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  1. #276
    5 is real faggy! Mikeanaro's Avatar
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    Yes! That is so funny! (End Sarcasm)

    In case you didn't notice,cause you didn't obviously,those are highlights from the 2016/17 season.Know what that means? Ding,ding,ding,that's right Mike! His rookie season! In a Gregg Popovich team! That's why there are scrubs in there!

    Just popping up like a fart,without even following the conversation is not a good way to take part between arguments,friend.

    The highlights are there to show that Dejounte Murray has an elite skill on defense.NOT in comparison to White.NOT to take something away from Derrick.
    NOT to drool and say "OMFG he is SOOOOO good".

    The fact that Derrick White is an overall better basketball player than Murray,in 2019,is undeniable.The fact that he is better as a Point Guard,is undeniable.
    If people want to construct arguments pro D.White against other people advocating that Murray is better,be my guest,it's healthy. Unnecessary,but healthy.

    But for people to feel the need to support their argument by spewing inconsistencies,fake facts,bringing down a player of their team,denying him talents that even they,on their own,know he has..it's asinine. It's wrong.
    Why you assume I wasnt aware of that?
    Why you play millennial smart using straw man sentences?

    He is not elite, having a couple of selected plays in a season dont say at all, specially when Spurs blew a 25 point lead, where was D-connoisseur there using his superior height to stop small Curry?
    Nothing spectacular happened during the season vs any relevant player, just a giant hype machine.

    Forget about White, it is just that Murray is a y that has proven nothing yet, he doesnt even have a jumper in today´s nba, do you think he is Bowen? he had a full season last year, what happened?
    He is made to score and thats it, are you expecting him to grab rebounds with his height and position? Block Ibaka/Anteto on a regular basis?

    But for people to feel the need to support their argument by spewing inconsistencies,fake facts,bringing down a player of their team,denying him talents that even they,on their own,know he has..it's asinine. It's wrong.


    And thats what you are doing, making conclusions out of nowhere, scrub already played 1 season and a half, no jumper/3 pointer, no passing/playmaking, no courtvision, thats almost as useful as DeJuan Blair playing Center. It´s very wrong.

  2. #277
    Believe.
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    Maybe Murray can become a 3nD guy and play SF. His 3 point shot looks to be improving.

  3. #278
    "The ball don't lie." dbestpro's Avatar
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    Like many, I am excited about the possibility of White and Murray on the floor at the same time and the defensive havoc they will create. In today's NBA, the PG, SG, SF, PF, C is over. We will run three guards two wings and a big.
    Last edited by dbestpro; 03-07-2019 at 07:43 PM.

  4. #279
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
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    fathead was a good defender... that's not really a slight. #3 in DRPM among small forwards this year behind covington and paul george. was #2 the two years before that, #6 the year before that...
    I agree about Fathead. I always liked him. I'm just saying, I would never call him a terror in the passing lanes because of his spg.

  5. #280
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I agree about Fathead. I always liked him. I'm just saying, I would never call him a terror in the passing lanes because of his spg.
    that was dejounte's strength, though. his man to man defense was never anything special except for bursts here and there. he had most of his impact off the ball being a mini kawhi

  6. #281
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
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    Don't let him of the hook.

    That's why he brought up Fathead.He knows Murray is an elite defender,in a different way than White,and in his stubborn way to enhance his argument of White>>>Murray he is disregarding facts about the other kid.

    Once he sees that,at some point,he is gonna have to admit that Murray is a good defender as well,he tries to bring Fathead in the convo to sidetrack it.
    Murray is not an elite defender.

    Simple. I think Murray is better but if it’s so obvious that White should be the starting PG then Pop will see that as well. Right? But if White is not starting at PG next year, maybe you are plain wrong and are simply a bad judge of talent... or are a fanboy yourself of White. I like both players btw.
    Murray is better based on what exactly? I could understand you saying you think he has a higher ceiling and will end up being better (personally disagree but that's beside the point), but to say he is currently better is just absurd.

  7. #282
    Banned!!! GusT15's Avatar
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    Why you assume I wasnt aware of that?
    Why you play millennial smart using straw man sentences?

    He is not elite, having a couple of selected plays in a season dont say at all, specially when Spurs blew a 25 point lead, where was D-connoisseur there using his superior height to stop small Curry?
    Nothing spectacular happened during the season vs any relevant player, just a giant hype machine.

    Forget about White, it is just that Murray is a y that has proven nothing yet, he doesnt even have a jumper in today´s nba, do you think he is Bowen? he had a full season last year, what happened?
    He is made to score and thats it, are you expecting him to grab rebounds with his height and position? Block Ibaka/Anteto on a regular basis?

    But for people to feel the need to support their argument by spewing inconsistencies,fake facts,bringing down a player of their team,denying him talents that even they,on their own,know he has..it's asinine. It's wrong.


    And thats what you are doing, making conclusions out of nowhere, scrub already played 1 season and a half, no jumper/3 pointer, no passing/playmaking, no courtvision, thats almost as useful as DeJuan Blair playing Center. It´s very wrong.
    I didn't use highlights to prove ,it was to remind FkLA,of Murray's length and defensive awareness in the passing lanes even in his rookie year.
    That's how you value projects,you take their physical attributes,the eye test,and then measuring their work ethic you predict a "ceiling" for them.

    I wasn't expecting a 20 year old to do against Curry,and i don't think anyone did as well.
    I was expecting a 21 year old Murray to slow Curry down last year,with no meaning of course,but still,give him trouble,but Curry wasn't playing in the first round.

    I am in no way overhyping him! Less than 2 weeks ago i was saying on this board that Brogdon would make the Spurs so much better right now if he was drafted instead of Murray!

    He IS a good defender,and if he has the work ethic/health,he's gonna be an amazing defender! He is tall,he has wingspan,he is quick,he can jump,he is aware on defense and he is playing point! Those are incredible characteristics for a guard on defense!

    He also is BAD on offense! He dribbles too high,gets careless with the ball,does not play the p&r as he should,he doesn't read the court,and his shooting needs A LOT of work!

    I dunno about the character flaws,you mention,i know he has a gf and social media presence.If there are character issues,they will come to the surface at some point,but i don't know about them as i'm typing.

    I expect him to get healthy and work on his game.I expect him to become an even better defender than he was and find a role on offense.He is still a project so that's what i have! Expectations! If he doesn't reach/fulfill those expectations,well,then, .

    But until we see what he becomes,after him showing so many positive elements as a player,i will be patient,and always look things with objectivity.

  8. #283
    Banned!!! GusT15's Avatar
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    Like many, I am excited about the possibility of White and Murray on the floor at the same time and the defensive havoc they will create. In today's NBA, the PG, SG, SF, PF, C is over. We will run three guards two wings and a big.
    3 guards,two wings and a big? At the same time? 6 man line up?

  9. #284
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
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    that was dejounte's strength, though. his man to man defense was never anything special except for bursts here and there. he had most of his impact off the ball being a mini kawhi
    Was it really that great though? It being his strength or better than his on ball defense doesn't necessarily mean he was a terror/mini nephew. I just think his all-defense nod (which was surprising af honestly) has really made him overrated on that end. There's way too much hyperbole about his defense, imo.

  10. #285
    Believe. GAustex's Avatar
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    3 guards,two wings and a big? At the same time? 6 man line up?
    New math

  11. #286
    Veteran r0drig0lac's Avatar
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    3 guards,two wings and a big? At the same time? 6 man line up?
    82-0

  12. #287
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
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    Maybe Murray can become a 3nD guy and play SF. His 3 point shot looks to be improving.
    People are way too hopeful about this. It'd be great for the team if he actually becomes a good 3PT shooter but it's no guarantee just because he posts instagram videos of him "grinding". Chip doesn't turn every single player into nephew. Parker never became more than a low volume 3PT shooter. Kyle never learned to shoot.

  13. #288
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    He IS a good defender,and if he has the work ethic/health,he's gonna be an amazing defender! He is tall,he has wingspan,he is quick,he can jump,he is aware on defense and he is playing point! Those are incredible characteristics for a guard on defense!

    He also is BAD on offense! He dribbles too high,gets careless with the ball,does not play the p&r as he should,he doesn't read the court,and his shooting needs A LOT of work!

    I understand these criticisms, and the biggest problem I had with Murray was that he was turnover prone in college, in the Summer league, and in his rookie season-- but in year 2 he improved in this category significantly. In his rookie year, he averaged 4.2 TO per 36 min., and in his 2nd year, he cut that to 2.8 TO per 36 min. Comparing those two seasons, his rebound rate doubled, and his steal rate doubled. He was working hard on shooting the 3 this past summer before he got hurt, so he was focusing on the right things as far as I can tell. His ORtg/DRtg went from 91/106 to 99/101, so again that shows definite improvement on both sides of the court. If he shows similar improvement next year, then I think he'll be an impact player for sure whose offense doesn't negate his defense. And I especially like the idea of him & White sharing the backcourt and both being combo guards.

    https://www.basketball-reference.com...murrade01.html

  14. #289
    Believe.
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    Murray is not an elite defender.



    Murray is better based on what exactly? I could understand you saying you think he has a higher ceiling and will end up being better (personally disagree but that's beside the point), but to say he is currently better is just absurd.
    Murray is better defensively and numbers back me up when you look at what Murray accomplished last year. He had an all NBA defensive performance and was ranked 1st in Defense Real Plus-Minus and was the only PG in the top 25. That includes on and off ball, steals, rebounds & deflections. The Spurs ranked in the top 5 in defense primarily because of Murray's impact. He plays the position with better pace and incredible speed. He has better intangibles when it comes to leadership, toughness and an overall command of the team. Just because you value a better jump shot as the only important skill set doesn't make White a player better. As I said, Murray will be our starting PG next year whether you agree or not.

  15. #290
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    This thread has turned into bait for dung beetles.
    You guys just keep rolling the same around.


  16. #291
    Banned!!! GusT15's Avatar
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    This thread has turned into bait for dung beetles.
    You guys just keep rolling the same around.

    Mind you,this is just with one actual playing year for Murray and half of a playing year for White.

    It's impressive how this forum made it through with more than a decade of such an argument but on steroids,night in and night out,on a daily basis...

    Well,4 championships during the argument helped tbh

  17. #292
    5 is real faggy! Mikeanaro's Avatar
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    Murray is better defensively and numbers back me up when you look at what Murray accomplished last year. He had an all NBA defensive performance and was ranked 1st in Defense Real Plus-Minus and was the only PG in the top 25. That includes on and off ball, steals, rebounds & deflections. The Spurs ranked in the top 5 in defense primarily because of Murray's impact. He plays the position with better pace and incredible speed. He has better intangibles when it comes to leadership, toughness and an overall command of the team. Just because you value a better jump shot as the only important skill set doesn't make White a player better. As I said, Murray will be our starting PG next year whether you agree or not.
    I understand you like him but come on, what leadership does he have exactly? he was below Parker Manu Aldridge Kawhi... also toughness and command of the team, thats too much.

  18. #293
    Believe. GAustex's Avatar
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    I think White has shown more but hope for both to get better and a brighter future
    I did like that time LMA got in a scrap and Pop came out to calm LMA down and Murray pushed Pop away saying “I got the big fellow”

  19. #294
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
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    Murray is better defensively and numbers back me up when you look at what Murray accomplished last year. He had an all NBA defensive performance and was ranked 1st in Defense Real Plus-Minus and was the only PG in the top 25. That includes on and off ball, steals, rebounds & deflections. The Spurs ranked in the top 5 in defense primarily because of Murray's impact. He plays the position with better pace and incredible speed. He has better intangibles when it comes to leadership, toughness and an overall command of the team. Just because you value a better jump shot as the only important skill set doesn't make White a player better. As I said, Murray will be our starting PG next year whether you agree or not.
    Is that you, Jilly?

  20. #295
    Believe.
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    It’s pretty obvious that White is currently the greater prospect over Murray. White is more of a complete offensive player with equal impact on the defensive end. However, White can surely play the two guard and allow Murray to play the one. Both on the court will cause havoc on the defensive end. Spurs are in a good posistion considering both these picks were late 1st rounders. RC has two first rounders this year....

  21. #296
    Believe. GAustex's Avatar
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    It’s pretty obvious that White is currently the greater prospect over Murray. White is more of a complete offensive player with equal impact on the defensive end. However, White can surely play the two guard and allow Murray to play the one. Both on the court will cause havoc on the defensive end. Spurs are in a good posistion considering both these picks were late 1st rounders. RC has two first rounders this year....
    Flip DDR maybe Patty and the Toronto pick for a couple of 6’ 7” deadeyes and there you go

  22. #297
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
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    Reading posts of people suggesting that White's defense is equal or inferior to Murray's or that he should relinquish the starting PG spot is infuriating. It's not just one crazy poster either, it's an opinion held by many. It's amazing how much being a self-promoting, instagram baller influences the masses' opinion of you.

  23. #298
    Veteran SpursDynasty85's Avatar
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    Reading posts of people suggesting that White's defense is equal or inferior to Murray's or that he should relinquish the starting PG spot is infuriating. It's not just one crazy poster either, it's an opinion held by many. It's amazing how much being a self-promoting, instagram baller influences the masses' opinion of you.
    Why is it infuriating to think White can play sg and play alongside Murray? Who said White cant create like a Paul George, a Victor Oladipo, or a Donovan Mitc ? I agree his on the ball defense is better than Murray but Murray's rebounding and off the ball hands are an incredible asset. Sorry if I'm bugging up the wrong tree. I havent read many of your posts but we should be salivating that White and Murray can compliment each other really well and be our starting backcourt for the mext 5 to 7 years.

  24. #299
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Except the post DAF quoted was from early November but isn't that how this works? Guy has a great game, thread gets bumped, people get called out, player has a few sub par performances, thread disappears. I mean, there were plenty of people that went on record in various threads questioning White's offensive abillities but early in the season but he looks like he can hold his own on offense. There were others in yesterday's game thread saying White is better than Ginobili (LMFAO).

    As it pertains to this thread, White might be the better all around player but based on defensive metrics, Murray was undeniably the better defender.

    White 2018-19 DRPM 1.67
    Murray 2017-18 DRPM 3.60

    And if Murray finds a jumpshot, he could be every bit as good as White.
    You said mine was a knee jerk reaction, I was just proving you it wasn't. I knew White was going to be solid all season long.

  25. #300
    5 is real faggy! Mikeanaro's Avatar
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    Reading posts of people suggesting that White's defense is equal or inferior to Murray's or that he should relinquish the starting PG spot is infuriating. It's not just one crazy poster either, it's an opinion held by many. It's amazing how much being a self-promoting, instagram baller influences the masses' opinion of you.
    Baby T-Mac.

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