Russell Wilson

[JohnnyZ]

^ Solid troll

Find a QB who did it better their first seven seasons. Come on guy....who?

I keep tossing that out and nobody ever comes up with the guy who did it better in their first seven seasons. Why?

[Bad Takes]

Take a few minutes and Google their career stats. When it comes to ind stats it's all Russell Wilson, not really all that close.

In his first seven seasons the best passer rating Brady ever had was a 92.6, six times Wilson had something better than that and a 110.1 his best. Brady sat on a bench, Wilson came right in and took over.

Come on guy actually check out the stats.


There is no QB who did it better than Wilson if talking the stats, winning, records, playoff success, rushing combined than Wilson in their first seven seasons.

o old friend, I never get tired of seeing you here.

[JohnnyZ]

o old friend, I never get tired of seeing you here.

Bad Takes is that really you? Where ya been buddy?

[Bad Takes]

Bad Takes is that really you? Where ya been buddy?

What do you mean? I'm with you every time you submit a post here.

[JohnnyZ]

Google...

Joe Montana
Dan Marino
John Elway
Troy Aikman
Brett Favre
Peyton Manning
Aaron Rodgers
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Big Ben
Philip Rivers

anyone ya want, Fouts. Kelly, Unitas, Otto, etc etc

vs Russell Wilson comparing their first seven seasons. Come on who did it better?

Beat this.

100.0
101.2
95.0
110.1....led NFL
92.6
95.4
112.0

....when it comes to passer rating.

Come on who did it better?

[JohnnyZ]

What do you mean? I'm with you every time you submit a post here.

Remember how ya ...struggle? Why?

[Will Hunting]

Take a few minutes and Google their career stats. When it comes to ind stats it's all Russell Wilson, not really all that close.

In his first seven seasons the best passer rating Brady ever had was a 92.6, six times Wilson had something better than that and a 110.1 his best. Brady sat on a bench, Wilson came right in and took over.

Come on guy actually check out the stats.


There is no QB who did it better than Wilson if talking the stats, winning, records, playoff success, rushing combined than Wilson in their first seven seasons.

You’re cherry picking passer rating as if it’s the only thing that matters.

using “playoff success” as something Wilson has as an advantage over Brady in their first 7 seasons.

[Will Hunting]

What do you mean? I'm with you every time you submit a post here.

[Will Hunting]

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...ing_career.htm

according to vante’s logic, Kirk Cousins is a top 10 all time QB because of his passer rating!

[JohnnyZ]

You’re cherry picking passer rating as if it’s the only thing that matters.

using “playoff success” as something Wilson has as an advantage over Brady in their first 7 seasons.

I'm talking everything we look at in a QB.

comp%
TD/INT ratio
yards
passer rating
we can't totally ignore rushing yards
wins
playoff success

combined, the total package.

Who did it better taking all that?

[JohnnyZ]

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...ing_career.htm

according to vante’s logic, Kirk Cousins is a top 10 all time QB because of his passer rating!

Dude, nobody is talking JUST passer rating.

TD/INT ratio look at that.

Comp% look at that.

Yards.

Rushing yards look at that.

Google Tom Brady career stats, now Google Russell Wilson career stats. Check out where they were their first seven seasons. All Wilson and not even close.

YES YES and YES....nobody any better than Tom Brady. BUT....Wilson did have a better first seven seasons.

[Will Hunting]

Take a few minutes and Google their career stats. When it comes to ind stats it's all Russell Wilson, not really all that close.

In his first seven seasons the best passer rating Brady ever had was a 92.6, six times Wilson had something better than that and a 110.1 his best. Brady sat on a bench, Wilson came right in and took over.

Come on guy actually check out the stats.


There is no QB who did it better than Wilson if talking the stats, winning, records, playoff success, rushing combined than Wilson in their first seven seasons.

Dude, nobody is talking JUST passer rating.

TD/INT ratio look at that.

Comp% look at that.

Yards.

Rushing yards look at that.

Google Tom Brady career stats, now Google Russell Wilson career stats. Check out where they were their first seven seasons. All Wilson and not even close.

YES YES and YES....nobody any better than Tom Brady. BUT....Wilson did have a better first seven seasons.

I googled it. It says Wilson only won 1 superbowl and Brady won 3.

Thanks for playing though. Maybe next time.

[JohnnyZ]

I googled it. It says Wilson only won 1 superbowl and Brady won 3.

Thanks for playing though. Maybe next time.

Trent Dilfer
Jim McMahon
Doug Williams

won Superbowls

Fran Tarkenton
Warren Moon
Dan Fouts
Jim Kelly


All in the Hall of Fame didn't.

See how silly that is?

Eli Manning is better than Philip Rivers?

If you look at Brady's ind numbers his first seven seasons they pale in comparisons to Wilson's. As does everyone elses. AND....Wilson never sat on a bench.

[JohnnyZ]

All I see is a load of crap. Find me any QB who put up better numbers than Russell Wilson in their first seven seasons. Come on it should be easy, remember he;s struggling.

Who had a better first seven seasons in their career than Russel Wilson? Well?

Guy leaves the NCAA as the all time passing leader for a season, he walks right in and ties the rookie TD record. Wins a SB in his second season, almost wins another in his third season. Then starts setting NFL records. Has led the NFL with a 110.1, has led the NFL with 34 TD passes. NOBODY has ever had more 4th Q TD passes in a season. NOBODY has ever had a 4000/30/500 season but Wilson (18 yards from a second). Second all time passer rating.

That is reality.

[Will Hunting]

Trent Dilfer
Jim McMahon
Doug Williams

won Superbowls

Fran Tarkenton
Warren Moon
Dan Fouts
Jim Kelly

All in the Hall of Fame didn't.

See how silly that is?

Eli Manning is better than Philip Rivers?

If you look at Brady's ind numbers his first seven seasons they pale in comparisons to Wilson's. As does everyone elses. AND....Wilson never sat on a bench.

You're looking at stats Wilson put up in an era where the rules are historically friendly for QBs and receivers (hence why Marino's yardage record stood for decades and then was broken multiple times in recent years). Brady's first 7 seasons were in an era where defensive backs were allowed to play significantly more physical coverage and where teams didn't throw the ball nearly as much.

Go and compare Kirk Cousins' stats through his first 4 seasons as a starter to Joe Montana's stats in his first 4 seasons as a starter and Cousins has him beat in all of the categories you're referencing (TD/INT ratio, yards, passer rating). Are you saying that through 4 seasons Kirk Cousins was a better quarterback than Joe Montana?

[JohnnyZ]

You're looking at stats Wilson put up in an era where the rules are historically friendly for QBs and receivers (hence why Marino's yardage record stood for decades and then was broken multiple times in recent years). Brady's first 7 seasons were in an era where defensive backs were allowed to play significantly more physical coverage and where teams didn't throw the ball nearly as much.

Go and compare Kirk Cousins' stats through his first 4 seasons as a starter to Joe Montana's stats in his first 4 seasons as a starter and Cousins has him beat in all of the categories you're referencing (TD/INT ratio, yards, passer rating). Are you saying that through 4 seasons Kirk Cousins was a better quarterback than Joe Montana?

Why ignore what I said about SB's? Is Dilfer better than Moon?

I get the era thing, I also get the fact what Wilson is doing is far more dynamic than what anyone has done at the same stage of the career. Don;t ignore his NFL records, don't ignore his rushing yards, don't ignore his pro bowls, the fact he walked right in and took over. The guy is doing things never seen before.

I have never seen anyone as impressive as Russell Wilson starting out. If looking at records. wins, stats,

[Will Hunting]

# of defensive holding calls per season:

Pre-Wilson:
2009: 109
2010: 115
2011: 129

Last 7 years:
2012: 153
2013: 181
2014: 235
2015: 228
2016: 216
2017: 248

Wilson's "first 7 years" coincide perfectly with when the NFL more than doubled the amount of defensive holding penalties it called, which is why his stats are better than the stats of QBs like Brady/Manning/Montana/etc. Cherrypicking his "first 7 seasons" when all of the older QBs started their career in a different era and the younger QBs haven't been around long enough to put up 7 seasons worth of statistics is an intellectually dishonest argument.

There's a plethora of other young QBs who after 7 seasons under the current NFL rules will put up better numbers than Wilson has and it won't mean they're better than him. The rule changes have had such a profound impact on passing stats in the last 10 years that it's re ed to compare stats from different eras.

[Will Hunting]

Why ignore what I said about SB's? Is Dilfer better than Moon?

Dilfer won 1 superbowl in a historically weak season, Brady won 3 superbowls in 4 years. Using Trent Dilfer to try and dismiss the rings Brady has is re ed.

I get the era thing

You don't actually. You just know your argument is intellectually dishonest so you're saying you "get the era thing" to try and seem more credible as to pretend you're factoring era in when you know you aren't.

I also get the fact what Wilson is doing is far more dynamic than what anyone has done at the same stage of the career.

Now you're resorting to vague, subjective words like "dynamic" that carry no substance.

Don;t ignore his NFL records

You're saying you "get the era thing" but then in the same sentence you're bringing up records he would have never set pre-defensive holding rule changes. He's one of many QBs who have set records in the last 7 years.

don't ignore his rushing yards

The fact he has rushing yards means nothing. His team doesn't get a bonus if he rushes the ball instead of passes it, it gets moved down the field the same way rush or pass. You're trying to prop up his rushing yards because it's another intellectually dishonest argument to make over more conventional QBs like Brady, Manning or Montana.

don't ignore his pro bowls

Brady had 4 in his first 7 seasons as a starter. If Wilson makes it this year he'll have 5 in his first 7 seasons. Is the difference between 4 and 5 trips to the pro bowl (when the 5th trip hasn't even happened yet) an argument you're seriously trying to make?

the fact he walked right in and took over

In an era where QBs come in and take over as a rookie all the time. If he was drafted by a team with Drew Bledsoe playing at a pro bowl level, he wouldn't have played as a rookie.

The guy is doing things never seen before.

There are lots of QBs who have done stuff we haven't seen before in the last 5 years (how many times has Marino's single season passing yardage record been broken in the last 5 years), and it's not because QBs suddenly got way better than guys like Marino, Montana and Elway were. It's because the NFL made rule changes to create a pass heavy league with higher scoring. This is the equivalent of trying to use stats from the steroid era in baseball.

I have never seen anyone as impressive as Russell Wilson starting out. If looking at records. wins, stats,

If you're looking at wins, Brady has him ing destroyed. Russell Wilson's career regular season record is 71-35-1 and his playoff record is 8-4. Brady through 7 seasons as a starter had a career record of 86-24 and a playoff record of 14-3.

[JohnnyZ]

# of defensive holding calls per season:

Pre-Wilson:
2009: 109
2010: 115
2011: 129

Last 7 years:
2012: 153
2013: 181
2014: 235
2015: 228
2016: 216
2017: 248

Wilson's "first 7 years" coincide perfectly with when the NFL more than doubled the amount of defensive holding penalties it called, which is why his stats are better than the stats of QBs like Brady/Manning/Montana/etc. Cherrypicking his "first 7 seasons" when all of the older QBs started their career in a different era and the younger QBs haven't been around long enough to put up 7 seasons worth of statistics is an intellectually dishonest argument.

There's a plethora of other young QBs who after 7 seasons under the current NFL rules will put up better numbers than Wilson has and it won't mean they're better than him. The rule changes have had such a profound impact on passing stats in the last 10 years that it's re ed to compare stats from different eras.

What's re ed is watching Russell Wilson play and everyone else and not seeing how he's without question on a par with everybody else.

So we need to ignore all those NFL records? His win/loss record? Those pro bowls?

Nobody has ever thrown more 4th Q TD passes in a season than Russell Wilson. We ignore the fact he had led the NFL in QB rating and TD's?

Forget he tied the rookie TD record?

Come on guy, if you can't see the greatness of Russell Wilson then ya don't understand the game.

Actually look at this, ok?






How many of those plays took his mobility?

[Will Hunting]

What's re ed is watching Russell Wilson play and everyone else and not seeing how he's without question on a par with everybody else.

I didn't say he wasn't. I said through 7 seasons he hasn't had the career Brady had through 7 seasons as starter. You're moving the goalposts.

So we need to ignore all those NFL records? His win/loss record? Those pro bowls?

Another strawman. I never said we need to ignore them, I said you can't objectively compare passing stats from the last 10 years against stats from other eras.

Nobody has ever thrown more 4th Q TD passes in a season than Russell Wilson.

More random trivia you're nitpicking at. If we want to harp on random facts, care to share what Wilson's record is when the other team scores more than 25 points?

We ignore the fact he had led the NFL in QB rating and TD's?

He led the NFL in passer rating for 1 season, something Nick Foles did 2 years earlier. It's a flawed statistic that favors QBs who get to make conservative decisions in a balanced offense vs. QBs who need to throw 600+ attempts every year to create offense. It does absolutely nothing to quantify usage.

Forget he tied the rookie TD record?

More random trivia. He had an unusually good rookie year at a position that typically doesn't see great production from rookies. I'll agree he had a better rookie season than Brady if that'll make you feel better.

Actually look at this, ok?

So that's your argument now, youtube highlight videos that, similar to what you do, cherrypick his strengths and ignore his weaknesses?

[JohnnyZ]

Dilfer won 1 superbowl in a historically weak season, Brady won 3 superbowls in 4 years. Using Trent Dilfer to try and dismiss the rings Brady has is re ed.


You don't actually. You just know your argument is intellectually dishonest so you're saying you "get the era thing" to try and seem more credible as to pretend you're factoring era in when you know you aren't.


Now you're resorting to vague, subjective words like "dynamic" that carry no substance.


You're saying you "get the era thing" but then in the same sentence you're bringing up records he would have never set pre-defensive holding rule changes. He's one of many QBs who have set records in the last 7 years.


The fact he has rushing yards means nothing. His team doesn't get a bonus if he rushes the ball instead of passes it, it gets moved down the field the same way rush or pass. You're trying to prop up his rushing yards because it's another intellectually dishonest argument to make over more conventional QBs like Brady, Manning or Montana.


Brady had 4 in his first 7 seasons as a starter. If Wilson makes it this year he'll have 5 in his first 7 seasons. Is the difference between 4 and 5 trips to the pro bowl (when the 5th trip hasn't even happened yet) an argument you're seriously trying to make?


In an era where QBs come in and take over as a rookie all the time. If he was drafted by a team with Drew Bledsoe playing at a pro bowl level, he wouldn't have played as a rookie.


There are lots of QBs who have done stuff we haven't seen before in the last 5 years (how many times has Marino's single season passing yardage record been broken in the last 5 years), and it's not because QBs suddenly got way better than guys like Marino, Montana and Elway were. It's because the NFL made rule changes to create a pass heavy league with higher scoring. This is the equivalent of trying to use stats from the steroid era in baseball.


If you're looking at wins, Brady has him ing destroyed. Russell Wilson's career regular season record is 71-35-1 and his playoff record is 8-4. Brady through 7 seasons as a starter had a career record of 86-24 and a playoff record of 14-3.

So with all that said, where do we put Wilson vs everyone else after seven seasons?

I don't ignore the fact Wilson did walk right in and Brady sat on a bench. And being able to run does put more stress on any defense. we don't ignore that part of his game.

Seen them all since the late 50's, I haven't seen anyone anymore impressive than Wilson at seven seasons.

[JohnnyZ]

I didn't say he wasn't. I said through 7 seasons he hasn't had the career Brady had through 7 seasons as starter. You're moving the goalposts.


Another strawman. I never said we need to ignore them, I said you can't objectively compare passing stats from the last 10 years against stats from other eras.


More random trivia you're nitpicking at. If we want to harp on random facts, care to share what Wilson's record is when the other team scores more than 25 points?


He led the NFL in passer rating for 1 season, something Nick Foles did 2 years earlier. It's a flawed statistic that favors QBs who get to make conservative decisions in a balanced offense vs. QBs who need to throw 600+ attempts every year to create offense. It does absolutely nothing to quantify usage.


More random trivia. He had an unusually good rookie year at a position that typically doesn't see great production from rookies. I'll agree he had a better rookie season than Brady if that'll make you feel better.


So that's your argument now, youtube highlight videos that, similar to what you do, cherrypick his strengths and ignore his weaknesses?

So just what do we look at then? What did Brady do better than Wilson those first seven seasons?

Check this out.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2017/1/6/...-interceptions

[JohnnyZ]

Bottom line.

Won a SB
Two SB in first three seasons
Numerous pro bowls
Numerous NFL records and firsts
Never missed a game
Has been in the MVP talk
Never sat on a bench

All that and only seven years of experience.

[AlexJones]

Tier1 : Brady/Rodgers/PManning

Tier 2: Wilson/Ben/Brees

No one that played before the passing revolution matters

[JohnnyZ]

Tier1 : Brady/Rodgers/PManning

Tier 2: Wilson/Ben/Brees

No one that played before the passing revolution matters

We never ignore winning in any era or any situation. And what others think of them.

You cannot talk the GREAT QB's and not mention Otto Graham. The with rules, whatever. he stood out and still does. Same with Joe Montana, John Unitas.

Russell Wilson has done everything it takes to be GREAT. He has the wins, he has the numbers, the records.

Brady and Rodgers sat on the bench, Peyton threw a ton of INT's starting out. Wilson simply took over and started putting up numbers right out of the gate.

Google....The Great Russell Wilson. TONS and TONS of stuff saying what I'm talking about. There is a reason for that.


Stuff like....

Greatest QB of all time: Russell Wilson - NFL Videos - NFL.com