14. #89
    44 / 50 Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Kaepernick's big contract was primarily a product of his performances against Green Bay. Kaep would be a nobody without the Packers lol.
    Kaepernick was a quality dual threat QB, basically a poor man's Mahomes of today, but his ego, bad at ude and ty viewpoints got squarely in the way.

    The 49ers success was largely due to the great OLine (with the same left tackle as now), Gore, DLine and LBs. Kaep did his part for sure, but he had a lot of help.

  15. #90
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Kaepernick was a quality dual threat QB, basically a poor man's Mahomes of today, but his ego, bad at ude and ty viewpoints got squarely in the way.

    The 49ers success was largely due to the great OLine (with the same left tackle as now), Gore, DLine and LBs. Kaep did his part for sure, but he had a lot of help.
    He struggled with accuracy especially short routes which is so important in today's NFL

    2013 divisional road win @ Carolina was a strong victory. He played well.

  16. #91
    This article makes a pretty good pro-Rodgers case (https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2021/4...buzz-nfl-draft).

    Bullet points:

    *Packers supposedly promised to trade him this offseason (doubt it tbh but huge if true)

    *Love only offensive player they have drafted in round 1 since 2012 (lol didnt realize that. embarrassing for their FO)

    *Bucs drafted two impact rookies in the first two rounds who helped them all year including against us. Meanwhile Packers drafted two third stringers.

    *Kevin King was atrocious in NFC champ game and even if ur not drafting receiver in R1 could have picked anyone to do better (the anyone part i added cuz he sucked a huge fat one in that game). They drafted Stokes this year but unfortunately he is unable to play in the 2020 NFC Championship game at this point.

    *They went for a field goal on third down (still can't believe it)

    *Didnt tell Rodgers the third down was their last play and would kick next play (meh)

    *Whereas Rodgers was expected to be #1 overall pick in 2005 so getting him at 24 was almost a can't pass up this star potential deal not someone they sought out in 2020 they traded up for Love who was a second round pick to most so they went out of their way to get his replacement.

    *Kept McCarthy as coach too long (agreed 100%)

    *They went for a field goal on third down (really still can't believe it)

    *When Bucs got Brady immediately went crazy adding talent around him (AB, Gronk, first round left tackle, etc) even though already had playmakers on the roster in Goodwin and Evans as opposed to lack of urgency by GB in maxing Rodgers later years.

    *Entering a staring contest with a guy who cut off his parents and returned the christmas gifts they sent him unopened not bright.

    *They went for a field goal on third down (really, really, really still can't believe it).

  17. #92
    Also, disappointed a thread with this derped of a le was not bumped after this year's NFC Championship game (lol OP)

  18. #93
    Terrah Bradshaw doing the self aggrandize with his spouting what a brave, uncomplaining soul he was when Pittsburg and Chuck Knoll began drafting to replace him.

    Yahoo sports or one of the sites did a "What really happened?" recall. Bradshaw was indeed much more of a then Rodgers is being. Albeit Bradshaw did not say trade me.

  19. #94
    *They went for a field goal on third down (really, really, really still can't believe it).
    All good points on your post. But the field goal and the defense final play before halftime.
    I mean FFS that is making your QBs job so much more difficult.

  20. #95
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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